Here is my steps for a clean Windows 11 install which I did for 24H2. (Got 0-20% better gaming perf on my 5800X than I ever tested on older Win10/11 builds, depending on game of course):

• Download latest Win11 image from MS website and clean install it, enter your account, etc. I dualboot Linux so take care with partition/nvme drive selection.
• On first boot, right click on taskbar, go to taskbar settings, disable the 4 junk items at the top
• Settings app, search 'core isolation' and disable as per: optimize gaming performance in Windows
• Regedit, add this key: Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Explorer DisableSearchBoxSuggestions 1
• Settings app, install all Windows updates, reboot
• Download and Install latest Intel or AMD Chipset driver, reboot
• Download and Install latest GPU driver, reboot

Done.

If you want to cover yourself a little more, pickup the free version of Macrium Reflect, or any other decent imaging utility, and image your laptop once a month. That way if something bad or fishy happens, you can roll it back to a known good image. I keep a free copy of Malwarebytes installed, but not running in the background, to do a scan if I feel something fishy might be happening.

To make that easier I use a small 128-250 GB boot partition on my PCs, and I just image that. Everything else (documents folder, all other personal folders, games) are installed on another drive(s), so the images are fairly small and rolling back to an old image won't lose any personal data, except for the few games that insist on putting game saves and settings in the APPDATA folders (although with Steam cloud sync, you'd get them all back anyway).

I image the gaming PC boot partition once a month manually, and the workstation is setup to image the boot partition once a week. Both have 4TB drives for the images. Every few months I take a 'golden' known good image and throw it in an archive folder just in case I have some long term issue I don't catch right away, because Macrium will eventually delete the oldest image to make room. Heck I keep an image for both PCs that was made right after the OS was first installed, and all drivers and basic apps installed, just to have a known clean image I can go back to if I really need to.

This comment was edited on Sep 7, 2024, 12:37.

Thanks for your comment and tips, that make me feel a lot better about my practices.

I game on a dedicated gaming PC because I have to run so much background crap on my main workstation to support my workflow, that it was interfering with my games. Also, I prefer not to update my gaming system too often to avoid issues with games, while I prefer to keep the workstation fairly up to date on sevurity patches (although I usually stay a month or two behind to keep from being screwed by a bad patch). I need Virtualization on the workstation because I use VMs.

I am logged in as a limited user on the workstation for security, but on the gaming PC I'm admin (both local users) because otherwise it's a pain to deal with some utilities I use on the gaming PC, like mouse XMouse which will nag for admin permission on startup.

On the gaming system, since that's all I use it for, I keep it as clean as possible. Defender is running, but I have core isolation, memory integrity, and virtualization turned off. I use Firefox with uBlock Origin just for browsing game tips, and downloading driver updates.

I personally don't worry too much about 90% of the security flaws announced every month because most of them require local access, or (like Spectre and Meltdown) don't really matter on anything but a server (and yes, I have the Spectre and Meltdown mitigations disabled on the gaming PC).

So, I'd be comfortable with your level of risk. Heck for a long time I never even ran any AV until Defender was baked into Windows.

Nowadays I honestly believe that your primary line of defense is your browser. Keep it up to date, use a reputable adblocker, use NoScript, or better yet, a VM, if you visit any REALLY dangerous sites, although it's a pain to manage permissions in NoScript. I do use it in Firefox in my safe browsing sandbox VM.

Yes I do visit some dangerous sites for research, and things like torrent aggregators, when I'm looking to download a TV Series or movie I can't seem to find on streaming or DVD, but I do that in a VM on the workstation for security.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Sep 7, 2024, 09:38:
Well, if you watched the whole video (and Kudos to Steve for doing all this tedious retesting), whatever MS did in 24H2, and the KB5041587 patch for 23H2, does seem to have dramatically and consistently fixed whatever the wacky problem was. So my advise to anyone concerned about gaming performance who is on Win11, and who has a Ryzen CPU, is to go ahead and install 24H2 when it officially comes out later in the year, or install the KB5041587 patch now, if you don't want to wait.

I'm still on Win10 on my gaming PC (running a Ryzen 5800X3D), and will wait to see if, as he mentioned, they do release this patch for Win10. If they don't, I may consider upgrading it to Win11 just to see if there's any performance improvement for me.

I got a question for you or BoP.
First off, I am the only one who uses my gaming computer. It has a simple password on the login and uses a local account. I login as administrator. I update everything regularly includking apps, browsers etc (Windows update is currently set to only give me security updates)
I don't do the stupid shit that my customers do or try to do.

If I am correct, some of the recent security flaws in Windows (and or Intel/AMD processors) require that virtualization be enabled to make use of Virtualization-Based Security.
But if virtualization is turned off, along with disabling disabling Core Isolation Memory Integrity etc, There can be a performance increase and every little bit helps.

