Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught

The new Urban Onslaught DLC is now available on Steam for Starship Troopers: Terran Command, the strategy game from The Aristocrats and Slitherine. This puts the plucky Mobile Infantry on the defensive, as the war on the bugs comes to Earth, playing out in urban environments that would have broken the special effects budget of the source film. The Video Trailer sets the stage for the bugs' counteroffensive. Would you like to know more?
The DLC is focused on open maps that offer plenty of variety and greater tactical freedom. Throughout the nine-mission story, players will liberate a massive airport, clear internal buildings and venture through underground basements, sewers and metro lines.

Within this new story campaign, players have access to eight new units to help squash the bug threat. These include the M23 Rainmaker, which can storm an endless barrage of missiles down on foes, the versatile M7 Cyclone, which can eliminate threats both in the air and on the ground, and the A-12 Pegasus Gunship, which is fitted with a powerful minigun.

Federal Intelligence also reports that players will face off against four new Arachnid unit types. These include Hornets, that swarm players with endless streams from their nests, Bursters that eject a volatile substance, and Ravagers that attack with explosive projectiles. These can be fended off by setting down one of the four new defensive turret types: Mortar Turrets, Heavy Gun Turrets, Autocannon Turrets, and Ballistic Missile Turrets.
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25.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 21, 2024, 06:59
25.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 21, 2024, 06:59
Jun 21, 2024, 06:59
 
Just to add one more thing to this discussion, it's quite possible to like the book AND like the movie. One thing doesn't have to exclude the other. I like the movie for its brilliant satire, and like the book for its profound ideas and some of the best set action pieces ever written. (Which the movie quite infamously failed to capture)
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24.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 22:05
24.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 22:05
Jun 20, 2024, 22:05
 
Razumen wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 19:52:
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 19:34:
That's all death of individualism stuff. You're part of the in-group(bugs are the outgroup, literally xenomorphs for xenophobes). You're one of us. It doesn't matter what your differences are (until it does).

Okay? And what's wrong with that? EVERY functioning society that has existed and will exist requires a group of like minded individuals. You can't embrace values that go against your society and actively threaten its existence and expect it to survive, much less thrive.

But you can. America always bragged about doing just that. Being a melting pot is what made it great. The American dream was that anyone could make it here. Anyone.
23.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 19:56
23.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 19:56
Jun 20, 2024, 19:56
 
Razumen wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 19:52:
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 19:34:
That's all death of individualism stuff. You're part of the in-group(bugs are the outgroup, literally xenomorphs for xenophobes). You're one of us. It doesn't matter what your differences are (until it does).

Okay? And what's wrong with that? EVERY functioning society that has existed and will exist requires a group of like minded individuals. You can't embrace values that go against your society and actively threaten its existence and expect it to survive, much less thrive.

I didn't say anything was wrong with it, but it's a very obvious tell of what the movie is pushing when combined with all of the other circumstantial evidence that's slapping you in the face (which is why it obviously doesn't fail to convey this message)
22.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 19:52
22.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 19:52
Jun 20, 2024, 19:52
 
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 19:34:
That's all death of individualism stuff. You're part of the in-group(bugs are the outgroup, literally xenomorphs for xenophobes). You're one of us. It doesn't matter what your differences are (until it does).

Okay? And what's wrong with that? EVERY functioning society that has existed and will exist requires a group of like minded individuals. You can't embrace values that go against your society and actively threaten its existence and expect it to survive, much less thrive.
21.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 19:34
21.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 19:34
Jun 20, 2024, 19:34
 
Jonny wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 17:17:
I get it and I understand what he set out to do, I just think he failed. Weirdly obsessive biology teacher aside the society he shows here doesn't just evidence traits that are the antithesis of fascism, they're ones we're actively working towards in bettering our own society right now.

Bettering it for who? Learn about the bugs weaknesses so you can kill them, then get sent to bug planet to kill them or die, and then you can be citizen. If you don't, well, we'll let you live here with limited rights.

