wrlwnd wrote on Sep 2, 2024, 03:16:

jdreyer wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 15:36:
The reason the judge is threatening to shut Twitter down in Brazil is precisely because he closed the Brazilian offices. In Brazil, it's illegal to run a business unless you have a legal representative in the nation, a pretty reasonable requirement.

How is that remotely "reasonable" when it comes to online content / commerce? If I have a product and advertise it on the web, are you saying that I must have an office in Brazil to sell anything to Brazilians? That's ridiculous.

For commerce, a legal representative is often a separate entity from the manufacturer, usually a contracted service, and sometimes it's just a manufacturer's local distributor in that country. The manufacturer provides them with the information necessary to perform perform product registrations and other activities. This kind of thing is common, and at least in my field it's also done by the US, the EU and Australia. The basic idea is that you have someone to answer questions from the government, and in some respects subject to local laws.

Like, Amazon has a problem with counterfeit products and fly-by-night operations that sell goods from China and are gone a month later, and presumably those are unregulated products. That generally shouldn't happen with pharmaceuticals or medical devices, since those products have to be registered with the FDA, and part of that registration for foreign companies is the US agent requirement. At the very least it provides a local office where the FDA can show up and ask questions in person, and makes it more likely that they're dealing with someone who speaks English fluently. And it's easier for the FDA to shut down the local US agent than a company on the other side of the planet.

wrlwnd wrote on Sep 2, 2024, 03:16:

jdreyer wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 15:36:
The reason the judge is threatening to shut Twitter down in Brazil is precisely because he closed the Brazilian offices. In Brazil, it's illegal to run a business unless you have a legal representative in the nation, a pretty reasonable requirement.

How is that remotely "reasonable" when it comes to online content / commerce? If I have a product and advertise it on the web, are you saying that I must have an office in Brazil to sell anything to Brazilians? That's ridiculous.

You'll be really shocked to find out why consoles were so expensive there, though they relaxed things a bit.

You know all those tariffs Trump wants? Brazil has them. Anything not made there has massive tariffs applied. I've done a lot of work there. For one company we actually bought an entire local company in Brazil to own manufacturing. It's what the tariffs were largely designed for, though they'd prefer local ownership. For others, we largely ignored Brazil because it was products that couldn't be produced there at scale.

The PS4 cost almost 2 grand in Brazil. 63% was tariffs

jdreyer wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 15:36:
The reason the judge is threatening to shut Twitter down in Brazil is precisely because he closed the Brazilian offices. In Brazil, it's illegal to run a business unless you have a legal representative in the nation, a pretty reasonable requirement.

How is that remotely "reasonable" when it comes to online content / commerce? If I have a product and advertise it on the web, are you saying that I must have an office in Brazil to sell anything to Brazilians? That's ridiculous.

This is how you do the womp womp.
Brazil’s Supreme Court just ordered a nationwide suspension of elon's social network Twitter after he stupidly vowed to defy earlier court orders.

I guess Elon is feeling the heat.

Elon Musk says he may be more careful about where he travels after Telegram CEO shock arrest

Elon Musk has suggested he may have to be more careful about where he travels after Telegram's CEO was arrested in France.

The X owner, facing scrutiny around the world over the spread of misinformation on the social-media platform he bought for $44 billion in 2022, said on X that he might "limit movements" to nations where free speech is "constitutionally protected."

The billionaire was responding to a post asking him to consider the implications of where he travels.

WaltSee wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 08:43:
Pretty sure that this loony Brazilian judge is late to the party, as I read a couple of weeks ago an X post from Musk stating that he was closing the Brazilian X office because of this tyrant judge's demands that he violate the privacy of people posting in Brazil--yes, provide names, IP addresses, and so on to this judge...but as I stay away from liberal political sites I'm usually familiar with current events long before they are covered on the liberal sites--if they ever get covered at all. He posted the communications from this judge, and his demands read like a Hitler book-burning spree. Tyrants like controlling everything. This was old news for me. I salute Musk's refusal to knuckle under to tyrants everywhere. Spying and censorship are terrible things, imo.

The reason the judge is threatening to shut Twitter down in Brazil is precisely because he closed the Brazilian offices. In Brazil, it's illegal to run a business unless you have a legal representative in the nation, a pretty reasonable requirement.

