Most obvious thing in the world on Fallout. If you thought anything else, you didn't understand the story -- they even held your hand to explain it in the intro.

People fixate on and read individual details differently due to having different context in their life experience to compare the details too. I too would think that the whole "war, war never changes" thing would have cemented this topic. The game world has a lot of stories, references, and jokes that people can pluck a contant theme or two out of admittedly. I think there is an undertone of capitalism critique in the game, but it doesnt feel like it has much to do with being the actual "point".

Yeah but what is the root causes of war? Exactly as it’s described in the opening.

Dwindling resources and tribalism/Nationalism exacerbated by unchecked resource use and kicking the can down the road to solve all the problems generated from that.

I dunno sounds a lot like unchecked capitalism to me.

ZeroPike1 wrote on Aug 23, 2024, 04:51:
Yeah but what is the root causes of war? Exactly as it’s described in the opening.

Dwindling resources and tribalism/Nationalism exacerbated by unchecked resource use and kicking the can down the road to solve all the problems generated from that.

I dunno sounds a lot like unchecked capitalism to me.

If we forget about ideology as a cause for a minute, it's true that most wars are fought for resources. However, it's interesting that you point the finger at capitalism, but let's not forget that no economic or political system has ever fully resolved the issue of resource allocation. Whether it's capitalism, communism, or any other system. In theory, communism might aim for collective management, but history shows us that resource conflicts -- and their consequences -- still occur under any system. The core issue isn't just "unchecked capitalism" but rather the inherent complexity of managing limited resources in any human society. To read Fallout's theme as a critique to capitalism in particular is silly.

Nearly every vault features some horrible experiment run by a corporation, but sure, no criticisms of capitalism to be found

While that may be so, those examples serve a broader narrative purpose rather than a targeted critique of capitalism. The Vault experiments reveal the darker sides of human nature and the extremes societies might reach under pressure. Cain’s point is likely that these stories focus on the inevitability of human conflict and moral failings, not on critiquing any specific economic system. Stories can explore societal dynamics without delivering a critique of the system itself.

Debating this reflects how politically charged our interpretations have become. Sometimes, a story is just a story, without needing to carry real-world philosophical weight.

Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2024, 07:24:
Nearly every vault features some horrible experiment run by a corporation, but sure, no criticisms of capitalism to be found

Vault Tek definitely represents corporate bad guys, but then you also have the existence of the Enclave. Those guys come right out of a deep state fantasy. So if there are any critiques, they seem to be spread around.

Dreagon wrote on Aug 23, 2024, 09:10:

Beamer wrote on Aug 23, 2024, 07:24:
Nearly every vault features some horrible experiment run by a corporation, but sure, no criticisms of capitalism to be found

Vault Tek definitely represents corporate bad guys, but then you also have the existence of the Enclave. Those guys come right out of a deep state fantasy. So if there are any critiques, they seem to be spread around.

Oh, absolutely. It's not solely a critique on capitalism, but the critiques on capitalism are absolutely prevalent, blunt and biting. It's where the most effort is put in, at least from 2 onward.

Tim seems annoyed that the TV show was so aimed at capitalism, but so have most of the games. It's an easy target, too, unless everyone here thinks they're making the right amount of money relative to their CEO, that their wages have risen at an appropriate amount relative to their company's profits, and that the government is giving their interests as much attention as corporations

I don't think it is a deliberate treatise on capitalism (talking specifically of the first 3 'Fallout' games, while 'Borderlands' is a bit more on the nose), but it lends itself to being one because in exploring how the world was controlled then destroyed, out-of-control capitalism provided an easy, observable vehicle by which to tell their story. So it can easily be taken as one if that is where you want to go.

The villains, for obvious fictional reasons, went far beyond the average apathetic, greed-driven, and incompetent billionaire that we see today and instead were portrayed as insidious, devious, conniving, sociopathic, and dastardly people who were willing to murder billions of people for their chance to cement absolute control in the new lawless society that came after. There's no parallels beyond the basic tenets of capitalism to actual reality so don't get your panties twisted. As with the movie "Don't Look Up" or other games like "The Outer Worlds", it is a surrealist and satirical take on the subject and can't actually happen.

All extreme systems - capitalism and communism are bound to fail. Life only thrives in the Goldilocks zone - whether biological, political, or religious - not too hot, not too cold, but just right - the middle ground. Look at the the world indexes for happiest cities and countries with the best overall QOL and they're all social democracies - not overtly religious or politically extreme, economically balanced for rich and poor. If war is inevitable it's because we permit the psychopathicly selfish to run things. And there are too many dumb people who listen to and adore them. If a billionaire is telling you, the proletariat, what is in your best interests you should at least have brains enough to go the other way. Sadly there really is a sucker born every minute. So, yeah, war most likely is inevitable because we're too greedy, dumb, and atavistic overall as a species.

To me it's always been less a critique of capitalism and more about the inherit inhumanity and corruption of the military-industrial complex, which exists in capitalist, fascist, and communist societies. I'd say the TV show follows that theme as well.