Madoc Owain wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 08:54:
That hammering sound is the nails in the coffin of Capitalism. No one's going to give you or your children or grand-children a job as a "prompt engineer". Maybe, if you're really lucky, some incredibly wealthy people will sponsor you to participate in their annual hunting expedition, but don't expect to be given a weapon to use. I weep for our future.

Talk about sensationalist nonsense. Capitalism isn't going to die because some company can pump out the same generic trash that other "artists" get paid excessive amounts of money to do.

Nullity wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 12:48:

NKD wrote on Apr 2, 2024, 22:40:
If human beings will worship a human who they have never met in the flesh, or a god for which there is no evidence of its existence, then they have already shown themselves capable of worshipping an AI.

In our lifetimes we'll absolutely see flesh and blood human beings investing their entire personal identities into the cult of an AI and doing awful things because "an AI told them to do it."

If anyone here has never seen Person of Interest, I highly recommend it. Excellent show, one of my all-time favorites.

It ended up pretty much forgotten to time, but I enjoyed the hell out of it myself.

NKD wrote on Apr 2, 2024, 22:40:
If human beings will worship a human who they have never met in the flesh, or a god for which there is no evidence of its existence, then they have already shown themselves capable of worshipping an AI.

In our lifetimes we'll absolutely see flesh and blood human beings investing their entire personal identities into the cult of an AI and doing awful things because "an AI told them to do it."

If anyone here has never seen Person of Interest, I highly recommend it. Excellent show, one of my all-time favorites.

The only thing of interest to me in that story was that Congress thinks that there is something here that they could legislate. If the lawmakers of this great land themselves don't understand the extent and limitations of the power that they themselves possess to set laws for every American to live by I feel vindicated in going back to fighting the good fight against alien invasions and hating the Astros, blissfully unaware.

Completely not surprised that Apple tried to censor those subjects. Very glad Jon didn't give into their BS, even if it meant his show was canceled. Honestly, he's better off not working for them.

VaranDragon wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 09:28:

Madoc Owain wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 08:54:
That hammering sound is the nails in the coffin of Capitalism.

I wouldn't bet on it. If capitalism dies out, then what use do we have for the billionaire and millionaire class? Capitalism dying out wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily but why would these capitalist tech giants invest so heavily into their own demise?

I'll take "because, for all of their wealth, their unmitigated greed blinds them to any consequence beyond what might yield profit this fiscal year" for $800 Alex.

It's dated and the response should be phrased in the form of a question, but work with me here...

For the record, the death knells for capitalism are way premature - there's a long LONG way to go yet - but I was just posing a possible response to your question. 🙂

Madoc Owain wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 08:54:
That hammering sound is the nails in the coffin of Capitalism.

I wouldn't bet on it. If capitalism dies out, then what use do we have for the billionaire and millionaire class? Capitalism dying out wouldn't be a bad thing necessarily but why would these capitalist tech giants invest so heavily into their own demise?

I don't know - the "Most Dangerous Game"- style of hunting could be televised and spawn a whole new industry. Look at how much fun it was in "The Hunger Games". Don't be such a Debbie Downer - there's a bright side to everything! 😁

That hammering sound is the nails in the coffin of Capitalism. No one's going to give you or your children or grand-children a job as a "prompt engineer". Maybe, if you're really lucky, some incredibly wealthy people will sponsor you to participate in their annual hunting expedition, but don't expect to be given a weapon to use. I weep for our future.

The arrogance of just assuming that anyone who says anything that he doesn't agree with indicates that they couldn't have read the article is astonishing. Okay I am done now.

yonder wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 05:05:
"Yeah, I kind of care a bit more about the little guy in this particular case" <--- As does Pearl Jam, which you'd know if you read the letter.

I have read it, and understood it. I've followed Pearl Jam since their inception, and they are usually pretty open minded about such things. However AI impacting the "creative" industry and music artists in particular is still something that is completely secondary to how it will actually impact white and blue collar workers. AI art is not displacing millions of creative musicians, not anytime soon that is. Creativity is done for creativity's sake, and not for money. Anyone in it to make ends meet is not doing it right. I play in 2 bands. We're smalltime and with the type of music we we will never be big time, but we're still playing gigs and still making money off them, though not nearly enough to make ends meet, and even if we did I don't see venue owners lining up to replace any of us with robots, the way tech giants seem to be firing left right and center, and the way that transportation firms will be replacing their semi-drivers with autonomous vehicles.

The only way for art to actually die out, is for the human race to die out. AI being a threat to artists is true, insofar as AI is going to be a threat to all of us. I see now that Musk was wrong. AI will not outright eliminate the human race, the 1% who own all the wealth will try to use it to make 99% of us irrelevant.

Every once in a while I see someone I have on ignore respond and because my memory is terrible I will click on their name to remind myself why and see maybe if I need to reconsider. It didn't take long to remember why it is that I have yonder on ignore. Just announcing that so you can save yourself the trouble of talking to me. Talk about me all you want. I'll try not to forget again.

It's amazing that you can continually make wrong assumptions as you did again in this one. But at least you are angry every time you do it. I'm sure that is fulfilling. The angsty teenager schtick should have gotten old by now, but you keep at it. Points for consistency.