Buenos Aires in the global south being as soft and wealthy as the nicest dream US suburb?

It's a very obvious reference to where the Nazis fled.

Utter equality across the sexes, to the point they shower together without harassment and weirdness?
One of the most powerful officials in the world immediately stepping down after a catastrophic mistake and being replaced by a black woman and nobody bats an eye?
I get he was trying to get messages across with the blond haired and blue eyed cast, that he made the shower scene to show that they were sexless robots etc etc, but what he's done is show a society that's done a lot of the things we're actively trying to do and draped a "military=fascism" coat over it.

That's all death of individualism stuff. You're part of the in-group(bugs are the outgroup, literally xenomorphs for xenophobes). You're one of us. It doesn't matter what your differences are (until it does).


20.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 17:17
20.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 17:17
Jun 20, 2024, 17:17
 
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 16:46:
And to pile on with Beamer as to it being right under one's nose, there's Verhoeven's own words:

So I decided to make a movie about fascists who aren’t aware of their fascism.

The society they exist in espouses a lot of concepts associated with fascist ideology, and pretty much all of it was played like they didn't know it outside of one character: Rue McClanahan, who spent a few minutes chewing scenery like she was Dr Strangelove playing their biology teacher, while talking about how great the bugs are because they're "perfect selfless members of society" and dismissing art, math, and science as if they're trivial pursuits because the bugs don't give a shit about any of that and just send their obedient selfless drones to die while colonizing other planets at will. Fascism is very anti-individualist, and this biology teacher strongly admires the bugs because of it

I get it and I understand what he set out to do, I just think he failed. Weirdly obsessive biology teacher aside the society he shows here doesn't just evidence traits that are the antithesis of fascism, they're ones we're actively working towards in bettering our own society right now.

Buenos Aires in the global south being as soft and wealthy as the nicest dream US suburb?
Utter equality across the sexes, to the point they shower together without harassment and weirdness?
One of the most powerful officials in the world immediately stepping down after a catastrophic mistake and being replaced by a black woman and nobody bats an eye?

I get he was trying to get messages across with the blond haired and blue eyed cast, that he made the shower scene to show that they were sexless robots etc etc, but what he's done is show a society that's done a lot of the things we're actively trying to do and draped a "military=fascism" coat over it.
19.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 17:04
19.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 17:04
Jun 20, 2024, 17:04
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 14:51:
Jonny wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 14:28:
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 12:03:
Jonny wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 16:54:
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.

Verhoeven very deliberately incorporated Nazi inspired iconography and influences in the Federation. He drew from Riefenstahl heavily. He's spoken about it at length. Why do you think they feature a bunch of blue eyed blonde haired white kids from Buenos Aires?

I get that and I get that it was a deliberate choice by Paul Verhoeven, he's still wrapped the trappings of Nazi germany heavily over a society that fundamentally isn't fascist, because he didn't understand the book. That was my point, things that look nazi-ish do not make a society fascist, because they stole heavily from pre-existing iconography that had nothing to do with them in order to build this concept of a singular german entity that was superior to the enemies and inferiors around it. This surface level concept of what fascism is is fundamentally dangerous because it blinds people to actual fascists who wear suits and don't hang around in greatcoats with eagles embossed on them.

Maybe you're not understanding that Verhoeven only loosely used the book, which he very flagrantly didn't read?
Maybe you're not understanding that the book and the film are two very different pieces of media, with very different stories, themes, and elements?
Maybe you're letting your knowledge of one influence your view of the other?

Because that was absolutely a fascist society.
Maybe you just don't like the word, but like the society? Do you think extreme government propaganda to control and mislead in order to maintain power is a good thing? Do you think requiring military service in order to have children is a good thing? Creating and enforcing a hierarchy in all of society? Having people sacrifice individuality for the good of the nation? Who sent mormons to literal re-education?

I think you mentioned the quarantine zone as proof it isn't fascism. But, don't we later see that the humans violated the quarantine zone and established a settlement within it, which was attacked when the bugs realized it had military personnel within it?

