Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:47:

Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:27:
All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab,

that's where it probably came from.

Both from the same sentence, so which is it? "all the evidence points to it" or it "probably" came from there?

Why do native English speaking people conflate evidence with proof? 😂

Let's put it this way: despite all the available evidence, it's still not conclusive enough to prove that the COVID-19 outbreak is guilty beyond reasonable doubt of being caused by a lab leak 😜 At least that's the judgement of a selected, politically motivated and pressured jury.

Beamer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 21:51:

Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:27:

Beamer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:41:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:39:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:08:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 21:35:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 14:34:
To date, we've had dozens of deadly viruses jump from animals to humans.
We've had none go from labs to humans.

That's a ridiculous claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.

I'm sorry, I should have had "proven" there.
How many viruses have been proven to have escaped a lab?
And do you doubt that hundreds, or more likely hundreds of thousands, have jumped from animals to humans?

Oh God, where do you think hiv came from?

Ah, yes, here come the goalposts, whizzing by!

Not really. Nothing matters unless proven. Can you, or will you ever be able to, prove that COVID came from a lab?

No. So why are people saying it with certainty? You'll notice I didn't say it didn't, I said we had no evidence. Evidence means proof, btw.

Will you tell me we've had viruses escape from labs become global pandemics before? What percentage of global pandemics would you say escaped from a lab? 10%? 1%? 0.0000001%?

Bruh, You are the one saying with certainty that no virus ever escaped from a lab. Talk about hypocritical.

All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab, thus by all rational means of deduction, that's where it probably came from. At this point in time, there is no other, better theory.

And you end with more goalpost moving, typical. 🙄

I said I misspoke and meant has been proven.

Meanwhile, you say "all evidence." What evidence?


There's no goalposts moving. Jesus. I misspoke and admitted that when you called me out. But you can't prove any virus has come from a lab, and we know at best very few have. And yet "all evidence..."
You're speaking conclusively. I am not.

What do you want to do with that "all evidence?" Do you want to hold China accountable?

"Will you tell me we've had viruses escape from labs become global pandemics before? What percentage of global pandemics would you say escaped from a lab? 10%? 1%? 0.0000001%"

Is literally you moving the goalposts LOL. How man and whether they became global pandemics is irrelevant. You said no virus has ever escaped a lab. According to who? You? Government officials that are known to lie and have been caught doing so? The claim that nothing has ever escaped a lab has absolutely nothing backing it up. It's a claim made out of hand, and like that, can be dismissed out of hand just as easily.

I don't need to prove anything to you, I'm not here to debate, nor provide links for individuals that are (supposedly) able to do that for themselves. There's been plenty of time for anyone to have done that by now, and it's clear that opposing viewpoint are interested in any I'd offer anyways, because they're not interesting in a debate either.

Besides, I already stated that this is a judgement of my own based on all the evidence available. When something becomes the most simple and obvious answer, it is most likely to be the one that's true. Simple as that.

Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:27:

Beamer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:41:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:39:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:08:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 21:35:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 14:34:
To date, we've had dozens of deadly viruses jump from animals to humans.
We've had none go from labs to humans.

That's a ridiculous claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.

I'm sorry, I should have had "proven" there.
How many viruses have been proven to have escaped a lab?
And do you doubt that hundreds, or more likely hundreds of thousands, have jumped from animals to humans?

Oh God, where do you think hiv came from?

Ah, yes, here come the goalposts, whizzing by!

Not really. Nothing matters unless proven. Can you, or will you ever be able to, prove that COVID came from a lab?

No. So why are people saying it with certainty? You'll notice I didn't say it didn't, I said we had no evidence. Evidence means proof, btw.

Will you tell me we've had viruses escape from labs become global pandemics before? What percentage of global pandemics would you say escaped from a lab? 10%? 1%? 0.0000001%?

Bruh, You are the one saying with certainty that no virus ever escaped from a lab. Talk about hypocritical.

All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab, thus by all rational means of deduction, that's where it probably came from. At this point in time, there is no other, better theory.

And you end with more goalpost moving, typical. 🙄

I said I misspoke and meant has been proven.

Meanwhile, you say "all evidence." What evidence?


There's no goalposts moving. Jesus. I misspoke and admitted that when you called me out. But you can't prove any virus has come from a lab, and we know at best very few have. And yet "all evidence..."
You're speaking conclusively. I am not.

