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20.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 13, 2024, 05:06
Prez
 
20.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 13, 2024, 05:06
Feb 13, 2024, 05:06
 Prez
 
NKD wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 21:14:
If a live service game goes down because no one was playing it, was anything of value lost?

Very likely, yes.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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19.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 21:14
NKD
19.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 21:14
Feb 12, 2024, 21:14
NKD
 
If a live service game goes down because no one was playing it, was anything of value lost?

If anything it's an argument to not bother with single player elements in a live service game, and focus solely on the service.
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
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18.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 19:24
18.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 19:24
Feb 12, 2024, 19:24
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:20:
But why would the Super Bowl make Arkham Knight more played? Wouldn't it impact all games mostly equally?

At the moment, Suicide Squad isn't in the top 100 games being played. It's 10:15 on a Monday, but still. It's below Russian Fishing 4 and something just called Squad. It has 2,020 players at the moment. Arkham Knight has 3,176, so over 50% more. Arkham City GOTY has 1,266, and even Arkham Origins has 864.

Arkham Knight's 24 hour peak is higher than Suicide Squad, though only by about 25%, and its all time peak is over twice what Suicide Squad's is.
For a game that seems to rely upon recurring revenue, rather than a one-time sale, that's already kind of bleak.
Not saying it's the reason, but big events can cause people to do other things especially if they are playing a coop game where they might be waiting on some people to log back in. And 10:15 (I am assuming AM) on a Monday would also prevent coop for a lot of people who should be at work. I am sure Suicide Squad is actually not doing well, but if you want numbers that matter, it's best to do 24hour peaks not just current ones on a weekday. Check the peak tomorrow for today that should be a better measure.
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17.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 14:09
Prez
 
17.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 14:09
Feb 12, 2024, 14:09
 Prez
 
I have an answer to that, if anyone is interested. 😁😁
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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16.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 14:08
16.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 14:08
Feb 12, 2024, 14:08
 
Leahi84 wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 13:56:
Prez wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 12:53:
Lol. You don't own anything. They can pull those games just as easily. The idea of owning games is long dead. You're leasing it.

This fallacy gets repeated often, yet it is still complete fiction. It's no one's fault that this mistruth is constantly stated as if it were true. Companies have been trying their damnedest to get you to believe this for decades. The more people who take it as fact, the easier it will be to get away with further encroachment on consumer rights going forward.

Here's a simple test: if Steam suddenly removed my access on the storefront, how hard do you think it would be for me to be able to continue playing the game? Now, if a company who is running a live service shuts their servers off, how possible would it be for anyone to ever play it again? There's an ocean of difference.
You keep telling yourself that. Other than piracy, if they take it down, it's gone.

While you're not wholly wrong, how many AAA games without live services have wholly disappeared? Meaning, not just to acquire, but to play if you already acquired it.
15.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 14:03
Prez
 
15.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 14:03
Feb 12, 2024, 14:03
 Prez
 
You're allowed to be wrong. Have a good day sir.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
14.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 13:56
14.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 13:56
Feb 12, 2024, 13:56
 
Prez wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 12:53:
Lol. You don't own anything. They can pull those games just as easily. The idea of owning games is long dead. You're leasing it.

This fallacy gets repeated often, yet it is still complete fiction. It's no one's fault that this mistruth is constantly stated as if it were true. Companies have been trying their damnedest to get you to believe this for decades. The more people who take it as fact, the easier it will be to get away with further encroachment on consumer rights going forward.

Here's a simple test: if Steam suddenly removed my access on the storefront, how hard do you think it would be for me to be able to continue playing the game? Now, if a company who is running a live service shuts their servers off, how possible would it be for anyone to ever play it again? There's an ocean of difference.
You keep telling yourself that. Other than piracy, if they take it down, it's gone.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
13.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 12:53
Prez
 
13.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 12:53
Feb 12, 2024, 12:53
 Prez
 
Lol. You don't own anything. They can pull those games just as easily. The idea of owning games is long dead. You're leasing it.

This fallacy gets repeated often, yet it is still complete fiction. It's no one's fault that this mistruth is constantly stated as if it were true. Companies have been trying their damnedest to get you to believe this for decades. The more people who take it as fact, the easier it will be to get away with further encroachment on consumer rights going forward.

Here's a simple test: if Steam suddenly removed my access on the storefront, how hard do you think it would be for me to be able to continue playing the game? Now, if a company who is running a live service shuts their servers off, how possible would it be for anyone to ever play it again? There's an ocean of difference.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
12.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 12:10
12.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 12:10
Feb 12, 2024, 12:10
 
Xero wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 11:43:
Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:50:
Prez wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:45:
This is back to my original argument. People put too much stock in Steam stats without context. The main difference with a live service? Perception. Dark Souls, Fallout, or whatever else can ebb a flow up and down for years in Steam stats and the worst thing that will happen is that they will be used erroneously to say
game 'A' is superior to game 'B' because stats are higher for one or the other. My favorite is a game being declared "dead". I remember I reinstalled an old singleplayer game (the original Baldur's Gate maybe?) and I was like one of maybe 10 people playing it at the time according to Steam stats. It's not dead; I am playing it after 30 years.

