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17.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 20:44
Quboid
 
17.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 20:44
Jun 15, 2024, 20:44
 Quboid
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 16:34:
Quboid wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 16:32:
Linus (Tech Tips) mentioned that Premium viewers bring in more income than non-Premium, per viewer, so I think they'll be fine.
People actually pay to watch Linus (Tech Tips) content? Rotfl

That's not really how Premium works, you don't pay to watch specific content (well, I think there is exclusive content but that's not LTT). They do have FloatPlane, their own video site, so yes people pay for that.

LTT is fine for what it's trying to be. If you want detailed tech stuff, of course there's far better. If you want some guy to check out something neat, they do the job. They got sloppy and deservedly got called out by one of those far better channels, and since then they seem to have sharpened up a bit (I haven't done fact checking, but I have noticed that they make corrections much clearer.)
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16.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 17:50
Prez
 
16.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 17:50
Jun 15, 2024, 17:50
 Prez
 
"Then they'd piss off content creators when people can skip their baked in ads."

SonsorBlock is already helping people do that right now. In a way I feel bad for the creators; people who create deserve to be compensated. But I am not taking responsibility for the fucked up ecosystem they are stuck in. I didn't ask for it to be this way, and creating doesn't mean that you have a license to annoy incessantly.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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15.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 16:34
15.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 16:34
Jun 15, 2024, 16:34
 
Quboid wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 16:32:
Linus (Tech Tips) mentioned that Premium viewers bring in more income than non-Premium, per viewer, so I think they'll be fine.
People actually pay to watch Linus (Tech Tips) content? Rotfl
“We’ve arranged a society on science and technology in which nobody understands anything about science and technology, and this combustible mixture of ignorance and power sooner or later is going to blow up in our faces." Carl Sagan
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14.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 16:32
Quboid
 
14.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 16:32
Jun 15, 2024, 16:32
 Quboid
 
Leahi84 wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 09:23:
Quboid wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 16:14:
If they somehow integrated SponsorBlock's functionality into Premium, that would make Premium decent value.
Then they'd piss off content creators when people can skip their baked in ads.

Yep, there would be a lot of bitching about it. There always is. It's the golden rule for YouTubers: if you do well it's your skill, if you do badly it's YouTube failing you.

Linus (Tech Tips) mentioned that Premium viewers bring in more income than non-Premium, per viewer, so I think they'll be fine.
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13.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 12:27
13.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 12:27
Jun 15, 2024, 12:27
 
Leahi84 wrote on Jun 15, 2024, 09:28:
I'm not as optimistic as you. I think if Google chooses to they could go after everyone working on these relentlessly to the point that any project that surfaces gets nuked almost immediately. What's the point of the projects if they cant make themselves known easily and thus don't get used much? I don't think open source will be a protection indefinitely. Honestly I'm scared for the day when corporations lobby that open source is illegal because they make it too easy for "criminals" to violate their copyrights.

"Optimistic" is rarely a word that gets used to describe me so I thank you for the chuckle.

Let's start with the biggest issue first. Corporations will never lobby to make open source illegal since all of them, literally all of them, rely on it to make a buck. They would be slitting their own throats. Second, there is already established precedent in many countries that open source is not only very legal, in many cases it is protected. The EU, in particular, would tell Google to go pound sand. Remember the DVD decryption source code drama of 2000? The DVD Copy Control Association didn't win that fight, either, in the end. You can still find that source code available online 24 years later.

Second, Google doesn't have the resources to play an endless game of whack-a-mole. Think about this for a second. If you use Ublock Origin or Sponsorblock, where did you learn about it? Was it in an advertisement for a company or product? Or did you hear about it via word of mouth? I would be comfortable in wagering it was the latter. Google is not going to have the resources or capacity to muzzle every single human nor every single site on the internet. Word will spread as it always does in places Google has neither insight in to nor purview over.

Finally, YouTube is offered for free to the public. You are not required to create an account to use it. Google has no legal standing to require their ads be shown since you, as the user, are under no obligation to agree to any Terms of Service or EULA to passively use the service.