What do you want to do with that "all evidence?" Do you want to hold China accountable?

Mr. Tact wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:47:

Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:27:
All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab,

that's where it probably came from.

Both from the same sentence, so which is it? "all the evidence points to it" or it "probably" came from there?

Neither of those sentences are mutually exclusive.

Razumen wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 20:27:
All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab,

that's where it probably came from.

Both from the same sentence, so which is it? "all the evidence points to it" or it "probably" came from there?

Beamer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:41:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:39:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:08:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 21:35:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 14:34:
To date, we've had dozens of deadly viruses jump from animals to humans.
We've had none go from labs to humans.

That's a ridiculous claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.

I'm sorry, I should have had "proven" there.
How many viruses have been proven to have escaped a lab?
And do you doubt that hundreds, or more likely hundreds of thousands, have jumped from animals to humans?

Oh God, where do you think hiv came from?

Ah, yes, here come the goalposts, whizzing by!

Not really. Nothing matters unless proven. Can you, or will you ever be able to, prove that COVID came from a lab?

No. So why are people saying it with certainty? You'll notice I didn't say it didn't, I said we had no evidence. Evidence means proof, btw.

Will you tell me we've had viruses escape from labs become global pandemics before? What percentage of global pandemics would you say escaped from a lab? 10%? 1%? 0.0000001%?

Bruh, You are the one saying with certainty that no virus ever escaped from a lab. Talk about hypocritical.

All the evidence points to it coming from the Wuhan lab, thus by all rational means of deduction, that's where it probably came from. At this point in time, there is no other, better theory.

And you end with more goalpost moving, typical. 🙄

Prez wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 08:52:

Being real here... it's an act. A very well-rehearsed, well-practiced act. I love everyone and I truly believe that we are so hateful to one another, but I think that the reason that I live my life on the Internet is because of how terrible I am at actual relationships or just casual socializing. Recently someone here emailed me and asked if I wanted to get together in person. I politely declined, but inside I was terrified at the thought. You can't carefully construct the you that you want people to know IRL. At least I can't. On the occasion that I have met internet friends in person almost all of them say that I am very different IRL. Through years of living with abusive parents I have become very good at figuring out how to hide the real me. Very, very rarely do I actually allow myself to just be me, and very often I end up wishing I hadn't. I've always thought that my outer armor was near perfect, that no one could penetrate it as long as I kept people at a distance. Now I can't do that anymore because of the stroke and how badly that fucked me up. I guess in a weird way the stroke and permanent disability had a silver lining. I can't hide anymore.

Sorry about all of this self-important rambling. I have no one else to listen. I have another meeting with the psychologist today, doing that telemedicine thing. At least I can do it while wearing nothing but my socks.

Usually, the internet brings out the worst in folks, not the best.

As someone who tries to carefully consider the words I post online, I get the idea that you're able to put your best self forward through text. That said, I believe that you can't really hide your core personality or pretend to be someone else consistently for the decades you've posted here. At your core, you're a good person, and that comes through whether you think you're faking it or not. Interestingly you've been even more cogent and thoughtful since your stroke, but perhaps that's just coinciding with the maturation we all go through as we age.

I've met a few "internet friends" IRL, and they all tended to be pretty similar to their online personas. Anecdotal, but I bet you're a great person in person as well as online.

Overon wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 13:43:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:46:

Overon wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 16:36:

Indeed solve one problem but create a much bigger problem. No doubt injecting bleach into your body would no doubt kill the coronavirus but it would kill you too. There are ways to mitigate forest fires and prescribed burns and raking some of those ways. An "all of of the above" approach is needed if we are serious about it. Some places that is indeed feasible but you can't rake everywhere there is just too much forest. You have to prioritize and maximize what you can do for the biggest impact.

That's why you need something to kill the virus while protecting the host. Viruses are parasitic, relying on the host to reproduce, so an anti-parasitic should work fine. Something like Ivermectin should take care of it.

As for raking the forests, just build robots to do it. Get super-engineer Elon on that problem, stat!

I think you are being sarcastic!

Guilty!

jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:46:

Overon wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 16:36:

Indeed solve one problem but create a much bigger problem. No doubt injecting bleach into your body would no doubt kill the coronavirus but it would kill you too. There are ways to mitigate forest fires and prescribed burns and raking some of those ways. An "all of of the above" approach is needed if we are serious about it. Some places that is indeed feasible but you can't rake everywhere there is just too much forest. You have to prioritize and maximize what you can do for the biggest impact.