VaranDragon wrote on Apr 3, 2024, 02:32:
I'm pretty sure that AI poses a significantly higher threat to the livelihoods of many, many white and blue collar workers, who unlike the rich and famous, won't exactly have a "nest egg" to fall back on when the times get hard. I love Pearl Jam, but I can't empathize with many of the artists who started out not giving a fuck about money, and creating great music just for the hell of it, and now primarily care about enshrining themselves in their palaces on their private islands. Yeah, I kind of care a bit more about the little guy in this particular case.

See my below reply about clearly not reading what they *actually* said.

That aside.. Pearl Jam is my favorite rock band. They're already semi-retired and everyone knows it. 1 album in the past decade is not an active band (yes, Dark Matter is upcoming, so 2 albums in 12 years... same conclusion). They're all about 60. Sure, lots of bands still tour a ton at that age. Pearl Jam are not one of those bands. From 2015-2020 they played 60 shows. Tour numbers since then are lower, but I'm not including that cuz pandemic touring isn't a proper representation of their desire to tour. And when they *DO* tour... their tickets are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than most bands of their ilk. Want to poop on a band for making way the hell too much money? Taylor Swift and Coldplay both raking in over a billion for their recent and current tours come to mind. Has Pearl Jam made a billion from a single tour?

Your point is valid. Your target is not.

Sure, they'll collecting revenue from already-made stuff, but that won't be impacted much by AI, at least compared to new stuff.

"Yeah, I kind of care a bit more about the little guy in this particular case" <--- As does Pearl Jam, which you'd know if you read the letter.

Prez wrote on Apr 2, 2024, 21:03:

Billie Eilish, Pearl Jam, 200 artists say AI poses existential threat to their livelihoods

You need to understand that by living a lifestyle that we largely cannot relate to makes it a bit hard for us to have a lot of concern along with you. As a former artist myself I understand, but most of us have a lot more to worry about than whether you will be able to remain insanely rich and popular.

Congrats on publicly announcing that you only read the headline and 100% obviously, clearly, and undeniably did not read and are not responding to the actual open letter signed by these celebrity artists. Well done.
I bet when the actors went on strike you presumed it was also only the actors worth hundreds of millions who were whining and crying about things and didn't even consider that JUST MAYBE those with the spotlight and stage were using their voice to speak for those artists who are struggling to survive. Or, to quote the actual words that they actually used and actually signed "For many working musicians, artists, and songwriters who are just trying to make ends meet, [being replaced by AI] would be catastrophic.

Also... are you *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY* calling out 22 year old Billie Eilish for being apprehensive about the future of her career? Yes, she's worth about 50 million on paper. That means 5, MAYBE 10 million if she converted it liquidly (just ask Trump about coming up w/ a cash equivalent to your alleged value). At first glace that seems like way more than enough. But let's say she retires now and lives to 72, so 60 years. That's a quarter million to a half million a year. EASY MONEY, right?

No. Cuz that'll be worth the equivalent of 50-100K in today's money. Definitely okay, but this is giving her VERY generous cashing-out terms and a shorter-than-average lifetime (i.e. more money per year).

Don't poop on the anxiety of 22 years who have had a great start at actually making something of themselves thru talent and hard work.

And read articles before pooping on those who express concern about the future.

I'm pretty sure that AI poses a significantly higher threat to the livelihoods of many, many white and blue collar workers, who unlike the rich and famous, won't exactly have a "nest egg" to fall back on when the times get hard. I love Pearl Jam, but I can't empathize with many of the artists who started out not giving a fuck about money, and creating great music just for the hell of it, and now primarily care about enshrining themselves in their palaces on their private islands. Yeah, I kind of care a bit more about the little guy in this particular case.

If it effects song/album sales, musicians and artists will just have to tour more and will likely charge even more for tickets. I know S1M0NE is happening in Japan, Korea, and China... but has it made any headway in Western societies?

Nothing was more effective at detecting weapons than the ADE 651. And this was decades before AI. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

If human beings will worship a human who they have never met in the flesh, or a god for which there is no evidence of its existence, then they have already shown themselves capable of worshipping an AI.

In our lifetimes we'll absolutely see flesh and blood human beings investing their entire personal identities into the cult of an AI and doing awful things because "an AI told them to do it."

Bill Borre wrote on Apr 2, 2024, 22:03:
I do not believe AI will change the human tendency to idolize small numbers of individuals within society but will be interested if I am proven wrong.

People worship all manner of gods, demons, spirits, etc. they'll worship specific AIs too. We have a tendency as a species to anthropomorphize things - which is why most of those gods, etc. are all generally humanoid in nature. Ghost in the Shell, man.

Someone needs to explain to those musicians that life isn't fair and have only as much right as an AI to make music, no more, no less. And if a machine can do what they do, as well or better, then they better be worried. It's not like AI and advanced robotics won't be replacing most people anyway. Meanwhile their complaint has as much validity as the lamplighters at the advent of electric lights, or the buggy manufacturers with the invention of the automobile. Learn to make a living doing something else in that case. I'm going to be starting a small farm because, you know, people will always need food.

Bill Borre wrote on Apr 2, 2024, 22:03:
I do not believe AI will change the human tendency to idolize small numbers of individuals within society but will be interested if I am proven wrong.

I think that too. When I was into a band it was about a lot more than just how they sounded. I just don't feel that AI is ever going to compete. I could be wrong but this feels like scare mongering when it really is much ado about nothing.