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17.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 16, 2024, 02:49
17.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 16, 2024, 02:49
Jun 16, 2024, 02:49
 
budrojr wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 07:34:
Well, we will see how great of an idea this was when the sales figures come out.

That's not as valid as you think it is. Ubisoft is a abusive shithole of a company, and as such me not buying anything from Ubisoft is not an indictment of a game starring an African Samurai.
Rimmer: “Step up to Red Alert.”
Kryten: “Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.”

ALSO: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/
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16.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 15, 2024, 08:51
Prez
 
16.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 15, 2024, 08:51
Jun 15, 2024, 08:51
 Prez
 
The game selling well or badly doesn't correspond to the race, gender, or sexual preference of the main character. Drawing erroneous conclusions and clumsy correlations only serve to fuel the never-ending and pointless culture war. Movies and games that are "woke" fail not because show runners or developers tried to expand diversity they may think is lacking; they fail because a number of said directors, showrunners, and developers think that is all they need to do without a thought to anything else. The writing, characters, dialogue, and lore often are neglected, ignored, and shit on by people for whom activism is more important, or even the sole thing that matters. One thing doesn't replace the other; it should enhance the other. Good writers and directors understand that; activist hacks who are hired because of the boxes they check with no concern for whether they are good at their actual job or care about anything else most often don't.

It remains to be seen which category this game falls into. I normally wouldn't even wonder beforehand except this is by the same company whose bosses continuously nixed female assassins and stated insulting, nonsensical reasons for doing so, got rightly called out for being sexist, and might be now trying to over-correct thinking that a move to the opposite extreme will fix everything. Ubisoft hasn't been known for their subtly and delicate touch in handling things. The same racist, misogynist elitists are still in charge after all.

This comment was edited on Jun 15, 2024, 09:30.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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15.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 15, 2024, 07:34
15.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 15, 2024, 07:34
Jun 15, 2024, 07:34
 
Well, we will see how great of an idea this was when the sales figures come out.
14.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 23:43
14.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 23:43
Jun 14, 2024, 23:43
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:34:
Rokkuu wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:28:

AC : Shadows - Gay Black Samurai set in Japan


Spot the odd one out.

Probably the one I highlighted, which is an actual historical figure and not a total work of fiction?

AND the one place that AC fans have been begging for!
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13.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 22:03
13.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 22:03
Jun 14, 2024, 22:03
 
"In the end, all of the pearl-clutching and hand-wringing is much ado about nothing. It only keeps being an issue because the same people keep arguing about it."

And that should be where the thread ends. But I doubt we'll be that lucky.
“We’ve arranged a society on science and technology in which nobody understands anything about science and technology, and this combustible mixture of ignorance and power sooner or later is going to blow up in our faces." Carl Sagan
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12.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 21:55
Prez
 
12.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 21:55
Jun 14, 2024, 21:55
 Prez
 
It's not necessarily the point whether there factually was a black Samurai. It's interesting that there was to be sure, but if you are trying to present someone who is narratively going to personify a class or profession, conceivably you would want someone who represents the majority of that class or profession. But I don't see that as being what they are doing with this game. This isn't a documentary or a production like Chernobyl where the female Russian nuclear physicist was actually an abstract sort of stand-in meant to embody the many physicists involved with the Chernobyl incident. This is the chance to tell a unique fictional story in a unique and interesting time period, and they chose a protagonist who is unique and interesting himself because he isn't the standard.

I do understand the problems that some people have with it - the same arguments arose when Battlefield 5 had a front-line female soldier with a bionic hand. Tonally it didn't fit at all with the way the series had represented itself up until that point. I did understand the complaints. In a game like Cyberpunk that wouldn't even illicit any reaction whatsoever because it fits. In a game that is presented as taking place in the real-world WW2 era, it was problematic. Honestly all they had to say is that this is an alternate history amalgam to WW2; just a slight variation on the historical event, and there wouldn't have been near the amount of hysteria. The Battlefield series has ventured into fictional conflicts before; no reason that they couldn't do it again. I am suspicious that they were banking on the controversy to bolster the visibility of their game, but if that was indeed their intention it backfired I think.