Let's look at the generally accepted characteristics of fascism:
1. Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible”
leader who never admits mistakes.
2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies.
3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood.
4. Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat.
Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious.
5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation.
6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority
group leaders.
7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective
collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”.
8. Rampant sexism.
9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”.
10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack.
11. Religion and government are intertwined.
12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed.
13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative.
14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence.
15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state.
16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict.

I'd say the society we see in the film echoes at least half of this. The only one I think is truly false is the rampant sexism.

1: No it doesn't. They have a sky marshall who immediately quits when they blunder the invasion of Klendathu.
2: None of that in the film.
3: Also none of that.
4: And none of that. Men and women are completely equal in all respects and said Sky Marshall who resigns is immediately replaced by a black woman.
5: Civilians have every right that a citizen does, they just can't vote or hold political office. It's also easier to get things when you've proved you will contribute.
6: None
7: None of that either, the central concept of the society is that you should only exercise power when you've proven you've got a stake in it.
8: Agree on.
9: The film heavily shows propaganda media, but they're in a war. Again, nothing you wouldn't have seen in 1940s USA.
10: No real evidence of that, and the nation is under attack.
11: No evidence for that.
12: Or that.
13: Partial, it has a disdain for politicians and social science.
14: Again, immediate resignation of highest military office.
15: No evidence of that.
16: Directly contradicted by the quarantine zone.

Most of your other points are also invalidated in the film, not the book. The Mormon settlements are civilians breaking a military quarantine and the military couldn't do anything about it, even though they start a war by settling on an arachnid world. The society also doesn't require military service to have children, even in the film it's stated that military service is only one path to citizenship, it's just the fastest as it's the most dangerous. You can get citizenship by any service, it just takes longer.

The society removes the democratic franchise from people who haven't shown that they're willing to work towards the benefit of society, it heavily emphasises personal responsiblity and contribution. Every democratic society disenfranchises people for some reason, it used to be because they didn't earn property, or now because they're too young, or have committed crimes. None of this, shown in the movie, makes it a fascist society. The society evidences no othering, no discrimination, no strict hierarchy other than whether or not you've contributed. It evidences no racism, sexism or warmongering. It shows a society that, due to previous collapse, trusts people who have evidenced service more than career politicians or political science and has made that service a central point of their democratic society, that's it.

18.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 16:46
18.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 16:46
Jun 20, 2024, 16:46
 
And to pile on with Beamer as to it being right under one's nose, there's Verhoeven's own words:

So I decided to make a movie about fascists who aren’t aware of their fascism.

The society they exist in espouses a lot of concepts associated with fascist ideology, and pretty much all of it was played like they didn't know it outside of one character: Rue McClanahan, who spent a few minutes chewing scenery like she was Dr Strangelove playing their biology teacher, while talking about how great the bugs are because they're "perfect selfless members of society" and dismissing art, math, and science as if they're trivial pursuits because the bugs don't give a shit about any of that and just send their obedient selfless drones to die while colonizing other planets at will. Fascism is very anti-individualist, and this biology teacher strongly admires the bugs because of it
17.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 14:51
17.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 14:51
Jun 20, 2024, 14:51
 
Jonny wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 14:28:
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 12:03:
Jonny wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 16:54:
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.

Verhoeven very deliberately incorporated Nazi inspired iconography and influences in the Federation. He drew from Riefenstahl heavily. He's spoken about it at length. Why do you think they feature a bunch of blue eyed blonde haired white kids from Buenos Aires?

I get that and I get that it was a deliberate choice by Paul Verhoeven, he's still wrapped the trappings of Nazi germany heavily over a society that fundamentally isn't fascist, because he didn't understand the book. That was my point, things that look nazi-ish do not make a society fascist, because they stole heavily from pre-existing iconography that had nothing to do with them in order to build this concept of a singular german entity that was superior to the enemies and inferiors around it. This surface level concept of what fascism is is fundamentally dangerous because it blinds people to actual fascists who wear suits and don't hang around in greatcoats with eagles embossed on them.

