There are exceptions - System Shock 2 being a recent example, but don't hold your breath for most games. Developers just don't see it being all that popular. Whether this is due to overall statistics or just a lack of recent games that have it, it probably up for debate.

Yay, Nerve! (assuming their new secret-no-longer id collaboration is more cooperative than it is multiplayer...)

-Devster

Are you guys all forgetting about Serious Sam? That game has a very cool coop mode.

My thoughts exactly. Why do people keep pulling out Daikatana? Just because it was shit?

Anyways, when I play coop, I really don't pay much attention to the story-line. That's not the point. The point is to kill ingame characters at a high difficulty-level together with a couple of friends, as you've already run through the game atleast once on your own, marvelling at its beauty and enjoying the storyline.

Damn, I still play coop Quake 1! It's so unbelievably cool to face hordes of mindless monsters with a couple of friends.

My take on making a coop game of today: Skip cinematics and other non-interesting/-important events. With a clever brain (which game designers/coders usually have) one can make a good coop experience, even though the singleplayer side of the game has some scripted events.

Like I said, I'd rather have a 1/2 arsed shafted in tacked on coop mode that 'works' than no coop mode at all.

And sure, that's likely the first step to getting co-op recognized as distinctive from "team games" like Rainbow6 or Counterstrike or Tribes. Team games have an appeal, of course, but they're less story oriented, and more oriented towards quick hits (partly, I suspect, because of the logistics involved in getting six or seven of your mates aroun' at the same time to go against six or seven other blokes).

not enough people are into coop to warrant putting in that much work to make a coop mode for these games.

Possibly. What we need is a genre defining/busting title, like Half-Life did for single player story driven games a couple years back (geez, has it been that long?).

You know, this is exactly the type of thing that Tom Hall and John Romero should be shopping around to publishers (to stray into another thread). Something new, that we know at least some of the gaming public are interested in. A new style of game, yeah it's a little risky, but it could have good returns (even if you go with "CD spawning" like WarcraftII so people don't need to buy two copies).

It's just the kind of story driven thing a new development shop might be able to excel in. License an engine from someone, plan it out, then build it. Then come from out of nowhere (again like genre (re)definers like Half-Life or Command & Conquer) and WOW games. Or even an existing shop like Warren Specter's crew, or id or these Nerve fellows.

Ainh. Takes too much industry initiative for this too happen.

-Devster

PS I seem to have written a lot about this; perhaps a journal op-ed is in order.

thats the thing though, not enough people are into coop to warrant putting in that much work to make a coop mode for these games. So I say just shaft it in, because other than that game companies don't think its important enough to plan it into the game and stuff. So they just leave it out. Like I said, I'd rather have a 1/2 arsed shafted in tacked on coop mode that 'works' than no coop mode at all.

• If you want to add it in and have it make SENSE, then yes, it is very difficult, because you have to explain why there are other heroes running around with the maing character.

• Sure it doesnt make sense, and it might not flow with the story, but if it means having cooperative play and not having cooperative play, then I think they should just do it.

Sorry, but if I want co-op, I want it done right, not ½ arsed. No musical interlude while I watch my cohort trigger a scripted event. In today's story driven games, as loonie alluded, it just won't fly. Sure having an extra grunt around made a degree of sense in Quake2 or DooM, but (as the Monkees would say) that was then, and this is now.

Co-op has to be all about the story, and all about teamwork. It's not about compensating by doubling the ammo, health and baddies. If someone wanted to go out and make a good co-op story, I'm sure they could do so - tandem goals, objectives that could only be achieved by well-coordinated teamwork.

Sounds a lot like CounterStrike or Team Fortress, doesn't it, but needing a real plot. I think that as home LANs grow in popularity, and communication tools in the vein of Game Commander become more prevalent, yeah, we'll see a decent attempt at a co-op game. But there's more to it, as I said, then just tacking a new spawn point in on the first level.

It has to be about the experience, not just how fast we can run & gun through all the levels and finding all the secrets - I'm making an investment in getting a game and setting up whatever hardware I need to for good co-op (I'm leaving 'net-play out of it for now, but that's equally possible), and so is my chum. not to mention the time investment; I want hours of play value - I want to play until the wee hours of the evening, enthralled with the game.

Some of the above applies to what is desired from a good single-player game, of course, and what people need to realize about my viewpoint is that I feel to successfully build in a co-op mode (or an entire co-op game) that the fans will appreciate, developers need to embrace & extend the single player approach.

-Devster
(edited because I forgot to close one of them formatting tags. )
This comment was edited on Aug 8, 11:46.

Heh, the last FPS to have co-op play was... dare I say it...? Daikatana.

Errm. Are you guys all forgetting about Serious Sam? That game has a very cool coop mode. Nothings more fun than fighting against thousands of Kleer Skeletons with some of you friends

no!!!! It can never die!!! I played system shock 2 on coop and I loved it!

Its NOT that hard to add it in. . . they just say that because they don't think its worth the effort. If you want to add it in and have it make SENSE, then yes, it is very difficult, because you have to explain why there are other heroes running around with the maing character. But the thing is, this is not what we are asking for in coop! Just slap it in there! Just have scripted events happen with which ever character triggers them!? Then pause the game and show the event to all players just like in single player mode. So what if it doesnt make sense that theres 3 clones of the main character. You dont have to try to explain it, or fit it into the story. People who want to play coop wont care. So. . . this is Gordon freeman and his two twin brothers uhm, Bob and Jon. Yea thats it. See? That wasnt too hard. . .