Here's the question.
Is it safe for me to do so. I don't need ya'll turning me into the PC security thought police.

I doubt my rinky dink 5800H and mobile 3060 would get much of a boost, but less stuff running in the background is less stuff running in the background.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Sep 7, 2024, 09:43:

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 6, 2024, 15:31:
You wanna know the fun part about the new "Settings" menu.
If you get more than a layer or two deep it opens open the Control Panel window for that function.
Plus. settings still doesn't do half of what the original Control Panel functions did.
Windows 11, dumbing down by obfuscation.

Open Shell for the win. I have always had Open Shell configured to give me a link to both Settings and the Control Panel in the Start menu.

I have Open Shell on one system and Start11 and Start11v.2 (which also includes links to both Settings and the Control Panel in the Start menu) on others.
But I prefer how the Start11's handle right clicking on the start button.
When I right click on the Start menu using either one of the Start11's it opens up the same menu as would either W10 or 11, which used to allow easy access to the Control Panel. But Redmond could not allow that function and no longer includes Control Panel in that right click menu.
I don't think Open Shell opens up the W10/11 right click menu either, which I don't like.
But I guess that's neither here nor there since Microsoft has removed the Control Panel from that right click menu.

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 6, 2024, 15:31:
You wanna know the fun part about the new "Settings" menu.
If you get more than a layer or two deep it opens open the Control Panel window for that function.
Plus. settings still doesn't do half of what the original Control Panel functions did.
Windows 11, dumbing down by obfuscation.

Open Shell for the win. I have always had Open Shell configured to give me a link to both Settings and the Control Panel in the Start menu.

Well, if you watched the whole video (and Kudos to Steve for doing all this tedious retesting), whatever MS did in 24H2, and the KB5041587 patch for 23H2, does seem to have dramatically and consistently fixed whatever the wacky problem was. So my advise to anyone concerned about gaming performance who is on Win11, and who has a Ryzen CPU, is to go ahead and install 24H2 when it officially comes out later in the year, or install the KB5041587 patch now, if you don't want to wait.

I'm still on Win10 on my gaming PC (running a Ryzen 5800X3D), and will wait to see if, as he mentioned, they do release this patch for Win10. If they don't, I may consider upgrading it to Win11 just to see if there's any performance improvement for me.

You wanna know the fun part about the new "Settings" menu.
If you get more than a layer or two deep it opens open the Control Panel window for that function.
Plus. settings still doesn't do half of what the original Control Panel functions did.
Windows 11, dumbing down by obfuscation.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 6, 2024, 14:48:
The "I only see the Settings app" means, in context, that you do not see that Control Panel exists and that it is "well buried" which is demonstrably false.

It's not false, allow me to explain: I click on the start menu, and unless searching for Control Panel, it's not there. Figured it was gone by now. I see icons for WIndows Store, Settings, a bunch of installed apps, etc. but no Control Panel. Thus haven't seen it in years. The only similar app I "see" is Settings which I use occationally.

In fact, the first thing I disable on a clean Windows install is the search bar (actually disable all 4 items at the top of taskbar settings menu) because it's redundant as you can hit the windows key and search for anything this has been a feature for a long time.

phinn wrote on Sep 6, 2024, 14:36:
Never said I couldn't find it, only that I haven't seen it in years...

Really? Because your exact words are "...must be well buried. I only see the Settings app and much cleaner."

The "I only see the Settings app" means, in context, that you do not see that Control Panel exists and that it is "well buried" which is demonstrably false.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 6, 2024, 10:28:
This from a guy who couldn't find Control Panel in two steps?

<Chuckles>

Never said I couldn't find it, only that I haven't seen it in years. That's totally different. My point was there has been no reason to use it. Obviously you can always hit the start menu and type in anything that's not the point. "Knowing more" is nonsensical because you explained a problem that didn't exist.

This from a guy who couldn't find Control Panel in two steps?

<Chuckles>

Win11 24H2 solves all the issues and even sped up my aging 5800X a bit. This is looking to be a great update. People keep whining about Windows but what else is there? macOS doesn't support any kind of custom builds, doesn't support GPUs, or really anything needed for gaming like gsync/vrr/low latency modes/etc. Linux (which I dualboot) still has its own huge list of desktop related hurdles for gaming that I won't rant about here. Win10 was a dumpster fire early on, has a UI that looks so dated, and its support is over next year. Microsoft supported it longer than they should have imo.

Windows 11 24H2 is without any doubt the best option and is great on my home built PC and work laptop.

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 2024, 10:02.

