WannaLogAlready wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 22:10:
Something like "the Allies and the Axis were the same, can't tell a difference" stupor here.

Sigh, unfathomable if from a supposedly cognisant responsible adult.

There's no shortage of Low Information & Misinformation Voters for donnie to prey upon.

Something like "the Allies and the Axis were the same, can't tell a difference" stupor here.

Sigh, unfahomable if from a supposedly cognisant responsible adult.

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

cappy wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 20:25:

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 11:56:
It's all just a disgusting, fucking wasteland. Trump is a clown, Republicans are fools, Biden is so senile it's elder abuse by now, Harris has nothing. The media is biased as fuck. Maybe I see this because I'm an immigrant and brought some of that measured cynicism from Europe. Otherwise, I have literally no clue whatsoever how everyone here can be so fucking partisan they can't see the shit they're being fed.

I swear, even if both nominees are shit eating chimpanzees, a strong Republican base will still gleefully vote for the red ape and the Democrats for the blue ape.

Politics in the US is like a fucking football game, with the bombastic campaigns, the billions in ads, the irrational partisanship that's fine in sports but disgusting in politics, etc. I fucking love the US for a million reasons, but this part of the culture I hate vehemently.

/rant 😂

It's the system we are stuck with. The founders didn't have many examples to choose from back in the late 1700s. So they went with the republic system because there were no parliamentary systems like became so prevalent in the 20th century (parliament in the 1700s existed, but was considerably different than the power of the parliament and prime ministers in today's systems).

The founders also went with a system that guaranteed a great deal of deadlock and difficulty in getting things done - because it perfectly mirrored how deadlocked the founders and the colonies they represented were. Nowadays, the "checks and balances" are sold as some kind of great benefit of the U.S. system. But the deadlocking means voters are disenchanted and results in pathetically low voter turnout rates compared with many other democratic countries. And the 2-party system leaves many voters feeling disenfranchised.

It's notable that the U.S. formed parliamentary systems for both Germany and Japan following WW2, rather than trying to emulate the supposedly exceptional republic system of government of the U.S. Also notable is the high (pretty much 100%) failure rate of republics which the U.S. has so far managed to avoid. But the actions and stated ambitions of Trump and the extremists in the GOP and conservative movement have certainly laid bare the myths that the U.S. system could be immune to the kind of soft takeovers that have befallen others.

Parliamentary systems are certainly not perfect - no system of government is. But they do provide for more parties and allow voters to better align with their values and interests, and allow for coalition-forming where an outright majority isn't met. And do away with voting directly for the leader, while making it easier for the majority in power to actually accomplish the agenda they were supposedly supposed to do, having attained that majority.

Granted, the founders of the U.S. in many respects distrusted the will of the majority, and certainly there are many instances where the majority is wrong and protecting interests of those with less of a voice is the right thing to do. And yet, most of the other modern world democracies have managed to meet or exceed (and often far earlier) many of the gains eked out by the U.S. system's supposed superiority in protecting minority interests against the will of a majority.

Parliamentary systems are great - you end up with tiny fringe parties, usually a few for the white supremacists, and that keeps them from being an important part of a major party that then ends up needing to be heavily catered to.

Instead we got this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_8E3ENrKrQ

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 11:56:
It's all just a disgusting, fucking wasteland. Trump is a clown, Republicans are fools, Biden is so senile it's elder abuse by now, Harris has nothing. The media is biased as fuck. Maybe I see this because I'm an immigrant and brought some of that measured cynicism from Europe. Otherwise, I have literally no clue whatsoever how everyone here can be so fucking partisan they can't see the shit they're being fed.

I swear, even if both nominees are shit eating chimpanzees, a strong Republican base will still gleefully vote for the red ape and the Democrats for the blue ape.

Politics in the US is like a fucking football game, with the bombastic campaigns, the billions in ads, the irrational partisanship that's fine in sports but disgusting in politics, etc. I fucking love the US for a million reasons, but this part of the culture I hate vehemently.

/rant 😂

It's the system we are stuck with. The founders didn't have many examples to choose from back in the late 1700s. So they went with the republic system because there were no parliamentary systems like became so prevalent in the 20th century (parliament in the 1700s existed, but was considerably different than the power of the parliament and prime ministers in today's systems).

The founders also went with a system that guaranteed a great deal of deadlock and difficulty in getting things done - because it perfectly mirrored how deadlocked the founders and the colonies they represented were. Nowadays, the "checks and balances" are sold as some kind of great benefit of the U.S. system. But the deadlocking means voters are disenchanted and results in pathetically low voter turnout rates compared with many other democratic countries. And the 2-party system leaves many voters feeling disenfranchised.