In the end, all of the pearl-clutching and hand-wringing is much ado about nothing. It only keeps being an issue because the same people keep arguing about it.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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11.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 21:03
11.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 21:03
Jun 14, 2024, 21:03
 
RogueSix wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 19:00:
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:34:
Rokkuu wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:28:

AC : Shadows - Gay Black Samurai set in Japan


Spot the odd one out.

Probably the one I highlighted, which is an actual historical figure and not a total work of fiction?

That may be true but AC Odyssey and Valhalla had a male/female option within their respective ethnic settings. Why not do the same with Shadows? It's not like Japanese male characters are over-represented in video games. They certainly could have easily picked a male historical character of Japanese origin. A "real" Samurai.

Going with Yasuke seems extremely forced. Yes, UbiSoft. We get it. You are the grandmasters of diversity. Here's your cookie.

Personally, I don't really mind since Yasuke is based on an actual historical figure and I found the introduction trailer of the character plausible but it is still a bit of an eye-roller because you know exactly why they made this particular decision.

That said, Musk's (once again substance-induced?) statement is bullshit, of course. "DEI kills art". LOL. First, video games are not art. AC Shadows is a (pretty shallow at that) entertainment product that might include art but the finished product (the composition of the art set pieces) is not art per se. It's an entertainment product.
And DEI certainly does not "kill" anything here. It may be a little bit over the top to choose this Yasuke character for a Samurai game but we will all live.


This game has a male and female protagonist. You alter between them both.

This is the story they found interesting. It's funny how, elsewhere in this thread, the white guy that whines about other white people being offended for non-white people is here offended for non-white people.

I wonder why he's so vested this particular time. What's unique about this historical figure? What could it be?
10.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 20:17
10.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 20:17
Jun 14, 2024, 20:17
 
Squirmer wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:52:
Having read about this for all of 30 seconds, apparently this person is a real historical figure who served directly under the Japanese emperor. There's very little detail about who he was and he may not have been a samurai, but embellishment is a constant of historical fiction, so I think maybe people need to get over themselves. He's been depicted in Japanese pop culture since at least the 60s so the suggestion that including this character is "insulting to Japanese people" or whatever is absurd.
Doesn't reflect who the person was. Tries to play them up beyond being a sword bearer. Ubisoft is so insane they got not only the architecture wrong - confusing Chinese with Japanese, but they didn't even get the emblems or kanji correct. Yeah, it's insulting to Japanese people. Go read the Ubisoft Japan video feed on it. Or go take a read over on Line.

I'd post actual quotes, but that would break rule 2, especially since they DGAF on political correctness there.
--
"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
--H.L. Mencken
9.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 19:20
9.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 19:20
Jun 14, 2024, 19:20
 
Just highlighting that this is so out of the norm for the franchise.

Also laughable that an assassin game has someone that literally can’t blend in a crowd being an assassin as they are the only black person in Japan.

I would love to play an awesome afro samurai game which is loosely based on Yasuke but that aint assassins creed.
8.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 19:00
8.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 19:00
Jun 14, 2024, 19:00
 
Beamer wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:34:
Rokkuu wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:28:

AC : Shadows - Gay Black Samurai set in Japan


Spot the odd one out.

Probably the one I highlighted, which is an actual historical figure and not a total work of fiction?

That may be true but AC Odyssey and Valhalla had a male/female option within their respective ethnic settings. Why not do the same with Shadows? It's not like Japanese male characters are over-represented in video games. They certainly could have easily picked a male historical character of Japanese origin. A "real" Samurai.

Going with Yasuke seems extremely forced. Yes, UbiSoft. We get it. You are the grandmasters of diversity. Here's your cookie.

Personally, I don't really mind since Yasuke is based on an actual historical figure and I found the introduction trailer of the character plausible but it is still a bit of an eye-roller because you know exactly why they made this particular decision.

