Bludd wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 14:12:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 13:29:

Bludd wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 08:21:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 07:56:

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

There has only been one microcode fix for a bug they found related to their investigations with regard to the reported instabilities and that was rolled out on or around July 12th (ASUS). It was a bug concerning the eTVB (thermal velocity boost) and Intel themselves said that it might merely be a contributor but not the root cause of the RPL/RPL-R instabilities.

The other microcode fix that is going to fix the "elevated voltages", which Intel pinned down as the alleged actual root cause very recently, is going to be released some time this month (probably after the AMD NDA expires because Intel, those fuckers, want the media to compare Zen 5 to the pre-microcode 13th/14th gen benchmarks in their reviews... always up to dirty tricks those sleazy bastages ).

There is apparently no alternative fix. Intel claims and admits that the elevated voltages are the root cause and those voltages are causing accelerated degradation so anyone with a 13th/14th gen desktop CPU should most definitely install the latest BIOS ASAP when it comes out later this month because there is no telling how much your CPU has already degraded or how close it may be to showing symptoms, i.e. tipping over the instability edge.

thats not strictly true, intel have been releasing microcode updates since early 2023 which have tweaked voltages but that was before the public knew anything about these issues. but the microcode we are waiting for is the one that intel has stated will solve the problem with the cpu requesting too high voltages. there is fear that they will do that without sophistication but who knows

Well, of course, I was only referring to the microcode fixes related to the reported instability issues as that is what the question of @VaranDragon was presumably asking about. I thought it unnecessary to mention the entire BIOS release history as naturally many BIOS versions contain microcode changes, fixes or updates.

But if anyone is interested in the full history then here is an ASUS example (make sure to expand the list for the entire BIOS revision history). The release notes with regard to the microcode updates are basically the same for each Z790 board.
Every (older) Z790 ASUS board is now on version 2402 while the newer ones like the Apex Encore or Hero BTF are on version 1402. ASUS have unified this stuff and their versioning to a great deal.

my point is that they have been quietly trying to mitigate this issue (and not doing enough mitigation) for a while until it blew up in their faces

I see, though I kind of doubt it, because there has been zero performance differences as far as I can tell. Wouldn't we have witnessed at least *some* performance degradation if they stealth-fixed things? Also, the only explicit microcode changes that ASUS has been listing throughout the history of my board are:

- BIOS v1402: Update Microcode for Intel® Core™ 14th gen processors
- BIOS v2002: Update the Intel microcode to version 0x123, allowing for disabling CEP for improved performance on Intel 14th Gen non-K series processors
- BIOS v2402: Updated with microcode 0x125 to ensure eTVB operates within Intel specifications

^ Only the 2402 version with microcode 0x125 (the latest one from July 12th) is related to the instability issues.

That said, I'm sure that Intel has been aware of the issues for a long time and I'm not 100% buying their "elevated voltages" story. I still have a suspicion that the real root cause could be a hardware level production/manufacturing error that they are hoping to mitigate via that upcoming microcode fix for the (alleged) elevated voltages. I guess we'll see whether it is the real fix, and by association real root cause, in a few weeks/months time...

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 13:29:

Bludd wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 08:21:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 07:56:

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

There has only been one microcode fix for a bug they found related to their investigations with regard to the reported instabilities and that was rolled out on or around July 12th (ASUS). It was a bug concerning the eTVB (thermal velocity boost) and Intel themselves said that it might merely be a contributor but not the root cause of the RPL/RPL-R instabilities.

The other microcode fix that is going to fix the "elevated voltages", which Intel pinned down as the alleged actual root cause very recently, is going to be released some time this month (probably after the AMD NDA expires because Intel, those fuckers, want the media to compare Zen 5 to the pre-microcode 13th/14th gen benchmarks in their reviews... always up to dirty tricks those sleazy bastages ).