Windows 2000 Professional wasn't a "home" OS, per se, either. It was intended as the step up for enterprise workstations from NT4 (thus the "Professional" moniker). It was an interim release at best since the goal Microsoft had was to get everyone, worldwide, on the unified codebase of Windows XP. Thus the differentiation between Windows XP Home and Professional.

Windows 7 was, in my opinion, the last great Windows release (as "great" as Windows can ever be) as after it, Microsoft changed "features" to be automatically opt-in instead of opt-out and made opting out ridiculously convoluted. Unfortunately, it was also marred with Microsoft's continuing insanity of "We need to have 700 SKUs for an OS".

What I find more than a little amusing is how obviously stuck Microsoft is with Windows today. All their new DE elements are stolen blatantly copied "inspired" by different Linux DEs and MacOS, as these "new" elements have been around for years elsewhere. They're also pretty damned desperate to make their OS a service instead of, you know, an actual OS that stays out of your way. We're seeing ever more unhinged behavior from them with things like Recall and Copilot, forced Microsoft accounts, and cloud bullshit. Now there is a hint out in the wild of what they want their future OS to be but, so far, they haven't had the balls to pull it off. In addition to that, they still don't have a solid click to run, sandboxed application system in place although they've been flailing around for years trying to make it happen. Let's not get started on their utterly batshit refusal to separate systemland from userland.

Before I read "Hurrr...you don't HAVE to have a Microsoft account! All you have to do is unplug from your network and drop down to a command line and...", do you understand how incredibly, absolutely fucked up that is? If Microsoft had any confidence in their offerings, they wouldn't force you to make a cloud connected account. It would be optional. But that's not the point of it, really. The point of it all is to turn you, and your system, in to a captured, eternal revenue stream. Not create a solid, standalone OS that is privacy focused, free from constant ads, and forced application installs that you have to run Powershell commands to remove. Then, of course, there's the little tidbit that they don't stay uninstalled.

I don't think Windows 12 (hey, remember when Microsoft said Windows 10 was going to be the last version of Windows ever? Good times) is going to be any better than Windows 11. In fact, I think it is going to be worse. Much worse.

Windows 11 is mostly fine. Other websites have struggled just as much to get consistent performance out of Zen 5 on Windows 11 and this is 100% on AMD who have completely botched the Zen 5 launch. German ComputerBase is a very AMD-friendly site ("AMDbase") but their editors have written some lengthy rants about the difficulties of reviewing Zen 5 CPUs in a consistent fashion.

For example, it seems like you really need to clean install the OS for certain things to be applied properly. An image will not do. It needs to be an actual install because only that will apparently trigger the correct post-install routines to activate core parking on the multi-CCD CPUs. They encountered many such oddities in their testing.

It is insane. CB were quite unamused and one of the most frequent requests by the community recently has been a Zen 5 install guide. AMD done fucked this up real good.

Aside from my Intel CPU being a degraded piece of shit and some Win 11 concerns aside (that also apply to Win 10 cuz Microshit is Microshit), I really can not complain about Win 11 at all. Fixing the context menu to work as it did in previous Windows versions was a regedit "hack" that took all of 30 seconds to apply.
I've also gotten used to the taskbar in the center in less than five minutes and the position can be changed easily still. Everything else is just like Win 10. No difference.
For big.LITTLE Intel CPUs, Win 11 is kind of a "must" anyway because Microsoft and Intel have put quite a bit of work into Win 11's scheduler for it to cooperate better with Intel's hardware scheduler (a.k.a "Thread Director"). If you want to get the best performance and efficiency out of those P and E cores then Win 11 is basically mandatory.

Simon Says wrote on Sep 5, 2024, 20:24:

The fact that the exact same methodology and configuration of a Win11 23H2 installation can either be "good" or "bad" seemingly out of luck is frankly baffling...

Win11 really is a POS.

I trust the results that Hardware Unboxed got, but this shouldn't be a thing.
I hope a Windows guru can get clones of those installs and figure out what happened.

Darks wrote on Sep 5, 2024, 22:24:
a proven fact that every other OS is good.

Proven, really? And what Windows releases count?

3.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, XP, XP64, Vista, 8, 8.1, 10, 11? I've not included NT as it was never really used on home PCs. I've run all those over the years and never had a problem. Though 8 was a misstep, it was fine with a proper start menu modded back in. People hated XP when it came out, but when Vista came out XP was the best OS ever. Vista's problems were more that it had moved to an increased security model so a lot of software didn't work as it assumed full machine level access would be available.

Why I don't like or want to install that POS OS. Its been a proven fact that every other OS is good, while 10 is really good.

You had to know that 11 was going to suck. And from what I have seen and read. My mind is not changing on 11.

The fact that the exact same methodology and configuration of a Win11 23H2 installation can either be "good" or "bad" seemingly out of luck is frankly baffling...

Win11 really is a POS.