Well shit. I'm way overdue for an "upgrade" and was waiting to see what AMD's new chips would bring. At this point though, anything is an upgrade over my old i7 6700K.

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 20:38:

Kxmode wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 20:20:

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 13:10:
Here's the Gamers Nexus 9700X review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttc_ioflGo

The 2nd most positive thing about it is, even though I've looked everywhere, I can't find the word "Intel" anywhere on the box.

Bahahahaha.

I currently have a 5800X (non-3D), and was considering upgrading my system to a 9800X3D when they come out.

And then immediately after that Steve states: "Our 9600 X has lots of problems which I actually can't remember a single CPU review that we've ever done where we had enough problems where it prevented a review entirely." So there's that.

If you keep watching, it was updated to say they got a replacement that works fine, it was just a bum sample. One bad CPU is vastly different than a widespread defect spanning multiple generations.

Definitely but this Zen 5 launch seems to have had quite a bit of trouble for some reason (Intel covert sabotage? ). German ComputerBase (a very AMD-friendly site, to say the least) also mentioned in their review that they had massive issues with stability and memory compatibility during their testing. AMD released five(!) new BIOS revisions within a single week to address these problems. ComputerBase said that a July 31st launch, as originally planned, would have ended up in a "disaster".
Things have settled down somewhat according to them but more AGESA/BIOS updates are to be expected.

This is actually pretty puzzling because it's not like AMD has introduced a new chipset or new mainboards in conjunction with Zen 5. It's just Zen 5 on the good "old" X670E mobos. And even if X870E comes out later this year, X870E is going to have the exact same Promontory chipsets on board as the X670E generation. It's going to be a very incremental upgrade. The only things X870E is going to have over X670E is WiFi 7 and USB 4.0. That's pretty much it.

So, it's a bit of a mystery why AMD botched this launch at least for the reviewers. But if the issues are actually under control now then this is indeed infinitely better than a degraded/degrading Intel piece of shit CPU. A little bugginess is fixable. Degradation is irreversible. Fuck Intel.

Much higher single core results in synthetics, games barely see any improvements.
Seems like Zen5 has a strange bottleneck somewhere, even when you remove the power limits on the 9700X, gaming performance barely improves at all.

In a few reviews I've seen, the best scenario to boost its performance seems to be about tuning/OC'ing RAM, even reaching 5850mhz on the CPU by tuning PBO and the curve shaper doesn't seem to do much. I'd be curious to see how much the CPU is stalling waiting for data from RAM, it seems starved of something one way or another.

AMD has a technical issue on their hands, it will be interesting to see how the X3D part fares in comparison, maybe that's why they plan on releasing it sooner than the delay between the 7700X and the 7800X3D.

In any case, Intel has a narrow window of opportunity here to capitalize on this if they execute perfectly with Arrow Lake, at least on the gaming side if the instability and degradation issues don't affect it and the power consumption isn't out of control. Big doubt here too.

Let us know how your RMA with Intel turns out.
But in the meantime, be careful carrying that much water. You’re not getting any younger and you only have one back.

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 20:38:
If you keep watching, it was updated to say they got a replacement that works fine, it was just a bum sample. One bad CPU is vastly different than a widespread defect spanning multiple generations.

AMD: "AMD is also introducing next-gen AMD Ryzen™ 9000 Series processors for desktops, further solidifying its position as a leader in performance and efficiency for gamers, content creators, and prosumers." That statement is simply not true based on the multiple benchmark tests. The 9600 and 9700 are meh processors at best.

Kxmode wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 20:20:

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 13:10:
Here's the Gamers Nexus 9700X review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttc_ioflGo

The 2nd most positive thing about it is, even though I've looked everywhere, I can't find the word "Intel" anywhere on the box.

Bahahahaha.

I currently have a 5800X (non-3D), and was considering upgrading my system to a 9800X3D when they come out.

And then immediately after that Steve states: "Our 9600 X has lots of problems which I actually can't remember a single CPU review that we've ever done where we had enough problems where it prevented a review entirely." So there's that.

If you keep watching, it was updated to say they got a replacement that works fine, it was just a bum sample. One bad CPU is vastly different than a widespread defect spanning multiple generations.

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 13:10:
Here's the Gamers Nexus 9700X review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rttc_ioflGo

The 2nd most positive thing about it is, even though I've looked everywhere, I can't find the word "Intel" anywhere on the box.

Bahahahaha.

I currently have a 5800X (non-3D), and was considering upgrading my system to a 9800X3D when they come out.

And then immediately after that Steve states: "Our 9600 X has lots of problems which I actually can't remember a single CPU review that we've ever done where we had enough problems where it prevented a review entirely." So there's that.

Pr()ZaC wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 18:02:

Bodolza wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 16:03:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 15:13:
Let me know when Intel's processors can beat the AMD X3D series.

Currently.

LOL @ Intel's power draw!
Also, both processors were not really tested in modern games and as you may know, some titles don't take advantage of V-Cache.

The game selection there seems decent if on the smaller side, but the 7950X3D is not fastest in games, the 7800X3D is. TechPowerUp's average of 14 game tests measures the latter to be upwards of 7% faster than the 14900K, while using ~100W less power.

Power efficiency is great on the 9700X, but overall performance gains isn't as good as hoped. Also the idle power consumption seems oddly 20W higher than Intel. The 65W TDP is holding it back but does keep it in that effiency sweet spot. Also some of these reviews isn't using the AMD recommended DD5 6000 CL30 which might be sandbagging it slightly.