The perception that a live service is 'dead' is a real problem however. Once the perception is that a game is 'dead' or 'dying' can easily become self-propagating by stories like this. Unlike singleplayer games, live services actually can 'die'. Regardless if it's true or not, when enough people spread the word that a game is 'dead', the player count will drop, the company makes less money, and the danger of the publisher shutting down the servers becomes a real one.

Undeniably. A single player can be rediscovered and reevaluated down the road. A live service is much less likely to because the cost of keeping it up is too great, so it gets shuttered rapidly when growth is no longer looking realistic.

Even something like a CDPR game, which takes a lot of effort in patching, is cheaper than a live service game, because the live service has all of that plus the infrastructure to keep it running.

Makes me wonder. Would they pull a Marvel's Avengers and pull the game from the market eventually? I don't understand these games that are created for single player, but then constantly bleed $$$ to keep a server active to basically give you the rights to play it.

How about, give us the classic, we bought the single player game, we own it, no server involved. I play it locally until I'm sick of it and we're done. You don't need to lose anymore money over the money I already gave you to purchase the game to begin with.

Lol. You don't own anything. They can pull those games just as easily. The idea of owning games is long dead. You're leasing it.
“For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.”
― Richard P. Feynman
11.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 11:43
11.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 11:43
Feb 12, 2024, 11:43
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:50:
Prez wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:45:
This is back to my original argument. People put too much stock in Steam stats without context. The main difference with a live service? Perception. Dark Souls, Fallout, or whatever else can ebb a flow up and down for years in Steam stats and the worst thing that will happen is that they will be used erroneously to say
game 'A' is superior to game 'B' because stats are higher for one or the other. My favorite is a game being declared "dead". I remember I reinstalled an old singleplayer game (the original Baldur's Gate maybe?) and I was like one of maybe 10 people playing it at the time according to Steam stats. It's not dead; I am playing it after 30 years.

The perception that a live service is 'dead' is a real problem however. Once the perception is that a game is 'dead' or 'dying' can easily become self-propagating by stories like this. Unlike singleplayer games, live services actually can 'die'. Regardless if it's true or not, when enough people spread the word that a game is 'dead', the player count will drop, the company makes less money, and the danger of the publisher shutting down the servers becomes a real one.

Undeniably. A single player can be rediscovered and reevaluated down the road. A live service is much less likely to because the cost of keeping it up is too great, so it gets shuttered rapidly when growth is no longer looking realistic.

Even something like a CDPR game, which takes a lot of effort in patching, is cheaper than a live service game, because the live service has all of that plus the infrastructure to keep it running.

Makes me wonder. Would they pull a Marvel's Avengers and pull the game from the market eventually? I don't understand these games that are created for single player, but then constantly bleed $$$ to keep a server active to basically give you the rights to play it.

How about, give us the classic, we bought the single player game, we own it, no server involved. I play it locally until I'm sick of it and we're done. You don't need to lose anymore money over the money I already gave you to purchase the game to begin with.
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10.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 11:10
10.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 11:10
Feb 12, 2024, 11:10
 
Palworld on Gamepass is so damned buggy. In multiplayer it crashes about every 20-30 minutes. Very annoying.
9.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 10:50
9.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 10:50
Feb 12, 2024, 10:50
 
Prez wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 10:45:
This is back to my original argument. People put too much stock in Steam stats without context. The main difference with a live service? Perception. Dark Souls, Fallout, or whatever else can ebb a flow up and down for years in Steam stats and the worst thing that will happen is that they will be used erroneously to say
game 'A' is superior to game 'B' because stats are higher for one or the other. My favorite is a game being declared "dead". I remember I reinstalled an old singleplayer game (the original Baldur's Gate maybe?) and I was like one of maybe 10 people playing it at the time according to Steam stats. It's not dead; I am playing it after 30 years.

The perception that a live service is 'dead' is a real problem however. Once the perception is that a game is 'dead' or 'dying' can easily become self-propagating by stories like this. Unlike singleplayer games, live services actually can 'die'. Regardless if it's true or not, when enough people spread the word that a game is 'dead', the player count will drop, the company makes less money, and the danger of the publisher shutting down the servers becomes a real one.

Undeniably. A single player can be rediscovered and reevaluated down the road. A live service is much less likely to because the cost of keeping it up is too great, so it gets shuttered rapidly when growth is no longer looking realistic.