That's why you need something to kill the virus while protecting the host. Viruses are parasitic, relying on the host to reproduce, so an anti-parasitic should work fine. Something like Ivermectin should take care of it.

As for raking the forests, just build robots to do it. Get super-engineer Elon on that problem, stat!

I think you are being sarcastic!

Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 12:24:
* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jul 31, 2024, 12:44. Reason: Fighting

Thanks for being consistent by removing the other dude's comment too. No sarcasm.

Please note that when I do it it's reactionary. I won't allow people talking shit about me and lying in the process. Especially since it's never getting moderated unless I react.

Prez wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 08:52:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:50:

Prez wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 17:03:
It is pretty crazy being me. I'm reading all of the comments about COVID, and I think "well, you have to die of something". I'm reading all of the comments about the wildfire in CA and I am like "I don't think that it matters much to the wildlife or the people who will lose everything what is the primary cause". And I think to myself, why am I so removed from the world? Sure I had a stroke but I have been like this my entire life more or less. The stroke just turned everything into a living hell. There's something wrong with me, and there has been for my whole life that the stroke can't be blamed for.

I just saw the doctor and was told that I need further evaluation but it is likely that I am autistic. I'm 54 fucking years old, I have been in mental health programs, hospitals, and therapy since my 20's. I've destroyed every personal relationship I have ever had and I isolate myself from anyone and everyone because I am terrified of any social interaction and don't want to hurt anyone else or be hurt myself anymore. I have no life, and that was true before the stroke. So now, after living through drug addiction, alcoholism, active attempts at suicide, suicide ideation that has been prevalent since I was in my teens... now after everything is lost, I find out that I likely have been living with untreated autism since birth.

If you are sitting there wondering how the hell could I could go through 54 years and all of that without being diagnosed, well join the club. I'm as dumbfounded as you are.

So weird to read that. You strike me as one of the most normal and even-keeled person on this site. And quite social as well, forming bonds through common interests and humor.

Being real here... it's an act. A very well-rehearsed, well-practiced act. I love everyone and I truly believe that we are so hateful to one another, but I think that the reason that I live my life on the Internet is because of how terrible I am at actual relationships or just casual socializing. Recently someone here emailed me and asked if I wanted to get together in person. I politely declined, but inside I was terrified at the thought. You can't carefully construct the you that you want people to know IRL. At least I can't. On the occasion that I have met internet friends in person almost all of them say that I am very different IRL. Through years of living with abusive parents I have become very good at figuring out how to hide the real me. Very, very rarely do I actually allow myself to just be me, and very often I end up wishing I hadn't. I've always thought that my outer armor was near perfect, that no one could penetrate it as long as I kept people at a distance. Now I can't do that anymore because of the stroke and how badly that fucked me up. I guess in a weird way the stroke and permanent disability had a silver lining. I can't hide anymore.

Sorry about all of this self-important rambling. I have no one else to listen. I have another meeting with the psychologist today, doing that telemedicine thing. At least I can do it while wearing nothing but my socks.

How open you are right now is humbling to the rest of us, imo, and very uncommon on the Internet. Keep it up, mate. Connect. And if you don't feel like it, start up XCOM or Borderlands and shoot some aliens.

I was very closed in the past. Until a very tight team offshore demanded of me to build a second family. Now I'm very open IRL, and in fact love that human connection with others. My mother is exactly like that times two. When I was younger, I thought it was fucking awkward how she told total strangers about how she found her dog in the Italian mountains into the fine details, but I was also always surprised how these total strangers opened up within a minute and started speaking from the heart as well. It's very contagious and heart-warming, and apparently the apple didn't fall far from the tree as I catch myself in those awkward mom moments too since the last couple of years. Can't wait to see my two daughters face-palm at such scenes when they grow a bit older. Fucking poetic 😂

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jul 31, 2024, 12:44. Reason: Personal attacks (rule 1)

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jul 31, 2024, 12:44. Reason: Fighting

Prez wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 08:52:

Sorry about all of this self-important rambling. I have no one else to listen. I have another meeting with the psychologist today, doing that telemedicine thing. At least I can do it while wearing nothing but my socks.