I reaffirm what I said, Google will lose this battle in the end. There is no probable outcome where they don't. They can make the process harder, certainly, but that will only stand for a little while until someone finds yet another way around whatever roadblock Google puts in place.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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12.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 09:28
12.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 09:28
Jun 15, 2024, 09:28
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 23:56:
Ublock Origin and SponsorBlock are both open source. So even if The Evil Empire goes after either, someone can and undoubtedly will fork the project and call it Totally Not Ublock Origin We Pinky Swear or something to that effect. Both projects host their code repository on GitHub but that can be moved somewhere else outside of US jurisdiction and Google can go pound sand. That's the beauty of open source on a global scale, you cannot shut it down.

If Google does manage to enshittify YouTube even more, well, there's always youtube-dl or its many derivatives. Google can include the ads and I will just happily skip right over them in VLC.

There are lots of ways to skin this proverbial cat and, in the end, Google loses in all of them.

I'm not as optimistic as you. I think if Google chooses to they could go after everyone working on these relentlessly to the point that any project that surfaces gets nuked almost immediately. What's the point of the projects if they cant make themselves known easily and thus don't get used much? I don't think open source will be a protection indefinitely. Honestly I'm scared for the day when corporations lobby that open source is illegal because they make it too easy for "criminals" to violate their copyrights.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
11.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 09:23
11.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 09:23
Jun 15, 2024, 09:23
 
Quboid wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 16:14:
Prez wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 15:59:
I would never say never in a country like the US where the legal system is so heavily weighted to blindly serving corporate interests that almost anything a corporation wants can be declared legal or illegal if they lobby hard enough and spend enough money. But I don't see how they could take action against the makers of SonsorBlock. It is literally just having a person advise you what part of a video you can skip. It's really no different fundamentally from some videos that say "skip to this time code to avoid spoilers."

I don't expect legal issues, but if SponsorBlock starts blocking server-side ads then it could become a technical arms race. I don't know how Google could do anything, but you never know.

If they somehow integrated SponsorBlock's functionality into Premium, that would make Premium decent value.
Then they'd piss off content creators when people can skip their baked in ads.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
10.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 15, 2024, 01:48
10.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 15, 2024, 01:48
Jun 15, 2024, 01:48
 
This is probably what it's going to come to in this war. There is still a chance, though. YouTube supports many legacy formats, it prefers vp9 but it still does h264 for other hardware platforms. Also 1080p stream and 720p stream are also handled different. 1080p and up separate the audio but 720 and below still has them merged. There's a good chance the realtime multiplexing of ad video only works on some of these allowing us to use a fall back stream.
9.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 23:56
9.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 23:56
Jun 14, 2024, 23:56
 
Ublock Origin and SponsorBlock are both open source. So even if The Evil Empire goes after either, someone can and undoubtedly will fork the project and call it Totally Not Ublock Origin We Pinky Swear or something to that effect. Both projects host their code repository on GitHub but that can be moved somewhere else outside of US jurisdiction and Google can go pound sand. That's the beauty of open source on a global scale, you cannot shut it down.

If Google does manage to enshittify YouTube even more, well, there's always youtube-dl or its many derivatives. Google can include the ads and I will just happily skip right over them in VLC.

There are lots of ways to skin this proverbial cat and, in the end, Google loses in all of them.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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8.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 16:14
Quboid
 
8.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 16:14
Jun 14, 2024, 16:14
 Quboid
 
Prez wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 15:59:
I would never say never in a country like the US where the legal system is so heavily weighted to blindly serving corporate interests that almost anything a corporation wants can be declared legal or illegal if they lobby hard enough and spend enough money. But I don't see how they could take action against the makers of SonsorBlock. It is literally just having a person advise you what part of a video you can skip. It's really no different fundamentally from some videos that say "skip to this time code to avoid spoilers."

I don't expect legal issues, but if SponsorBlock starts blocking server-side ads then it could become a technical arms race. I don't know how Google could do anything, but you never know.