I would definitely wait for 9800X3D with the higher TDP and Vcache it'll be much faster at gaming including 1% lows. That'll also give time for Lunar Lake to come out to see if Intel can finally reign in power consumption which they are insanely high looking at this TPU comparison. Still content with my 3.5 year old 5800X for the time being.

This comment was edited on Aug 7, 2024, 18:26.

Bodolza wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 16:03:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 15:13:
Let me know when Intel's processors can beat the AMD X3D series.

Currently.

LOL @ Intel's power draw!
Also, both processors were not really tested in modern games and as you may know, some titles don't take advantage of V-Cache.

Xero wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:
I'm late to the party on this Intel fiasco. Exactly what chips or drivers are tarnishing performance? Hopefully just the newer gens. My 11th gen feels old as f**k now, lol.

It is widely believed to be a problem specific to 13th and 14th gens. The recently extended warranty that is apparently in response to the high failure rate, however, covers more than that so who the hell knows. I know nothing about tech but I do know that going into your BIOS and telling your CPU to never go above 1.5 volts seems to be the most widely mentioned solution.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 15:13:
Let me know when Intel's processors can beat the AMD X3D series.

Currently.

Bodolza wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 15:07:
Gotta say I'm underwhelmed. The new AMD CPUs are still getting clobbered by even mid-tier Intel processors. Even if the fix ends up being decreased voltages, I'm guessing the Intel processors will still have better performance.

Let me know when Intel's processors can beat the AMD X3D series.

Gotta say I'm underwhelmed. The new AMD CPUs are still getting clobbered by even mid-tier Intel processors. Even if the fix ends up being decreased voltages, I'm guessing the Intel processors will still have better performance.

Xero wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:32:

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:

Xero wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:
I'm late to the party on this Intel fiasco. Exactly what chips or drivers are tarnishing performance? Hopefully just the newer gens. My 11th gen feels old as f**k now, lol.

13th and 14th gens are borked.

Gotcha. What about the Nvidia drivers recently released. Was there any word that those were also messing around with CPUs? I assume also only effected the 13th and 14th?

There was never anything wrong with the Nvidia drivers. The issue was that the defective CPUs would crater during the install. I think Intel has recommended some bio's settings to decrease errors when installing Nvidia drivers.

Nullity wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:

Xero wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:
I'm late to the party on this Intel fiasco. Exactly what chips or drivers are tarnishing performance? Hopefully just the newer gens. My 11th gen feels old as f**k now, lol.

13th and 14th gens are borked.

Gotcha. What about the Nvidia drivers recently released. Was there any word that those were also messing around with CPUs? I assume also only effected the 13th and 14th?

Xero wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:09:
I'm late to the party on this Intel fiasco. Exactly what chips or drivers are tarnishing performance? Hopefully just the newer gens. My 11th gen feels old as f**k now, lol.

13th and 14th gens are borked.

I'm late to the party on this Intel fiasco. Exactly what chips or drivers are tarnishing performance? Hopefully just the newer gens. My 11th gen feels old as f**k now, lol.

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 12:58:
Yep. Their (TPU) results are pretty wild, to say the least. They are also the only site (OK, I have not checked every single one, of course, but let's say mainstream site) that claims that the 9700X beats the 7950X3D in gaming. That is pretty insane because literally all other sites are showing 7800X3D/7950X3D approximately 15% to 20% ahead of the 9700X

Benchmarking games is difficult, weird, and inconsistent. There are significant differences from title to title because of the game engine and what the devs have deployed. Testers have to restrict variables, and the choices they make will impact the results: how the game is configured, what the test actually is, the consistency of the test, how the results are collected, etc.

Baulder's Gate 3 at 1080p as an example:

Gamers Nexus (Medium with 4090): 9700X loses out to ALL X3D chips, including 5600X3D. Meanwhile, 7800X3D is 23% faster.
Hardware Unboxed (Ultra with 4090): 9700X beats 5800XD, but not Zen 4. 7800X3D is 26% faster.
TechPowerUp (Ultra with 4090): 9700X loses out to 5800X3D and all Zen 4 X3D. 7800X3D is 28% faster.
PC Gamer (Ultra with 4070): 9700K beats 5700X3D, no others tested.

I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is: the performance gains of 9700X over previous generations are within the margin of error with testing for Baulder's Gate.

Don't play BG3? Well, you'd have to cross-reference results for the titles you do play, and maybe then the results are meaningful... assuming your have an RTX 4090 like the most of these testers

The 9700X will likely be a big upgrade from my current 3700X and being in the same power efficiency curve is a big bonus for me. I probably won't upgrade until sometime in February or March when I can afford the downtime. But I expect a lot of AGESA optimizations will have happened between now and then making the uplift even greater. Or, at least, I hope they will.

Though the constant pinchpenny approach to PCIe lanes is annoying. Threadripper gets 128 lanes (at least the 7945WX does). EPYC is obviously much more than that. So why are we still stuck with the same 24 lanes we've been on for multiple generations now? At least bump us up to 48. While I am wishing for unicorns that shit out gold bars, give me more than two full sized PCIe slots on an ATX motherboard! I know some boards have three but with more PCIe lanes and slots, I could have more expansion capability. Then I could run my 10Gbe NIC, LSI HBA, and GPU at full lane speed. Plus the added bonus of 4 or more NVMe slots.

Also, I want a pony.