Even something like a CDPR game, which takes a lot of effort in patching, is cheaper than a live service game, because the live service has all of that plus the infrastructure to keep it running.
8.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 10:45
Prez
 
8.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 10:45
Feb 12, 2024, 10:45
 Prez
 
This is back to my original argument. People put too much stock in Steam stats without context. The main difference with a live service? Perception. Dark Souls, Fallout, or whatever else can ebb a flow up and down for years in Steam stats and the worst thing that will happen is that they will be used erroneously to say
game 'A' is superior to game 'B' because stats are higher for one or the other. My favorite is a game being declared "dead". I remember I reinstalled an old singleplayer game (the original Baldur's Gate maybe?) and I was like one of maybe 10 people playing it at the time according to Steam stats. It's not dead; I am playing it after 30 years.

The perception that a live service is 'dead' is a real problem however. Once the perception is that a game is 'dead' or 'dying' can easily become self-propagating by stories like this. Unlike singleplayer games, live services actually can 'die'. Regardless if it's true or not, when enough people spread the word that a game is 'dead', the player count will drop, the company makes less money, and the danger of the publisher shutting down the servers becomes a real one.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
7.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 10:20
7.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 10:20
Feb 12, 2024, 10:20
 
LurkerLito wrote on Feb 12, 2024, 09:40:
Is it really anything to be concerned about? The article was published on Superbowl Sunday, so I don't see how it is an indicator of anything other than someone thinking it would make a great click bait article since there would be a big drop of US players over this particular weekend. Just saying it wasn't just a normal weekend in the US anyway.

But why would the Super Bowl make Arkham Knight more played? Wouldn't it impact all games mostly equally?

At the moment, Suicide Squad isn't in the top 100 games being played. It's 10:15 on a Monday, but still. It's below Russian Fishing 4 and something just called Squad. It has 2,020 players at the moment. Arkham Knight has 3,176, so over 50% more. Arkham City GOTY has 1,266, and even Arkham Origins has 864.

Arkham Knight's 24 hour peak is higher than Suicide Squad, though only by about 25%, and its all time peak is over twice what Suicide Squad's is.
For a game that seems to rely upon recurring revenue, rather than a one-time sale, that's already kind of bleak.
6.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 09:59
6.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 09:59
Feb 12, 2024, 09:59
 
deleted
“I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack
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5.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 09:40
5.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 09:40
Feb 12, 2024, 09:40
 
Is it really anything to be concerned about? The article was published on Superbowl Sunday, so I don't see how it is an indicator of anything other than someone thinking it would make a great click bait article since there would be a big drop of US players over this particular weekend. Just saying it wasn't just a normal weekend in the US anyway.
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4.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 08:34
4.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 08:34
Feb 12, 2024, 08:34
 
Palword down
The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
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3.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 08:13
3.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 08:13
Feb 12, 2024, 08:13
 
Dead game®
2.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 06:34
2.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 06:34
Feb 12, 2024, 06:34
 
Steam's peak player count constituted less than 2-3% of the game's total playerbase, if you applied basic mathematics to the in-game cross-platform scoreboards, using trophy progression percentages. This should come as little surprise, given the absolute joke of a state that Arkham Knight and Gotham Knights went out in on PC - and were left in - for months.

The vast majority of ppl who wanted to buy this, bought it on consoles. And watching the orchestrated hate the game is receiving is laughable, given what we learnt from watching the exact same response to Destiny's launch.

A couple of hours back, Killing Time had 29,994 players logged.

Killing Time unlocks at Mastery level 5.

3.7% of Steam players have reached Master level 5.

Presuming every player who has reached Mastery level 5 has run Killing Time and logged a score, then the overall player population is:

29,994 / 0.037 = ~810,000 players.

Things worth taking away from this approximation:

Steam's sales and consecutive player count numbers are irrelevant to any discussion regarding the game, as they are largely inconsequential to overall sales figures.

If the console playerbase has a more casual approach to the title, then the population figure will be higher.

If players don't run Killing Time after unlocking it, due to the much longer time commitment and the fact that it doesn't appear to progress overall Mastery level in the way that the other three incursions do, then the population figure will be higher.

(Thanks to u/TheAllslayer for correcting me on the Mastery level unlock for Killing Time on my previous post - mine seems to have been bugged, or slow to register.)

This comment was edited on Feb 12, 2024, 06:54.
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1.
 
Re: Engagement Ring
Feb 12, 2024, 05:42
1.
Re: Engagement Ring Feb 12, 2024, 05:42
Feb 12, 2024, 05:42
 
I’m not really sure watching the active players list on steam is an accurate way to judge a games worth. Because it will fluctuate more wildly then a stock market graph.

Not everyone sticks to a game, not daily anyhow, some days people are just not playing and other days they are. If you go into to minute details then you lose the big picture.
Rimmer: “Step up to Red Alert.”
Kryten: “Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.”
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20 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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