That said, Musk's (once again substance-induced?) statement is bullshit, of course. "DEI kills art". LOL. First, video games are not art. AC Shadows is a (pretty shallow at that) entertainment product that might include art but the finished product (the composition of the art set pieces) is not art per se. It's an entertainment product.
And DEI certainly does not "kill" anything here. It may be a little bit over the top to choose this Yasuke character for a Samurai game but we will all live.
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7.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 18:56
7.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 18:56
Jun 14, 2024, 18:56
 
Lol OK this actual historical figure is the inspiration for the entire AFRO SAMURAI franchise which was created by uhhhh a Japanese manga artist. How do these reactionary nerds keep hanging their ass out to the world like this. Manga has gone woke (back in 1998 or something)!!
6.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 18:52
6.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 18:52
Jun 14, 2024, 18:52
 
Having read about this for all of 30 seconds, apparently this person is a real historical figure who served directly under the Japanese emperor. There's very little detail about who he was and he may not have been a samurai, but embellishment is a constant of historical fiction, so I think maybe people need to get over themselves. He's been depicted in Japanese pop culture since at least the 60s so the suggestion that including this character is "insulting to Japanese people" or whatever is absurd.
5.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 18:34
5.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 18:34
Jun 14, 2024, 18:34
 
Rokkuu wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 18:28:

AC : Shadows - Gay Black Samurai set in Japan


Spot the odd one out.

Probably the one I highlighted, which is an actual historical figure and not a total work of fiction?
4.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 18:28
4.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 18:28
Jun 14, 2024, 18:28
 
AC 1 - Arab set in middle East

AC 2 - Italian set in Italy

AC 3 - Native American set in America

AC : Origins - Egyptian set in Egypt

AC : Odyssey - Greek set in Greece

AC : Valhalla - Viking set in Norway

AC : Shadows - Gay Black Samurai set in Japan


Spot the odd one out.

3.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 16:17
Prez
 
3.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 16:17
Jun 14, 2024, 16:17
 Prez
 
I would buy the "disrespectful to Asian culture" argument somewhat if I believed that was why he objected to it. Alas, I don't. I don't think that games are required to adhere to any cultural standards generally. If they want to make a black Samurai protagonist, I don't immediately think "cultural appropriation!" My only concern is that it makes logical sense according to the rules of the game's universe and makes narrative sense. I don't like pandering. You're allowed to make a game where all Samurai are drunk rednecks or angsty goth teens. But it had better fit the rules of the world and it had better be well-written. I watched my daughter play an anime dating sim where all of the girls were military tanks for chrissake. And I was entertained.

If all it ends up being is an unsubtle way to score cultural awareness points you can fuck right off. Corporations are the most racist fuckers out there - I don't need them hypocritically lecturing me.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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2.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 15:40
2.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 15:40
Jun 14, 2024, 15:40
 
Oh god, not this topic again. All it does is bring out the usual suspects with their illogical hot takes.
“We’ve arranged a society on science and technology in which nobody understands anything about science and technology, and this combustible mixture of ignorance and power sooner or later is going to blow up in our faces." Carl Sagan
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1.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Jun 14, 2024, 15:28
1.
Re: Quoteworthy Jun 14, 2024, 15:28
Jun 14, 2024, 15:28
 
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692? 692?! Sure you can reject all - thanks GDPR - but 692?!?! And they wonder why people don't want to be tracked.

"For me, Elon, it's sad, he's just feeding hatred. I had a lot of three word replies that came to mind."

Just because he's an asshole doesn't mean he's wrong. It's seriously disrespectful to the Japanese people. Why does Ubisoft hate the Japanese that they'd act so disrespectfully? That's the real racism and hatred. But if Ubisoft is so committed to diversity then they should make a WWII game with all the Nazis as black people or even brown, yellow, or red people. I mean, it's all just fiction right? Representation of diverse peoples is what's really important after all, right? Yeah, like that'd ever happen.
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"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
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