10% of the posts here are our own personal self-important ramblings about our own issues, 80% are us complaining about games in a way related to our own self-important ramblings about our own issues, and a final 10% is actual game discussion.

This place is often referred to as a Community, and that term is used for a reason. It's a place where various sized nuts and bolts gather because we like each other.

Prez wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 08:52:

jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:50:

Prez wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 17:03:
It is pretty crazy being me. I'm reading all of the comments about COVID, and I think "well, you have to die of something". I'm reading all of the comments about the wildfire in CA and I am like "I don't think that it matters much to the wildlife or the people who will lose everything what is the primary cause". And I think to myself, why am I so removed from the world? Sure I had a stroke but I have been like this my entire life more or less. The stroke just turned everything into a living hell. There's something wrong with me, and there has been for my whole life that the stroke can't be blamed for.

I just saw the doctor and was told that I need further evaluation but it is likely that I am autistic. I'm 54 fucking years old, I have been in mental health programs, hospitals, and therapy since my 20's. I've destroyed every personal relationship I have ever had and I isolate myself from anyone and everyone because I am terrified of any social interaction and don't want to hurt anyone else or be hurt myself anymore. I have no life, and that was true before the stroke. So now, after living through drug addiction, alcoholism, active attempts at suicide, suicide ideation that has been prevalent since I was in my teens... now after everything is lost, I find out that I likely have been living with untreated autism since birth.

If you are sitting there wondering how the hell could I could go through 54 years and all of that without being diagnosed, well join the club. I'm as dumbfounded as you are.

So weird to read that. You strike me as one of the most normal and even-keeled person on this site. And quite social as well, forming bonds through common interests and humor.

Being real here... it's an act. A very well-rehearsed, well-practiced act. I love everyone and I truly believe that we are so hateful to one another, but I think that the reason that I live my life on the Internet is because of how terrible I am at actual relationships or just casual socializing. Recently someone here emailed me and asked if I wanted to get together in person. I politely declined, but inside I was terrified at the thought. You can't carefully construct the you that you want people to know IRL. At least I can't. On the occasion that I have met internet friends in person almost all of them say that I am very different IRL. Through years of living with abusive parents I have become very good at figuring out how to hide the real me. Very, very rarely do I actually allow myself to just be me, and very often I end up wishing I hadn't. I've always thought that my outer armor was near perfect, that no one could penetrate it as long as I kept people at a distance. Now I can't do that anymore because of the stroke and how badly that fucked me up. I guess in a weird way the stroke and permanent disability had a silver lining. I can't hide anymore.

Sorry about all of this self-important rambling. I have no one else to listen. I have another meeting with the psychologist today, doing that telemedicine thing. At least I can do it while wearing nothing but my socks.

I agree with the others that you seem to have some of the most based opinions and thoughts on the forum. Reading about your personal challenges is probably the most fascinating thing I've seen here on BN. Incredibly brave of you to share yourself so nakedly with us, I admire that.

jdreyer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:50:

Prez wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 17:03:
It is pretty crazy being me. I'm reading all of the comments about COVID, and I think "well, you have to die of something". I'm reading all of the comments about the wildfire in CA and I am like "I don't think that it matters much to the wildlife or the people who will lose everything what is the primary cause". And I think to myself, why am I so removed from the world? Sure I had a stroke but I have been like this my entire life more or less. The stroke just turned everything into a living hell. There's something wrong with me, and there has been for my whole life that the stroke can't be blamed for.

I just saw the doctor and was told that I need further evaluation but it is likely that I am autistic. I'm 54 fucking years old, I have been in mental health programs, hospitals, and therapy since my 20's. I've destroyed every personal relationship I have ever had and I isolate myself from anyone and everyone because I am terrified of any social interaction and don't want to hurt anyone else or be hurt myself anymore. I have no life, and that was true before the stroke. So now, after living through drug addiction, alcoholism, active attempts at suicide, suicide ideation that has been prevalent since I was in my teens... now after everything is lost, I find out that I likely have been living with untreated autism since birth.

If you are sitting there wondering how the hell could I could go through 54 years and all of that without being diagnosed, well join the club. I'm as dumbfounded as you are.

So weird to read that. You strike me as one of the most normal and even-keeled person on this site. And quite social as well, forming bonds through common interests and humor.