Just throw in the starting points and thats it. I REALLY dont think its THAT hard to implement. You know Rebellion, the guys that did the first Aliens vs Predator game said they couldn't do COOP multiplayer in the single player levels because it wasn't built into the game that way, they said it was IMPOSSIBLE to do. Well, a few weeks after the games release someone on the net found out that if you just rename the single player maps to the names of the multiplayer maps, then start up a coop game and go to one of the multiplayer specific maps (which is now actually the single player map in disguise) then you could play the single player missions on COOP.

Thats all I have to say about that. . .

Now I know that its a totally different game, and that each game has its own way of doing things and that this particular instance doesnt exactly apply to other games. I just really dont think its THAT hard to throw in extra player starts in into the single player missions. I mean, cutscenes, can be displayed to all players whenever someone triggers it. And scripted events will just have to happen to whatever characters are present to see them. Just throw in a console command or an ability to automatically teleport to one of the other players in case you get left behind or stuck. If a doorway or hallway is scripted to collapse in order to prevent going back, then players that are stuck behind could just use this special command to teleport next to a specified player who made it through.

Sure it doesnt make sense, and it might not flow with the story, but if it means having cooperative play and not having cooperative play, then I think they should just do it.

So B.J. Blazcowitz breaks into castle wolfenstein. . . and just so happens that his friends steve and bob and jon made it through with him. . . so what? I wouldn't care really if the story didn't acknowledge the existence of a couple coop partners.

You see, that's just it right there. Co-op is not something that can be added at the end of development, you really have to design for it from the start nowadays. And like loony said, there really doesn't seem to be much of a market for it. After SS2's co-op play was added in a patch, no one ever played it. I liked playing doom II co-op just as much as the next gamer, but it's time to move on and admit that it's dead.

That's awfully damn discouraging

I just don't get what's so difficult about adding Co-Op (my bad "COOP")?

It seems fairly easy. Rather than script the game [ because that's what all the code monkeys use java or C++ sripted engines] to have a single trigger reslting in *that* single linear outcome make the game(s) based on a nolinear system so if you encounter a key trigger and some one else is elsewhere it will have broader area of effect and more alternate endings. Problem solved

[I CAN"T WAIT TIL NEVER WINTER'S NIGHT SCRIPTING/ ENGINE COMES OUT :). I'm going to build monster module.

Gee. I wish one of the Whizzes at Epic or Monolith would address this concern on the post. It couldn't be as simple as my mind thinks.

Have you played Heretic II? It had a great co-op mode. Actually, I had a lot more fun playing it co-op with friend's than I've had playing any other game on the PC in the last 5 years.

Heh, the last FPS to have co-op play was... dare I say it...? Daikatana. And the coop was probably the best thing about the game...

Even System Shock 2 didn't have co-op at release...

I know hardcore co-op fans hate to hear it, but co-op is VERY difficult to implement into any story-driven FPS. It was a snap with Doom, since it was just wave after wave of enemies, but to tell a story with more than one person present is just a huge commitment, and statistically most gamers don't play co-op, which is why more games don't have it.

There are exceptions - System Shock 2 being a recent example, but don't hold your breath for most games. Developers just don't see it being all that popular. Whether this is due to overall statistics or just a lack of recent games that have it, it probably up for debate.

-jason

uhm, sorry to say but Aliens vs Predator 2 is NOT going to have cooperative. . .

They said it was too hard to do because of the heavy single player driven focus. . . as always, same ol' excuse.

and I thought Unreal 2 wasn't going to have it either? Not sure about that one, I hope it does, because then if it does I might actually play it.

Had I read all the post aside from me jumping the gun and immediately pressing the "post" button I would have taken notice to all you other fellas...

...girls if there *are* any?

stating the point that the Coop issue was the issue rasied aside from that candle stick jumping baboon the made the infamous remark - "first post"

What a sissy


This comment was edited on Aug 7, 21:00.

This is "NO!" new NEWS... We all knew this was coming. What kind of flim-flam is Id trying to pull?

Kick my teeth out. But, I see no admission of "COOP!"

"Hey Loony? is is possible to make a blinking eyed happy face (as in questioning the facts)"

What's the point of MPlay if no Coop is instituted. Alien Vs. Predator 2 will have it, Unreal 2 will have it. What's Id's issue?

"Later!"

http://www.ibiblio.org/Dave/Dr-Fun/df200107/df20010710.jpg

LOL!

What in the world is Firingsquad?

I hear it referenced every time someone acts up.. does it have a bad message board?

Ok, they first said Wolfenstein would not have a multiplayer mode, now they announce they will be including it, it won't cause the game to be delayed and you won't have to pay for it.

Bastards!!! How dare they screw us like that!!



My e. coli cures cancer!

yes. There is NO excuse now for not having cooperative in.

No, oooh, were concentrating on single player, or, ooh its too hard!

Damnitt! give us some COOP already!! SHIET!