If they somehow integrated SponsorBlock's functionality into Premium, that would make Premium decent value.
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7.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 15:59
Prez
 
7.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 15:59
Jun 14, 2024, 15:59
 Prez
 
I would never say never in a country like the US where the legal system is so heavily weighted to blindly serving corporate interests that almost anything a corporation wants can be declared legal or illegal if they lobby hard enough and spend enough money. But I don't see how they could take action against the makers of SonsorBlock. It is literally just having a person advise you what part of a video you can skip. It's really no different fundamentally from some videos that say "skip to this time code to avoid spoilers."
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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6.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 15:32
Quboid
 
6.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 15:32
Jun 14, 2024, 15:32
 Quboid
 
Prez wrote on Jun 14, 2024, 15:10:
The way Sponsorblock works is different from the way ad blockers work. An ad is detected by the ad blocker and is skipped. But sponsorships ("Hey! Before we get to your video, let me tell you about Raycon/NordVPN/Betterhelp/RaidfuckingShadowLegends...") Someone has to manually flag the sponsorship part of the video since it is embedded in the video. So if you watch a brand new video just released today, it won't have sponsorships blocked. Within a week, if the video is at all popular (which it likely is since it has a sponsorship) it will be skipped for all viewers. It might be much faster than a week - it depends on the video.

Based on that, and hearing what Google intends to do, I already am fairly certain that they will lose. If they end up successful in embedding ads server-side, then Sponsorblock will just expand to blocking embedded ads as well. I don't think Google can win here. I'm thinking that the worst that will happen is that you will have to wait a couple of days at the very most before watching new videos.

I really hope this doesn't mess up SponsorBlock and make Google fight against it. It's a brilliant extension.
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5.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 15:10
Prez
 
5.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 15:10
Jun 14, 2024, 15:10
 Prez
 
The way Sponsorblock works is different from the way ad blockers work. An ad is detected by the ad blocker and is skipped. But sponsorships ("Hey! Before we get to your video, let me tell you about Raycon/NordVPN/Betterhelp/RaidfuckingShadowLegends...") are part of the video you are watching. Someone has to manually flag the sponsorship part of the video since it is embedded in the video. So if you watch a brand new video just released today, it won't have sponsorships blocked. Within a week, if the video is at all popular (which it likely is since it has a sponsorship) it will be skipped for all viewers. It might be much faster than a week - it depends on the video.

Based on that, and hearing what Google intends to do, I already am fairly certain that they will lose. If they end up successful in embedding ads server-side, then Sponsorblock will just expand to blocking embedded ads as well. I don't think Google can win here. I'm thinking that the worst that will happen is that you will have to wait a couple of days at the very most before watching new videos.

This comment was edited on Jun 14, 2024, 15:54.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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4.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 14:56
4.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 14:56
Jun 14, 2024, 14:56
 
I imagine the final step will be to sue the adblocker makers.
I'm not sure how Sponsorblock would stop working? As far as I know, all it does it forward past the built in ad put there by the content maker which is part of the video itself. You can do that manually once the ad starts, it's just a pain. That's what I use it for as I have youtube premium, so I don't get the other kinds of ads.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
3.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 14:33
3.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 14:33
Jun 14, 2024, 14:33
 
How I have gotten around this crap, is to either download the video or paste it in discord. Not sure how server side will work like this. But fk YouTube. I wont support them at all.
Author of the Neverwinter Nights Eye of the Beholder Series of Mods.
Now integrated into Steams NWN: Enhanced Edition

http://www.moddb.com/mods/eye-of-the-beholder-ii-ledgend-of-darkmoon
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2.
 
YouTube could soon make it impossible to use ad blockers on its videos – here's how
Jun 14, 2024, 13:23
2.
YouTube could soon make it impossible to use ad blockers on its videos – here's how Jun 14, 2024, 13:23
Jun 14, 2024, 13:23
 

If it happens, I'll just stop watching Youtube, F'em.
1.
 
Re: Morning Metaverse
Jun 14, 2024, 13:10
Prez
 
1.
Re: Morning Metaverse Jun 14, 2024, 13:10
Jun 14, 2024, 13:10
 Prez
 
The war of escalation continues. I'm pulling really hard for Google to lose big. Like hugely, embarrassingly big.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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17 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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