As for "stifling free speech," Brazilian law designates judges to interpret and execute enforcement. Judge Moraes is in charge of enforcing the removal of disinformation, so what he's doing is entirely legal within Brazil and has the support of the current administration. Given Brazil's long history with coups and attempted coups, the most recent of which happened a mere two years ago, removing extreme speech from the public discourse is taken quite seriously.

It is kind of strange to bring Starlink into it, but I guess since Musk made it personal, the judge is as well. Probably an overstep that will be overturned when the full supreme court panel convenes.

Lastly, Musk is doing a great job of helping BlueSky take hold in Brazil, as this fight is resulting in millions of Brazilians opening new accounts there.

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 04:01:
*sigh* While I get Musk's mission to protect free speech, the whole concept has become way more complex thanks to social media. Now the entire world can speak at once in this global public square. Free speech is valuable because the exchange of ideas -- even bad ones -- helps us grow. But when wrong ideas spread so quickly on a platform like this, they often gain traction before they can be challenged or corrected.

Instead of being a rigid defender of free speech, Musk should focus on developing new moderation strategies, including using AI. Twitter messed up by having their moderator teams mostly in places like Silicon Valley, where it was often the "modern hippies" deciding what was worth sharing. That approach had its flaws. Now, Musk has a real chance to fix this and become a positive force in the world. Instead, he chose to reinstate fucktards like Alex Jones... 🤦🏻‍♂️

Moderation was provided by teams in the Philippines and India, IIRC. And it wasn't "SF Liberals" deciding how to moderate the content, it was business people who were trying to sell ads to risk-averse companies.

theglaze wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 11:21:

Instead of being a rigid defender of free speech, Musk should focus on developing new moderation strategies, including using AI.

Musk has also repeatedly stated his concerns about building an 'AI' that's trained to lie to humans, often citing 2001 Space Odyssey. But if he can't stop feeding it lies, is the objective truth even possible? There are a few conundrums here. Including the technical limitations of LLMs and feeding them info from authentic sources, Machiavellian scheming bot farms, and users regurgitating everything between the two.

Meanwhile. Open the Pod bay doors, HAL. Please, Hal.

That's why I said "including" and not "exclusively". In the foreseeable future, I can't imagine moderation without humans. AI could however help us humans way better than programmed algorithms that are easily exploited or just don't work well.

Indeed, Brazil plays by different rules. The rules they made, are from having to swat wanna-be autocrats every election cycle away. Which it seems the US is very lacking in. The fact that a convicted felon who attempts to overthrow the government and is actively threating to do so again can even attempt to run in the election is resoundingly breathtaking.

Instead of being a rigid defender of free speech, Musk should focus on developing new moderation strategies, including using AI.

Musk has also repeatedly stated his concerns about building an 'AI' that's trained to lie to humans, often citing 2001 Space Odyssey. But if he can't stop feeding it lies, is the objective truth even possible? There are a few conundrums here. Including the technical limitations of LLMs and feeding them info from authentic sources, Machiavellian scheming bot farms, and users regurgitating everything between the two.

Meanwhile. Open the Pod bay doors, HAL. Please, Hal.

Beamer wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 09:03:

WaltSee wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 08:43:
Pretty sure that this loony Brazilian judge is late to the party, as I read a couple of weeks ago an X post from Musk stating that he was closing the Brazilian X office because of this tyrant judge's demands that he violate the privacy of people posting in Brazil--yes, provide names, IP addresses, and so on to this judge...but as I stay away from liberal political sites I'm usually familiar with current events long before they are covered on the liberal sites--if they ever get covered at all. He posted the communications from this judge, and his demands read like a Hitler book-burning spree. Tyrants like controlling everything. This was old news for me. I salute Musk's refusal to knuckle under to tyrants everywhere. Spying and censorship are terrible things, imo.

Oh man, the patting yourself on the back for only going to fringe sites that tell you what you want to hear.


Tell us, oh great and insightful Walt, where you get your news, so we all may be as well informed.

Isn't it more important to figure out if he's right or not, instead of this denegrating vomit you're spewing? If he's correct in what he's saying and this is old news, maybe he has a point?

So, WaltSee, can you link us some of the stuff that informed you?

I submit that if people looked in to the Brazilian constitution, and the history of why it is written the way it is, they would understand the basis of this judge's actions.