There is apparently no alternative fix. Intel claims and admits that the elevated voltages are the root cause and those voltages are causing accelerated degradation so anyone with a 13th/14th gen desktop CPU should most definitely install the latest BIOS ASAP when it comes out later this month because there is no telling how much your CPU has already degraded or how close it may be to showing symptoms, i.e. tipping over the instability edge.

thats not strictly true, intel have been releasing microcode updates since early 2023 which have tweaked voltages but that was before the public knew anything about these issues. but the microcode we are waiting for is the one that intel has stated will solve the problem with the cpu requesting too high voltages. there is fear that they will do that without sophistication but who knows

Well, of course, I was only referring to the microcode fixes related to the reported instability issues as that is what the question of @VaranDragon was presumably asking about. I thought it unnecessary to mention the entire BIOS release history as naturally many BIOS versions contain microcode changes, fixes or updates.

But if anyone is interested in the full history then here is an ASUS example (make sure to expand the list for the entire BIOS revision history). The release notes with regard to the microcode updates are basically the same for each Z790 board.
Every (older) Z790 ASUS board is now on version 2402 while the newer ones like the Apex Encore or Hero BTF are on version 1402. ASUS have unified this stuff and their versioning to a great deal.

my point is that they have been quietly trying to mitigate this issue (and not doing enough mitigation) for a while until it blew up in their faces

Bludd wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 08:21:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 07:56:

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

There has only been one microcode fix for a bug they found related to their investigations with regard to the reported instabilities and that was rolled out on or around July 12th (ASUS). It was a bug concerning the eTVB (thermal velocity boost) and Intel themselves said that it might merely be a contributor but not the root cause of the RPL/RPL-R instabilities.

The other microcode fix that is going to fix the "elevated voltages", which Intel pinned down as the alleged actual root cause very recently, is going to be released some time this month (probably after the AMD NDA expires because Intel, those fuckers, want the media to compare Zen 5 to the pre-microcode 13th/14th gen benchmarks in their reviews... always up to dirty tricks those sleazy bastages ).

There is apparently no alternative fix. Intel claims and admits that the elevated voltages are the root cause and those voltages are causing accelerated degradation so anyone with a 13th/14th gen desktop CPU should most definitely install the latest BIOS ASAP when it comes out later this month because there is no telling how much your CPU has already degraded or how close it may be to showing symptoms, i.e. tipping over the instability edge.

thats not strictly true, intel have been releasing microcode updates since early 2023 which have tweaked voltages but that was before the public knew anything about these issues. but the microcode we are waiting for is the one that intel has stated will solve the problem with the cpu requesting too high voltages. there is fear that they will do that without sophistication but who knows

Well, of course, I was only referring to the microcode fixes related to the reported instability issues as that is what the question of @VaranDragon was presumably asking about. I thought it unnecessary to mention the entire BIOS release history as naturally many BIOS versions contain microcode changes, fixes or updates.

But if anyone is interested in the full history then here is an ASUS example (make sure to expand the list for the entire BIOS revision history). The release notes with regard to the microcode updates are basically the same for each Z790 board.
Every (older) Z790 ASUS board is now on version 2402 while the newer ones like the Apex Encore or Hero BTF are on version 1402. ASUS have unified this stuff and their versioning to a great deal.

RogueSix wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 07:56:

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

There has only been one microcode fix for a bug they found related to their investigations with regard to the reported instabilities and that was rolled out on or around July 12th (ASUS). It was a bug concerning the eTVB (thermal velocity boost) and Intel themselves said that it might merely be a contributor but not the root cause of the RPL/RPL-R instabilities.

The other microcode fix that is going to fix the "elevated voltages", which Intel pinned down as the alleged actual root cause very recently, is going to be released some time this month (probably after the AMD NDA expires because Intel, those fuckers, want the media to compare Zen 5 to the pre-microcode 13th/14th gen benchmarks in their reviews... always up to dirty tricks those sleazy bastages ).

