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19.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 14:25
19.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 14:25
Feb 27, 2024, 14:25
 
I'd say I'm "comfortable" rather than middle or upper class. I can pay my bills without hardship, have tons of money left over for fun things, go on vacations during the year whenever I wish, and so forth. But I also know that window is rapidly closing. Not a lot I can do about it except convert paper wealth in to tangible asset wealth. Paper wealth is useless when the 0.1% hoard it. Land, clean water, arable soil, and being independent of the vagaries of institutionalized power generation, food production manipulation (Tyson deciding to slow production to drive up the price of chicken, for example), and other self-sustainment will become the new wealth. Hard to be impacted by the manipulation of greedy corporatists when you have your own supply.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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18.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 13:44
18.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 13:44
Feb 27, 2024, 13:44
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 10:23:
Beamer wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 06:53:
Are we capitalist?
Who pays for my roads? Public school education? Medicaid? The military?

I would argue that we are and even capitalism understands that you have to at least pay lip service to the common good to prevent a populous coup. It's Libertarianism, in all its paint huffing, glue eating stupidity, that thinks everybody should pay exclusively for their own usage and fuck everyone who can't.

However, if you dig deep in to who pays for what, overwhelmingly the burden of those taxes fall on those who can least afford it while those who can most afford it have an army of lawyers and accountants to hide their money offshore, exploit tax loopholes, and bribe "lobby" politicians to continually stack the deck in their favor and avoid being as equally burdened as the average citizen.

There's a reason the middle class is disappearing, and has largely disappeared, and it started with Reagan and his tax cuts for his wealthy buddies.

I would have that discussion with you for hours. Lord knows my wife is sick of me hearing about how Reagan turned the pendulum back on socialist ideas and started us marching more towards a more true capitalist society, and how incredibly stupid that is because we will never have a free market when there's so much a power imbalance between workers and corporations/billionaires, and how that has become so much worse with Reagan's anti-union push, and with making corporations people.

Reagan is absolutely the end of the middle class. But it doesn't end there. I'm fortunate enough to be upper class, and there's still the existential dread of being left behind.The top 0.01% is accelerating much faster than anyone outside the top 0.1%, and at some point we're all left behind.
17.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 11:17
17.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 11:17
Feb 27, 2024, 11:17
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 10:49:
You know the so-called "socialist" countries have plenty of rich people too right? They just actually pay their fair share in taxes like everyone else - which is why their quality of life is so high.
Yup. They are also states having a capitalist economy, but they also have a society not ravaged by paranoid libertarians. They didnt have an Ayn Rand.
16.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 10:49
16.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 10:49
Feb 27, 2024, 10:49
 
All life works best in the Goldilocks zone - not too hot, not too cold, but just right. Too hot = capitalism, too cold = communism, just right = democratic socialism. You know the so-called "socialist" countries have plenty of rich people too right? They just actually pay their fair share in taxes like everyone else - which is why their quality of life is so high. You look at the UN quality of life index and you know where America ranks today? 33rd. Not even in the top 30 countries. Food and rent unaffordable, housing prices out of reach for most, medical aid and medicine unaffordable, water running out everywhere, entire ecosystems collapsing, economic migrants abound internally and externally, country actually on the verge of becoming a fascist oligarchy...oh yeah, really great system you have there. By all means you go ahead and enjoy your "capitalism".
"Van Gogh painted alone and in despair and in madness and sold one picture in his entire life. Millions struggled alone, unrecognized, and struggled as heroically as any famous hero. Was it worthless? I knew it wasn't."
15.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 10:23
15.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 10:23
Feb 27, 2024, 10:23
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 06:53:
Are we capitalist?
Who pays for my roads? Public school education? Medicaid? The military?

I would argue that we are and even capitalism understands that you have to at least pay lip service to the common good to prevent a populous coup. It's Libertarianism, in all its paint huffing, glue eating stupidity, that thinks everybody should pay exclusively for their own usage and fuck everyone who can't.

However, if you dig deep in to who pays for what, overwhelmingly the burden of those taxes fall on those who can least afford it while those who can most afford it have an army of lawyers and accountants to hide their money offshore, exploit tax loopholes, and bribe "lobby" politicians to continually stack the deck in their favor and avoid being as equally burdened as the average citizen.

There's a reason the middle class is disappearing, and has largely disappeared, and it started with Reagan and his tax cuts for his wealthy buddies.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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14.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 09:11
14.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 09:11
Feb 27, 2024, 09:11
 
The Watcher wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.

Now, do the same for a communist country, or, even, a 'socialist' country.

Compare them to the United States.

LOL, We're on the fast track to a total failure. Ever heard of late-stage captialism? It's going to collapse apocalyptically (And with how things are going, it won't be long now), and the fallout will be disastrous for everyone. Capitalism is a cancerous system. It's also destroyed the planet, and doesn't give a f*** due to the bottom line being more important. Maybe if enough of us survive the collapse the people responsible (The billionaires and those who protected them) will finally face the consequences.