Maybe you're not understanding that Verhoeven only loosely used the book, which he very flagrantly didn't read?
Maybe you're not understanding that the book and the film are two very different pieces of media, with very different stories, themes, and elements?
Maybe you're letting your knowledge of one influence your view of the other?

Because that was absolutely a fascist society.
Maybe you just don't like the word, but like the society? Do you think extreme government propaganda to control and mislead in order to maintain power is a good thing? Do you think requiring military service in order to have children is a good thing? Creating and enforcing a hierarchy in all of society? Having people sacrifice individuality for the good of the nation? Who sent mormons to literal re-education?

I think you mentioned the quarantine zone as proof it isn't fascism. But, don't we later see that the humans violated the quarantine zone and established a settlement within it, which was attacked when the bugs realized it had military personnel within it?

Let's look at the generally accepted characteristics of fascism:
1. Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible”
leader who never admits mistakes.
2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies.
3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood.
4. Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat.
Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious.
5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation.
6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority
group leaders.
7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective
collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”.
8. Rampant sexism.
9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”.
10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack.
11. Religion and government are intertwined.
12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed.
13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative.
14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence.
15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state.
16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict.

I'd say the society we see in the film echoes at least half of this. The only one I think is truly false is the rampant sexism.
16.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 14:28
16.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 14:28
Jun 20, 2024, 14:28
 
bhcompy wrote on Jun 20, 2024, 12:03:
Jonny wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 16:54:
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.

Verhoeven very deliberately incorporated Nazi inspired iconography and influences in the Federation. He drew from Riefenstahl heavily. He's spoken about it at length. Why do you think they feature a bunch of blue eyed blonde haired white kids from Buenos Aires?

I get that and I get that it was a deliberate choice by Paul Verhoeven, he's still wrapped the trappings of Nazi germany heavily over a society that fundamentally isn't fascist, because he didn't understand the book. That was my point, things that look nazi-ish do not make a society fascist, because they stole heavily from pre-existing iconography that had nothing to do with them in order to build this concept of a singular german entity that was superior to the enemies and inferiors around it. This surface level concept of what fascism is is fundamentally dangerous because it blinds people to actual fascists who wear suits and don't hang around in greatcoats with eagles embossed on them.
15.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 12:03
15.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 12:03
Jun 20, 2024, 12:03
 
Jonny wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 16:54:
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.

Verhoeven very deliberately incorporated Nazi inspired iconography and influences in the Federation. He drew from Riefenstahl heavily. He's spoken about it at length. Why do you think they feature a bunch of blue eyed blonde haired white kids from Buenos Aires?
14.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 08:31
14.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 08:31
Jun 20, 2024, 08:31
 
I mean, militarism is a core facet of fascism...


From the director himself:
“It's a very right-wing book,” the director said. “And with the movie, we tried, and I think at least partially succeeded, in commenting on that at the same time. It would be ‘Eat your cake and have it.’ All the way through we were fighting with the fascism, the ultra-militarism. All the way through I wanted the audience to be asking, ‘Are these people crazy?’”

Things, such as the Eagles on Neil Patrick Harris, were deliberate choices based upon his upbringing in an Nazi controlled nation. They wanted the main characters to echo Nazis very closely. This is also why there is so much blatant propaganda.

Keep in mind, voting isn't the only thing hidden behind service. Procreation is, as well.
13.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 20, 2024, 06:03
13.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 20, 2024, 06:03
Jun 20, 2024, 06:03
 
Jonny wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 16:54:
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.
No no, you see, Neil Patrick Harris was kinda dressed like a Nazi, so that made them all evil and bad!
12.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 16:54
12.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 16:54
Jun 19, 2024, 16:54
 
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.

I enjoyed the movie, but it wasn't satire, it's a masterpiece in outing people who fundamentally don't understand what fascism is.