There is apparently no alternative fix. Intel claims and admits that the elevated voltages are the root cause and those voltages are causing accelerated degradation so anyone with a 13th/14th gen desktop CPU should most definitely install the latest BIOS ASAP when it comes out later this month because there is no telling how much your CPU has already degraded or how close it may be to showing symptoms, i.e. tipping over the instability edge.

thats not strictly true, intel have been releasing microcode updates since early 2023 which have tweaked voltages but that was before the public knew anything about these issues. but the microcode we are waiting for is the one that intel has stated will solve the problem with the cpu requesting too high voltages. there is fear that they will do that without sophistication but who knows

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

There has only been one microcode fix for a bug they found related to their investigations with regard to the reported instabilities and that was rolled out on or around July 12th (ASUS). It was a bug concerning the eTVB (thermal velocity boost) and Intel themselves said that it might merely be a contributor but not the root cause of the RPL/RPL-R instabilities.

The other microcode fix that is going to fix the "elevated voltages", which Intel pinned down as the alleged actual root cause very recently, is going to be released some time this month (probably after the AMD NDA expires because Intel, those fuckers, want the media to compare Zen 5 to the pre-microcode 13th/14th gen benchmarks in their reviews... always up to dirty tricks those sleazy bastages ).

There is apparently no alternative fix. Intel claims and admits that the elevated voltages are the root cause and those voltages are causing accelerated degradation so anyone with a 13th/14th gen desktop CPU should most definitely install the latest BIOS ASAP when it comes out later this month because there is no telling how much your CPU has already degraded or how close it may be to showing symptoms, i.e. tipping over the instability edge.

VaranDragon wrote on Aug 7, 2024, 04:38:
Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

update to latest bios, even if its beta and do it now. the newest bios will have the latest fixes but the fix for the bugged voltages will come in a week at the earliest from microsoft. there are different ways to distribute microcode. it can come via windows update or a bios update. hopefully mobo vendors will quickly roll out new bios versions

Did Intel update any of their microcode yet? I'm running an i5-13600K, and I have not seen any problems but I do worry that newer games might give me trouble. Should I download new MB bios to fix these issues, is there some other way that Intel will fix this at all?

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 18:00:
I remember the unresponsibles blaming intel's failure to have stability on Epic and the Unreal Engine.

Before WE knew what the ACTUAL problem was. Hindsight is 20/20.

Zero issues on my build (Ryzen 5800X, RTX 4070 FE, Win11 etc.) 165Hz Gsync etc enabled. Great driver. Can confirm it fixed that Nvidia container bug as noted in change log too.

Well I dodged THAT bullet.

12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-12600KF running here and for the foreseeable future I guess. Maybe I go with AMD next system build.

I remember the unresponsibles blaming intel's failure to have stability on Epic and the Unreal Engine.

It's irresponsible to group NVIDIA into Intel's mess when NVIDIA had nothing to do with the processor issues or Intel's manufacturing defects.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 15:11:
<Pats his trusty old 3700X based system gently>
That's a good girl.

no bodie likes a filthie braggarte
/JOKE

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 16:16:

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 16:01:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:52:

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:46:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

i just installed this over the old driver and it didnt throw any errors at all

Congratz on a NOT YET degraded enough Intel CPU then. The emphasis lies on NOT YET!

ive taken precautions by lowering the multipliers for p/e cores to 50/40 and setting cpu lite load to level 9 and i have limited the cpu to use max 180 watt. cpu voltage and cpu vid seems to not go above 1.3 with these settings so hopefully my 13900kf wont have been too much degraded by this crap

since its summer and hot i dont want to play the most demanding games anyway, ive just been stardew valley'ing

Well, I guess I'm "lucky" in so far as the nVidia installer failing sporadically (doesn't happen every drivers release) is the ONLY issue I have with my system. Everything else is 100% stable and in working condition. And I refuse to castrate my CPU. The only settings I have changed is that I have disabled ASUS' MCE and limited the PL2 to 253W (instead of ASUS' unlimited 4096W). That's it. These settings correspond with Intel's 'extreme' defaults which should be working 100% fine for a K CPU.

