NKD wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 02:11:

Sepharo wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 20:19:
nobody:
not the article, not the thread:
Slick: Let's frame the debate around Steam

<shocked pikachu>

I feel like Slick has one of those walls of crazy with the random article clippings and red yarn going everywhere with everything meeting at a picture of Gabe Newell in the middle.

Sometimes coincidences are too funny not to share. Right after reading this I came across this meme:

https://images.app.goo.gl/ruBr49zD2Yox6AYR6

Sepharo wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 20:19:
nobody:
not the article, not the thread:
Slick: Let's frame the debate around Steam

<shocked pikachu>

I feel like Slick has one of those walls of crazy with the random article clippings and red yarn going everywhere with everything meeting at a picture of Gabe Newell in the middle.

Maybe SE should drop the silly timed exclusivity and release simultaneously on PC and PS. Even Atlus has learned this lesson by now.

nobody:
not the article, not the thread:
Slick: Let's frame the debate around Steam

<shocked pikachu>

Slick wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 19:16:

Prez wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 13:23:

Slick wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:45:
And let's just one more time frame the debate where it lives:

1) It's okay to expect gamers to fork over $500 for a different console to play.
2) It's unacceptable to expect gamers to click on a different icon on their desktop that isn't Steam.

That might be how you frame the debate in your own mind but we already know that you aren't rational when discussing Steam. Another blatantly obvious and deliberate misrepresentation by you.

Do you actually have an argument? Or just gonna keep up the ad hominem attacks while avoiding my point?

I'd argue that gamers have long accepted the idea of console exclusives, considering where their money goes.

I'd also argue that PC gamers have largely not accepted a PC release on any storefront other than Steam, considering where their money goes. Ironically even though they'd be on the same platform (PC).

Again, if you have an argument against this pretty basic logical reasoning based on observable reality, I'd love to hear it.

Or just continue to attack me, my character, and motive while cleverly ignoring my argument or position.

I'm not attacking you. I'm sure that you are a fine fellow. But you don't have a "point" to make beyond telling everyone (for the 1000th time) how much you hate Steam. Your completely false and inelegant comparison is borderline idiocy and not even worth countering when fundamentally your rationale is so goofy. Hate Steam all you want. But your nonsensically forced equivalency isn't a point.

phinn wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 16:44:
My take on lower sales as a FF fan:

FFXVI - not a JRPG by genre, so fans of the FF series (like me) might pass. Also it was PS5 only until this week. $50 PC release is nicely priced though might get it.

FFVII Remake - while good added many pointless cutscenes and incredibly stupid whisper/fate subplot. People thought they were getting a remake of a masterpiece. Instead got 4 hours of intro content bloated into 40 hours.

FFVII Rebirth - looks better than Remake but not sure. Release on PC and I’ll buy.

Ok, good, I was ashamed I never finished up 7 remake, but it sounds like I wasn’t the only one who got tired of all the padding

Prez wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 13:23:

Slick wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:45:
And let's just one more time frame the debate where it lives:

1) It's okay to expect gamers to fork over $500 for a different console to play.
2) It's unacceptable to expect gamers to click on a different icon on their desktop that isn't Steam.

That might be how you frame the debate in your own mind but we already know that you aren't rational when discussing Steam. Another blatantly obvious and deliberate misrepresentation by you.

Do you actually have an argument? Or just gonna keep up the ad hominem attacks while avoiding my point?

I'd argue that gamers have long accepted the idea of console exclusives, considering where their money goes.

I'd also argue that PC gamers have largely not accepted a PC release on any storefront other than Steam, considering where their money goes. Ironically even though they'd be on the same platform (PC).

Again, if you have an argument against this pretty basic logical reasoning based on observable reality, I'd love to hear it.

Or just continue to attack me, my character, and motive while cleverly ignoring my argument or position.

Slick wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:43:
Well, they're not a Sony-owned studio, and yet they've been acting like it for how many decades now?

Might be time to stop taking deals and cutting out some of your most loyal fans for the FF series from the USA.

Xbox didn't exist when FF7 came out, so that's all fine and good. But it 100% touched the lives of MANY North American gamers back in '97, many of whom have gone on to support the home team by getting into the Xbox ecosystem.

These backroom exclusivity deals just harm the goodwill that NA players have had for that studio, and have subsequently fucked with their income.

FF7 Rebirth is the best game I've played in a LONG time (just finished Wukong too), and it's pathetic that it's not on Xbox.

But yet you're voting with your wallet to support Sony's exclusivity, which is their entire business model.

They learn the lessons that customers teach.

My take on lower sales as a FF fan:

FFXVI - not a JRPG by genre, so fans of the FF series (like me) might pass. Also it was PS5 only until this week. $50 PC release is nicely priced though might get it.