Being real here... it's an act. A very well-rehearsed, well-practiced act. I love everyone and I truly believe that we are so hateful to one another, but I think that the reason that I live my life on the Internet is because of how terrible I am at actual relationships or just casual socializing. Recently someone here emailed me and asked if I wanted to get together in person. I politely declined, but inside I was terrified at the thought. You can't carefully construct the you that you want people to know IRL. At least I can't. On the occasion that I have met internet friends in person almost all of them say that I am very different IRL. Through years of living with abusive parents I have become very good at figuring out how to hide the real me. Very, very rarely do I actually allow myself to just be me, and very often I end up wishing I hadn't. I've always thought that my outer armor was near perfect, that no one could penetrate it as long as I kept people at a distance. Now I can't do that anymore because of the stroke and how badly that fucked me up. I guess in a weird way the stroke and permanent disability had a silver lining. I can't hide anymore.

Sorry about all of this self-important rambling. I have no one else to listen. I have another meeting with the psychologist today, doing that telemedicine thing. At least I can do it while wearing nothing but my socks.

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jul 31, 2024, 12:43. Reason: Personal attacks (rule 1)

Beamer wrote on Jul 31, 2024, 06:41:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:39:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 22:08:

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 21:35:

Beamer wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 14:34:
To date, we've had dozens of deadly viruses jump from animals to humans.
We've had none go from labs to humans.

That's a ridiculous claim with absolutely nothing to back it up.

I'm sorry, I should have had "proven" there.
How many viruses have been proven to have escaped a lab?
And do you doubt that hundreds, or more likely hundreds of thousands, have jumped from animals to humans?

Oh God, where do you think hiv came from?

Ah, yes, here come the goalposts, whizzing by!

Not really. Nothing matters unless proven. Can you, or will you ever be able to, prove that COVID came from a lab?

No. So why are people saying it with certainty? You'll notice I didn't say it didn't, I said we had no evidence. Evidence means proof, btw.

Allow the guy who's mother language isn't English to correct you:

Evidence contributes to proving something, but proof is the final establishment of truth, often reached by compiling enough evidence to make an irrefutable case.

You said the likelihood of it coming from a lab was as unlikely as the existence of god. This is bullshit, as there is circumstantial evidence that supports the hypothesis of a lableak as I've mentioned earlier including links.

Prez wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 17:03:
It is pretty crazy being me. I'm reading all of the comments about COVID, and I think "well, you have to die of something". I'm reading all of the comments about the wildfire in CA and I am like "I don't think that it matters much to the wildlife or the people who will lose everything what is the primary cause". And I think to myself, why am I so removed from the world? Sure I had a stroke but I have been like this my entire life more or less. The stroke just turned everything into a living hell. There's something wrong with me, and there has been for my whole life that the stroke can't be blamed for.

I just saw the doctor and was told that I need further evaluation but it is likely that I am autistic. I'm 54 fucking years old, I have been in mental health programs, hospitals, and therapy since my 20's. I've destroyed every personal relationship I have ever had and I isolate myself from anyone and everyone because I am terrified of any social interaction and don't want to hurt anyone else or be hurt myself anymore. I have no life, and that was true before the stroke. So now, after living through drug addiction, alcoholism, active attempts at suicide, suicide ideation that has been prevalent since I was in my teens... now after everything is lost, I find out that I likely have been living with untreated autism since birth.

If you are sitting there wondering how the hell could I could go through 54 years and all of that without being diagnosed, well join the club. I'm as dumbfounded as you are.

So weird to read that. You strike me as one of the most normal and even-keeled person on this site. And quite social as well, forming bonds through common interests and humor.

Overon wrote on Jul 30, 2024, 16:36:

Indeed solve one problem but create a much bigger problem. No doubt injecting bleach into your body would no doubt kill the coronavirus but it would kill you too. There are ways to mitigate forest fires and prescribed burns and raking some of those ways. An "all of of the above" approach is needed if we are serious about it. Some places that is indeed feasible but you can't rake everywhere there is just too much forest. You have to prioritize and maximize what you can do for the biggest impact.

That's why you need something to kill the virus while protecting the host. Viruses are parasitic, relying on the host to reproduce, so an anti-parasitic should work fine. Something like Ivermectin should take care of it.

As for raking the forests, just build robots to do it. Get super-engineer Elon on that problem, stat!