He's far from the tyrant that the most ignorant and uneducated among us are claiming. If anything, he's doing his damndest to ensure Brazilian democracy.

I HATE social media. I HATE the corporations that run social media. But I don't agree with this. At most, legally mandate that their algorithm focus on culling out extremist/dangerous content instead of serving up this garbage to people. It is wrong to threaten their entire existence despite how much I hate them.

Why am I not surprised that he only goes to sites that fits his worldview and assumes that he's not only getting the correct information but getting it before anyone else?
It's very telling that he doesn't source anything, but then again we all remember when he tried sourcing before and the links he provided did not agree with his incorrect hypothesis.
I take solace in the fact that not everyone thinks they are the arbiter of information gathering or chooses to live in a titanium bubble shielded by a Faraday cage.

I wonder if he follows up on any of it, ever. Or if he even realizes that one of those "news" sites recently had to pay almost a billion dollars for spreading election lies.

WaltSee wrote on Aug 30, 2024, 08:43:
Pretty sure that this loony Brazilian judge is late to the party, as I read a couple of weeks ago an X post from Musk stating that he was closing the Brazilian X office because of this tyrant judge's demands that he violate the privacy of people posting in Brazil--yes, provide names, IP addresses, and so on to this judge...but as I stay away from liberal political sites I'm usually familiar with current events long before they are covered on the liberal sites--if they ever get covered at all. He posted the communications from this judge, and his demands read like a Hitler book-burning spree. Tyrants like controlling everything. This was old news for me. I salute Musk's refusal to knuckle under to tyrants everywhere. Spying and censorship are terrible things, imo.

Oh man, the patting yourself on the back for only going to fringe sites that tell you what you want to hear.


Tell us, oh great and insightful Walt, where you get your news, so we all may be as well informed.

Pretty sure that this loony Brazilian judge is late to the party, as I read a couple of weeks ago an X post from Musk stating that he was closing the Brazilian X office because of this tyrant judge's demands that he violate the privacy of people posting in Brazil--yes, provide names, IP addresses, and so on to this judge...but as I stay away from liberal political sites I'm usually familiar with current events long before they are covered on the liberal sites--if they ever get covered at all. He posted the communications from this judge, and his demands read like a Hitler book-burning spree. Tyrants like controlling everything. This was old news for me. I salute Musk's refusal to knuckle under to tyrants everywhere. Spying and censorship are terrible things, imo.

The moment social media platforms began using algorithms to selectively promote certain content over others, they arguably stepped beyond the protective boundaries of Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. This legislation was designed to shield platforms from liability for user-generated content, but the active curation and amplification of specific material by these platforms suggest a level of editorial control that blurs the lines between a neutral intermediary and a publisher. The consequences of this shift have been profound, as these algorithms often prioritize sensational, divisive, and sometimes harmful content to maximize user engagement and ad revenue. This has led to an environment where misinformation, hate speech, and other damaging content can spread rapidly and widely, exacerbating social tensions and undermining public discourse.

The impact of these algorithm-driven platforms on society has been deeply troubling. Instead of fostering informed and constructive conversations, social media has often become a fire hose of harmful and polarizing content. The constant bombardment of sensational and negative material has contributed to increased anxiety, division, and misinformation among users. The current state of social media, driven by profit motives and algorithmic manipulation, has created a far more toxic and fragmented digital landscape, leaving it clear the harm done far outweighs the mostly frivolous and ephemeral benefits if any.

*sigh* While I get Musk's mission to protect free speech, the whole concept has become way more complex thanks to social media. Now the entire world can speak at once in this global public square. Free speech is valuable because the exchange of ideas -- even bad ones -- helps us grow. But when wrong ideas spread so quickly on a platform like this, they often gain traction before they can be challenged or corrected.

Instead of being a rigid defender of free speech, Musk should focus on developing new moderation strategies, including using AI. Twitter messed up by having their moderator teams mostly in places like Silicon Valley, where it was often the "modern hippies" deciding what was worth sharing. That approach had its flaws. Now, Musk has a real chance to fix this and become a positive force in the world. Instead, he chose to reinstate fucktards like Alex Jones... 🤦🏻‍♂️

This comment was edited on Aug 30, 2024, 04:23.

Do not underestimate the power of the force.

I hope musk gives him the finger. I would.