To be fair to my CPU (and Intel), I should probably clean-install Windows 11 to make sure that this isn't actually some software issue. I dunno if anyone else with a degraded CPU only has this isolated nVidia installer issue. It might not even be related.
That's what sucks so much about this fiasco in general. It is very hard to track down. I guess you can only be sure that your CPU is toast if it crashes on compiling shaders or if you get the "out of video memory" error but I have never seen anything like that and games are also rock stable. So... meh.

i totally intend to go back to more cpu horsepower when i get a new bios with a confirmed good microcode and no dangerous spikes in cpu voltage

what annoys me is that i waited to update my bios for quite a while because msi only had a beta bios out and i wasnt keen on it but i finally bit the bullet. i dont think its helpful that they labeled it beta when they presumably want people to install it

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 16:01:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:52:

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:46:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

i just installed this over the old driver and it didnt throw any errors at all

Congratz on a NOT YET degraded enough Intel CPU then. The emphasis lies on NOT YET!

ive taken precautions by lowering the multipliers for p/e cores to 50/40 and setting cpu lite load to level 9 and i have limited the cpu to use max 180 watt. cpu voltage and cpu vid seems to not go above 1.3 with these settings so hopefully my 13900kf wont have been too much degraded by this crap

since its summer and hot i dont want to play the most demanding games anyway, ive just been stardew valley'ing

Well, I guess I'm "lucky" in so far as the nVidia installer failing sporadically (doesn't happen every drivers release) is the ONLY issue I have with my system. Everything else is 100% stable and in working condition. And I refuse to castrate my CPU. The only settings I have changed is that I have disabled ASUS' MCE and limited the PL2 to 253W (instead of ASUS' unlimited 4096W). That's it. These settings correspond with Intel's 'extreme' defaults which should be working 100% fine for a K CPU.

To be fair to my CPU (and Intel), I should probably clean-install Windows 11 to make sure that this isn't actually some software issue. I dunno if anyone else with a degraded CPU only has this isolated nVidia installer issue. It might not even be related.
That's what sucks so much about this fiasco in general. It is very hard to track down. I guess you can only be sure that your CPU is toast if it crashes on compiling shaders or if you get the "out of video memory" error but I have never seen anything like that and games are also rock stable. So... meh.

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:52:

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:46:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

i just installed this over the old driver and it didnt throw any errors at all

Congratz on a NOT YET degraded enough Intel CPU then. The emphasis lies on NOT YET!

ive taken precautions by lowering the multipliers for p/e cores to 50/40 and setting cpu lite load to level 9 and i have limited the cpu to use max 180 watt. cpu voltage and cpu vid seems to not go above 1.3 with these settings so hopefully my 13900kf wont have been too much degraded by this crap

since its summer and hot i dont want to play the most demanding games anyway, ive just been stardew valley'ing

<Pats his trusty old 3700X based system gently>

That's a good girl.

Bludd wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 14:46:

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

i just installed this over the old driver and it didnt throw any errors at all

Congratz on a NOT YET degraded enough Intel CPU then. The emphasis lies on NOT YET!

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

i just installed this over the old driver and it didnt throw any errors at all

RogueSix wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 13:30:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 6, 2024, 12:16:
¿ Is this the driver that doesn't crash with an Intel processor?

We shall find out in a bittle lit .

EDIT: The son of a bitch croaked at least half a dozen times with the non-descript nVidia installer failed error message. It once again did so at various points during the setup (my manual clean install method after extracting the drivers *.exe). Annoyingly on the 2nd attempt or so, it croaked right after it uninstalled the old drivers package since I always do a clean install. This prompted Windows 11 to download and install the default nVidia drivers in the background.
Then, without rebooting in between or anything, the fucker went through as if there had never been an issue in the first place.

Sooo annoying... hurry the fuck up, AMD! Zen 5 + X870E pronto! Prontissimo, per favore. Stop jerking off and release yo shit!

Have you tried Nvidia’s beta driver, it’s supposed to fix the issue.
bwahahahaha
That was a joke, I am teh funneh.