This comment was edited on Feb 27, 2024, 09:24.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
13.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 08:58
Prez
 
13.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 08:58
Feb 27, 2024, 08:58
 Prez
 
Personally I measure success by happiness. Are you 'successful' if you are rich but miserable? Studies have shown that the US is a notoriously unhappy nation compared to socialist nations. I think we have a quasi capitalist/socialist society. But because capitalism is left completely unregulated, it is an utter disaster. The term "free market" has been been allowed to be perverted to "I have more money than you, so I'm untouchable and have almost unlimited power." Even among it's citizens, there is a pervasive "fuck you, I got mine" attitude. Of course capitalism seems like a disaster, since companies are allowed to do most whatever they want in their blind obsession with profit as they run slipshod over anyone and anything that stands in their way.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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12.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 07:36
Flo
 
12.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 07:36
Feb 27, 2024, 07:36
 Flo
 
El Pit wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:13:
AI will take away pretty much all the coding and creative jobs in the next decades. I think Nvidia's Huang put it a bit drastically but he is not completeley wrong.
Of course he wants you to believe that and drive his stock price. I have coded with github copilot, chatgpt etc. and in the end I was always faster if i had just googled. This is NOT AI because there is no intelligence. The output is not based on comprehension but rather on "sounds probably right".
You might get away with it in very very simple use cases, though.
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
11.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 06:53
11.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 06:53
Feb 27, 2024, 06:53
 
The Watcher wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.

Now, do the same for a communist country, or, even, a 'socialist' country.

Compare them to the United States.

Are we capitalist?
Who pays for my roads? Public school education? Medicaid? The military?
10.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 06:41
10.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 06:41
Feb 27, 2024, 06:41
 
AI is reshaping quite a few 'industries' now. AI means fewer people are needed to produce the same product. The enrichment of the 1% at the cost of unemployment for large swaths of the population is the new 'normal'. An it is just getting started, give it a few more years of a political system too wrapped up in a pissing contest civil war to ignore the impoverishment of it's people.

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride! - HT
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9.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 05:22
9.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 05:22
Feb 27, 2024, 05:22
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 03:15:
The Watcher wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.

Now, do the same for a communist country, or, even, a 'socialist' country.

Compare them to the United States.

Yet, relative to those socialist countries, the United States has objectively and quantifiably worse medical care, worse social safety programs, a worse standard of living, a worse educational systems, a less educated populace, higher prison populations, much higher rates of crime, much more frequent involvement in wars, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Wealth is, by far, not the only measure of success and power is fleeting. Every empire falls. Every single one. The US hasn't been around half as long as the British Empire, the French Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire or, hell, even the Hittite empire were. Until it reaches the halfway point of those empires, what you posted is just jingoistic flag waving.
Thank you.

Also, nobody is rooting for communism. That's effectively the opposite of socialism. Nobody wants fewer rights and more government oversight over regular people. We just want to live a decent life. That's fast becoming more and more difficult in the United States as its capitalist system approaches its inevitable end. Capitalism is the problem. You can trace basically every bad thing, every problem, in the United States (and often across the globe, as a side effect), back to capitalism as the cause. Ever-increasing profits is not sustainable. It's going to get a whole lot worse as the ruling class defends its way of life as capitalism approaches its death throes.
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8.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 03:15
8.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 03:15
Feb 27, 2024, 03:15
 
The Watcher wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.

Now, do the same for a communist country, or, even, a 'socialist' country.

Compare them to the United States.

Yet, relative to those socialist countries, the United States has objectively and quantifiably worse medical care, worse social safety programs, a worse standard of living, a worse educational systems, a less educated populace, higher prison populations, much higher rates of crime, much more frequent involvement in wars, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Wealth is, by far, not the only measure of success and power is fleeting. Every empire falls. Every single one. The US hasn't been around half as long as the British Empire, the French Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire or, hell, even the Hittite empire were. Until it reaches the halfway point of those empires, what you posted is just jingoistic flag waving.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
7.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 03:09
7.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 03:09
Feb 27, 2024, 03:09
 
The Watcher wrote on Feb 27, 2024, 01:52:
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.


Ah yes, but how do you measure success? By the county's richest people, or it's poorest? Think about that.
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6.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 01:52
6.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 01:52
Feb 27, 2024, 01:52
 
ForgedReality wrote on Feb 26, 2024, 21:17:
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)

Can't tell if this is a joke or not.

You do know the United States is the richest, most successful, most powerful country in the history of the planet, right?

And it is capitalist.

Now, do the same for a communist country, or, even, a 'socialist' country.

Compare them to the United States.
5.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 01:13
El Pit
 
5.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 01:13
Feb 27, 2024, 01:13
 El Pit
 
AI will take away pretty much all the coding and creative jobs in the next decades. I think Nvidia's Huang put it a bit drastically but he is not completeley wrong.
"There is no right life in the wrong one." (Theodor W. Adorno, philosopher)
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes." (Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi)
Founder, president, and only member of the official "Grumpy Old Gamers Club". Please do not apply.
4.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 27, 2024, 00:14
4.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 27, 2024, 00:14
Feb 27, 2024, 00:14
 
When I was younger I figured game dev would be a dream job. But who would want to work your butt off for 2-3 years (or more) just to be fired as soon as the game was released because the company's higher ups wanted to increase profits, and to have that be the norm for the industry?
3.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 26, 2024, 21:17
3.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 26, 2024, 21:17
Feb 26, 2024, 21:17
 
Reich-wingers are always like, "tHERE HAs EnVEr BEEN a SCUCEssfUl SOcIAliS tcOUTNry," despite the fact that there has never been a truly socialist country. But show me one single fucking capitalist country that succeeded. Thank a billionaire today! (with a punch to the face)
Avatar 55267
2.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 26, 2024, 20:29
2.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 26, 2024, 20:29
Feb 26, 2024, 20:29
 
"LeArN tO cOdE!1!1" they said...
1.
 
Re: Quoteworthy
Feb 26, 2024, 20:24
Prez
 
1.
Re: Quoteworthy Feb 26, 2024, 20:24
Feb 26, 2024, 20:24
 Prez
 
You had better hope they don't fire YOU
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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