It's notable that the U.S. formed parliamentary systems for both Germany and Japan following WW2, rather than trying to emulate the supposedly exceptional republic system of government of the U.S. Also notable is the high (pretty much 100%) failure rate of republics which the U.S. has so far managed to avoid. But the actions and stated ambitions of Trump and the extremists in the GOP and conservative movement have certainly laid bare the myths that the U.S. system could be immune to the kind of soft takeovers that have befallen others.

Parliamentary systems are certainly not perfect - no system of government is. But they do provide for more parties and allow voters to better align with their values and interests, and allow for coalition-forming where an outright majority isn't met. And do away with voting directly for the leader, while making it easier for the majority in power to actually accomplish the agenda they were supposedly supposed to do, having attained that majority.

Granted, the founders of the U.S. in many respects distrusted the will of the majority, and certainly there are many instances where the majority is wrong and protecting interests of those with less of a voice is the right thing to do. And yet, most of the other modern world democracies have managed to meet or exceed (and often far earlier) many of the gains eked out by the U.S. system's supposed superiority in protecting minority interests against the will of a majority.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 12:49:

The Flying Penguin wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 12:34:
If you choose not to vote, that is certainly your right. But don't complain about whichever administration winds up in the White House.

Exactly, and don’t blather about it if you don’t care enough to vote.

I also don't buy the immigrant angle. My wife was very much an immigrant and voted in every local, state, and Federal election like clockwork. She got me off my ass to go vote in the same elections. She had the exact same attitude of "put up or shut up" when it came to voting. You didn't vote? Shut the fuck up and sit down, the adults are talking. She worked to get other immigrants from varying countries that were legally eligible to vote registered to vote and coordinated rides for those people to vote.

"I won't vote but I want to bitch about the outcome" is the exact same energy as "I won't eat dinner but I want to bitch about how it tastes". It's childish.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 12:34:
We have 4 years of Trump as an example. The sequel will not come with guard rails.

So yeah, I do think it's an existential crisis. Trump IS that bad, and the cronies he will bring along to actually run things will be even worse.

I am a moderate Independent. I do not knee jerk vote for Dems, although I generally tend to lean to the left. I vote for the person who I think will do the better job, in both national and local elections. I voted for Obama in 2008, and against him for Mitt Romney 2012 (to the consternation of friends and family on the left and the right). I did not vote for Reagan, but I concede that he was probably one of our best Presidents in our lifetime. I did not vote for George Bush Sr, but I concede he was overall a good president in the mold of Reagan.

All politicians are flawed creatures. You pick the best you can, based on your heart.

If you choose not to vote, that is certainly your right. But don't complain about whichever administration winds up in the White House.

I mean there was the time that Reagan sold arms to our enemies for profit and to fund another illegal war in defiance of a bill passed 411-0 and that he signed into law.

Gave a great speech after the Challenger disaster he helped cause. I hope Trump has a real good one for Boeing.

Raised taxes more times than any other president - after his initial tax cuts for the rich because he thought they'd spur economic growth, but the rich tend to hoard so instead we tripled our national deficit.

Didn't really handle the AIDS crisis particularly well either I'd say, and his press secretary accusing reporters of being gay for even asking about it probably was not one of our finest moments as a nation.

Also invaded U.K. territory and forgot to notify Thatcher. Could have been the alzheimer's.

Also wasn't that around the time that the most influential Republican strategist of all time (Lee Atwater) was recorded admitting the Republican party was tailored to appeal to racists because they were a huge voting bloc?

The Nixon tapes definitely let you know how Reagan felt about race personally.

Also just a little weird for a president to have a court astrologer?

The Flying Penguin wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 12:34:
If you choose not to vote, that is certainly your right. But don't complain about whichever administration winds up in the White House.

Exactly, and don’t blather about it if you don’t care enough to vote.

I appreciate your stance a lot. I will still complain though. Just because I think the two options before me are both utterly fucking shit options, doesn't mean I can no longer complain about the result. Either result will be shit. If I can not complain afterward, I'll explode 😂

We have 4 years of Trump as an example. The sequel will not come with guard rails.

So yeah, I do think it's an existential crisis. Trump IS that bad, and the cronies he will bring along to actually run things will be even worse.

I am a moderate Independent. I do not knee jerk vote for Dems, although I generally tend to lean to the left. I vote for the person who I think will do the better job, in both national and local elections. I voted for Obama in 2008, and against him for Mitt Romney 2012 (to the consternation of friends and family on the left and the right). I did not vote for Reagan, but I concede that he was probably one of our best Presidents in our lifetime. I did not vote for George Bush Sr, but I concede he was overall a good president in the mold of Reagan.