Militarism isn't fascism. Having an eagle on your flag isn't fascism. Uniforms do not make you a fascist. Fascism is extreme authoritarianism sustained by ultra-nationalism whipped up by the fear of external enemies.

The Federation in Starship Troopers is a parliamentary republic in which you earn the right to vote via public service. That makes it a democracy.
When it encountered the bugs it threw up a wide quarantine zone around their territory to leave them in peace. Not something a fascist state would do.
The quarantine was breached by civilians because the Federal military had no jurisdiction over them and couldn't stop them ignoring the warnings. Not something you'd see in an authoritarian state.
Finally, the bug war starts when the arachnids launched a pre-emptive strike on a civilian population centre with a weapon of mass destruction. Show me a nation in history that wouldn't react with extreme militarism to something like that.

It's as fascist as WW2 era America or Britain, the militarism and jingoism is a result of being attacked and being in a war for survival. That it's so readily mistaken for fascism indicates an alarming lack of knowledge of what fascism actually is.
11.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 10:56
11.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 10:56
Jun 19, 2024, 10:56
 
Teddy wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 00:46:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 23:11:
It's all heavily influenced by the movie, with almost nothing from the novel.

That's a good thing. The movie was brilliant satire. The novel was a steaming pile of fascistic military worshipping garbage. The game itself, I couldn't speak to as I don't do RTS's.
Wow, I thought the book was one of Heinlein's best. We get that you did not like it.
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Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 10:15
10.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 10:15
Jun 19, 2024, 10:15
 
Heinlein is my favorite sci-fi author and to describe him as "fascist" or anything he wrote as "fascist" is stunningly inaccurate. If anything, he was a very progressive (for his time) proto-Libertarian. Beyond what VD mentioned, he also tackled racism, homophobia, ageism, transgender issues, equality issues, and class issues. To say that Starship Troopers is military worshiping propaganda is like saying that The Forever War by Joe Haldeman is a really long recruitment pamphlet. Heinlein wrote Starship Troopers through the lens of his experience with World War 2 and Haldeman wrote The Forever War through the lens of his experience with the Vietnam War.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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9.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 07:18
9.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 07:18
Jun 19, 2024, 07:18
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 06:47:
He didn't like hippie culture at all. I think he was kind of disgusted at how they were using freedom and the pursuit of liberty as an excuse to do drugs and be homeless. And indeed the whole hippie movement collapsed unto itself in the 70s.
As i remember, he accepted their freedom to do as they please, but he didnt like their appearance and lifestyle. Heinlein still was a child of the early 20th century.
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Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 06:47
8.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 06:47
Jun 19, 2024, 06:47
 
Kajetan wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 06:00:
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 03:52:
Heinlein was probably the most liberal writer in the America at the time. His ideas about transhumanism, sexual freedom, governance and outlook in general is what liberalism is all about, ...
Indeed, he was.

Although he was not happy at all that those darn Hippies adored "Stranger in a Strange Land".

He didn't like hippie culture at all. I think he was kind of disgusted at how they were using freedom and the pursuit of liberty as an excuse to do drugs and be homeless. And indeed the whole hippie movement collapsed unto itself in the 70s.
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7.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 06:00
7.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 06:00
Jun 19, 2024, 06:00
 
VaranDragon wrote on Jun 19, 2024, 03:52:
Heinlein was probably the most liberal writer in the America at the time. His ideas about transhumanism, sexual freedom, governance and outlook in general is what liberalism is all about, ...
Indeed, he was.

Although he was not happy at all that those darn Hippies adored "Stranger in a Strange Land".
6.
 
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught
Jun 19, 2024, 04:03
6.
Re: Starship Troopers: Terran Command - Urban Onslaught Jun 19, 2024, 04:03
Jun 19, 2024, 04:03
 
Prez wrote on Jun 18, 2024, 21:16:
Did the bugs ever make it to earth in the novel?

No. The story in the novel is actually quite close to the one told in the movie. Although it's told from the POV of Rico, in movie terms think less Verhoeven and more Ridley Scott....
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