FFVII Remake - while good added many pointless cutscenes and incredibly stupid whisper/fate subplot. People thought they were getting a remake of a masterpiece. Instead got 4 hours of intro content bloated into 40 hours.

FFVII Rebirth - looks better than Remake but not sure. Release on PC and I’ll buy.

Square Enix has been this way forever. Everything they have ever done sold below expectations if you ask them.

Sales of Final Fantasy 16 were reported to be 3 million units in the first week by Square. Assuming a normal exponential drop in sales in ensuing months FF16 would have almost certainly sold over 4 million by conservative estimate. For a JRPG from a franchise that has been going for about 100 years by now calling that disappointing makes me wonder how ridiculous your expectations were.

Zerg wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:20:
I think SE needs to first admit that their profit expectations are unreasonable. We've seen this headline so many times where SE is stating that their IPs aren't meeting profit expectations.

Ditto - they set expectations far too high. They should set them lower, and then they can surprise investors when their sales exceeded expectations. That, or they need to work harder to drive/encourage sales.
I imagine players are just feeling tired, and the prospect of another 100 hours in FF7 world doesn't sound very engaging when they already grinded their way through Remake, and that game was padded.

Slick wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:45:
And let's just one more time frame the debate where it lives:

1) It's okay to expect gamers to fork over $500 for a different console to play.
2) It's unacceptable to expect gamers to click on a different icon on their desktop that isn't Steam.

That might be how you frame the debate in your own mind but we already know that you aren't rational when discussing Steam. Another blatantly obvious and deliberate misrepresentation by you.

Zerg wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:20:
I think SE needs to first admit that their profit expectations are unreasonable. We've seen this headline so many times where SE is stating that their IPs aren't meeting profit expectations.

I was going to say exactly this. They routinely have laughably overly optimistic expectations that can't be met, and it seems that you read this with almost all of their releases that don't make enough to fund a small country.

SomeBoredGuy wrote on Sep 18, 2024, 12:45:
It's just sort of what I'm seeing on forums, the chat rooms I go to, and from my steam friends, but I'm seeing a general tiredness of real time combat in RPGs. Especially when a game is remade and the remake is real time where the original was turn based. There's a definite swing in attitudes right now where it seems people are preferring turn based. I think to some extent, this affected sales.

Can't tell you how many times I heard people talk about how they were playing the new FF7 PC mod that makes the original FF7 4k/60fps and they called that the "real" remake. The youtubers I follow were playing and streaming that instead of Rebirth.

Then the youtubers on your feed are uncultured fools.

Rebirth is possibly the title which has obviously received more love from the developers than any other project I've ever witnessed. I work in game development, and it's astonishing the level of JOY that went into rebirth. Every nook and cranny is just stuffed to the gills with joy. It was made by people who were HAPPPY, and it shows.

I think a lot of it is getting to use UE5, which just lets the devs be devs, and not sit around all day developing tools. That and the source material is so beloved. Disc 2 of FF7 has the best shit on it.

Also, it's not really real-time combat. It's basically Dragon Age: Origins where you can pause the game at any time and plan your next move. The only change to the formula is that you have to "earn" each ATB bar, they don't just generate on their own. You do this by engaging in some VERY basic combat. But 95% of the game is you spending your ATB on action: abilities, spells, items, summons etc. You know, FF7.

And let's just one more time frame the debate where it lives:

1) It's okay to expect gamers to fork over $500 for a different console to play.
2) It's unacceptable to expect gamers to click on a different icon on their desktop that isn't Steam.

It's just sort of what I'm seeing on forums, the chat rooms I go to, and from my steam friends, but I'm seeing a general tiredness of real time combat in RPGs. Especially when a game is remade and the remake is real time where the original was turn based. There's a definite swing in attitudes right now where it seems people are preferring turn based. I think to some extent, this affected sales.

Can't tell you how many times I heard people talk about how they were playing the new FF7 PC mod that makes the original FF7 4k/60fps and they called that the "real" remake. The youtubers I follow were playing and streaming that instead of Rebirth.

Well, they're not a Sony-owned studio, and yet they've been acting like it for how many decades now?

Might be time to stop taking deals and cutting out some of your most loyal fans for the FF series from the USA.

Xbox didn't exist when FF7 came out, so that's all fine and good. But it 100% touched the lives of MANY North American gamers back in '97, many of whom have gone on to support the home team by getting into the Xbox ecosystem.

These backroom exclusivity deals just harm the goodwill that NA players have had for that studio, and have subsequently fucked with their income.

FF7 Rebirth is the best game I've played in a LONG time (just finished Wukong too), and it's pathetic that it's not on Xbox.

I think SE needs to first admit that their profit expectations are unreasonable. We've seen this headline so many times where SE is stating that their IPs aren't meeting profit expectations.