All politicians are flawed creatures. You pick the best you can, based on your heart.

If you choose not to vote, that is certainly your right. But don't complain about whichever administration winds up in the White House.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 10:14:
There is only one option this election.
Sitting it out and failing to do your civic duty just means you're giving it to a twice impeached failed former president.

Ask a Democrat, They're not upset about Madam Vice President becoming the nominee.
As can be seen by the crowds at her appearances, increased fundraising and general overall upbeat feel that's happening right now in the United States.

As for a missing president, what the fuck are you talking about? Here's a little fact. 90 days of a "missing" President Biden is better than one day of Donnie.

I don't give a shit that me not voting basically means helping Trump. I'm literally just as much disgusted by the Democrat machine, that has its tentacles in every major news organization out there, as I am with Trump. I don't share your fears that Trump will mean the end of democracy at all. It's high time for you guys to stop projecting that fear into any debate about politics. Convince people Trump is bad without resorting to the hitler/mousselini bullshit.
Just some friendly advice from a currently impatient immigrant. 😂

It's all just a disgusting, fucking wasteland. Trump is a clown, Republicans are fools, Biden is so senile it's elder abuse by now, Harris has nothing. The media is biased as fuck. Maybe I see this because I'm an immigrant and brought some of that measured cynicism from Europe. Otherwise, I have literally no clue whatsoever how everyone here can be so fucking partisan they can't see the shit they're being fed.

I swear, even if both nominees are shit eating chimpanzees, a strong Republican base will still gleefully vote for the red ape and the Democrats for the blue ape.

Politics in the US is like a fucking football game, with the bombastic campaigns, the billions in ads, the irrational partisanship that's fine in sports but disgusting in politics, etc. I fucking love the US for a million reasons, but this part of the culture I hate vehemently.

/rant 😂

This comment was edited on Aug 13, 2024, 12:07.

Trump is a Fascist. Not a Hitler type Fascist, more of a five and dime Mussolini.

Fascism:
1. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

If the shoe fits.

Just an observation: I can say a lot of bad things about Democrats. But I have never seen a Dem leader 'primary' someone else in their party, just because they talked bad about them. You talk bad about Trump and you're out, and everyone in the GOP knows it, so except for a few brave ones, they all cow-tow to the Il Duce.

I'll register to not vote.
Makes sense

Talking of insulting our intelligence:
Biden : "Let's fix the horribly disfunctional SCOTUS"
(Derailed thanks to GOP and Trump).

"He doesn't make sense."
Glad if you don't vote, frankly.

-------------------------------------
"In a godless society, nothing is sacred" Tomás de Torquemada.

There is only one option this election.
Sitting it out and failing to do your civic duty just means you're giving it to a twice impeached failed former president.

Ask a Democrat, They're not upset about Madam Vice President becoming the nominee.
As can be seen by the crowds at her appearances, increased fundraising and general overall upbeat feel that's happening right now in the United States.

As for a missing president, what the fuck are you talking about? Here's a little fact. 90 days of a "missing" President Biden is better than one day of Donnie.

Saboth wrote on Aug 13, 2024, 06:49:
Listened to some of Trump's interview. Dude was never qualified for office, but now he's completely unhinged. Meanwhile, Musk just let him say whatever he wanted, agreeing to all of the nonsense from a ranting old man who has no clue how the world works.

To be fair, Biden hasn’t exactly been making much sense either, and now he’s practically missing in action. As for Harris, she’s no better. There’s a reason she dropped out of the race early in 2020, yet here we are, stuck with her as the party’s choice, the same party that warns us about the "threat to democracy" posed by Trump. Some might argue that she could in fact have been challenged by another nominee, but with the entire media and Obama backing her the second she was pushed forward while the rest of the country barely knew wtf was going on, that idea is just insulting to anyone’s intelligence.

I don't think I'm going to vote at all. I'll register as an independent and sit this one out...

Listened to some of Trump's interview. Dude was never qualified for office, but now he's completely unhinged. Meanwhile, Musk just let him say whatever he wanted, agreeing to all of the nonsense from a ranting old man who has no clue how the world works.

opie wrote on Aug 12, 2024, 21:01:
why do we care what EU thinks/wants? oh yeah, we don't.

Living in the EU I often feel the same way about the US.

All the richest dumbest man in the world does is spread lies, conspiracies and shitty jokes.
If the EU was smart they'd ban twitter.