WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 09:56:
Downright ugly even when it came out.

Graphically? No, it was on par with similar games at the time. Aesthetically? Well, duh, it's supposed to be ugly, you do know the setting the game is in right? They nailed the look with the rather limiting tech of the Quake engine.

Nullity wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 15:57:

Sho wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 19:58:
Now when it comes to remastering B-tier Quake-engined shooters, a Soldier of Fortune remaster might be something ...

Would that be the version that finally makes it fun?

... I'm disappointed in all of you that no one jumped at this before me.

Jokes aside, I'd try that. I was a big fan of the SoF games back in the day.

Dude deserves a slap for calling SoF B-tier in the first place.

Prez wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 16:58:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 09:56:
Downright ugly even when it came out.

They said the same thing about me as a baby. *SNIFF*

Nahh, you're just all heart, yes, not a pretty organ, but indispensable.

yuastnav wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 03:35:
By the way a bit off topic - how's your work at KDE going? Haven't seen you in a while.

Hey! Still going strong! I also ended up working with Valve on the Steam Deck for a bit as part of that (Desktop Mode is us), so for a while it overlapped with the gaming

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 09:56:
Downright ugly even when it came out.

They said the same thing about me as a baby. *SNIFF*

Sho wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 19:58:
Now when it comes to remastering B-tier Quake-engined shooters, a Soldier of Fortune remaster might be something ...

Would that be the version that finally makes it fun?

... I'm disappointed in all of you that no one jumped at this before me.

Jokes aside, I'd try that. I was a big fan of the SoF games back in the day.

Jeez £15 for this? I played the original when it got released and the multiplayer was awesome as the sfx & maps were brilliant.
I still got the game, I rather wait until it is dramatically reduced before maybe buying for the multiplayer side.

I enjoyed multiplayer back in the day. It had rather interesting and uniquely different takes on CTF and deathmatch. Single player was meh, except for the shock value of the language.

Since this has no multiplayer, and reviews are awful, I'll wait until it's deeply discounted.

I think I liked Kingpin and Soldier of Fortune when they came out. I honestly can't remember for sure. But in wondering if they're going to hold up, I would have to remember what was the main draw that made them really popular in the first place. I think (emphasis on *think*) that the novelty of each game is what made what otherwise might have been rather run-of-the-mill shooters kind of interesting. Because both of those things (the swearing and the graphic violence) have been highly redone and become basically the norm, I'm not sure that would make for an interesting game. I know 'Kingpin' isn't reviewing very well right now, but I haven't read the reviews as to why.

Downright ugly even when it came out.

Dash wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 06:31:

DukeFNukem wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 05:44:

Dash wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 02:43:
Yeah. That was what they were doing before skeletal animation, iirc. When you made models, you moved the vertices around and had to be real careful on moving things, or you get weird bends, creases, literal 'self-folding' and the like. Just the tech they had at the time.

But if that's true, what other games were like this at the time?

Think anything that was running off of Quake/Quake2. I remember playing PS1-era games that might have been doing the same thing. Wild9 felt like it did, anyway. Think Crash Bandicoot did as well. I can really only go off what I remember playing and seeing the weird way the models moved. I know skeletal animation rigging has been around since 88', but I'm not sure when it became more prevalent than vertices animation to completely supplant it as a more efficient means of model animation.

The real reason for them moving like that was precision, the .mdl stored as arrays of 8-bit integer values (multiplied by a 32-bit floating point scalar), which resulted in the "swimming" effect when animated. This would occur even if you used modelling software with bones for animation. I once made a 3D model of the Reiver from Hexen for Hexen 2, animated it with a full skeleton before exporting it and it had the same issues.

DukeFNukem wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 05:44:

Dash wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 02:43:
Yeah. That was what they were doing before skeletal animation, iirc. When you made models, you moved the vertices around and had to be real careful on moving things, or you get weird bends, creases, literal 'self-folding' and the like. Just the tech they had at the time.

But if that's true, what other games were like this at the time?

Think anything that was running off of Quake/Quake2. I remember playing PS1-era games that might have been doing the same thing. Wild9 felt like it did, anyway. Think Crash Bandicoot did as well. I can really only go off what I remember playing and seeing the weird way the models moved. I know skeletal animation rigging has been around since 88', but I'm not sure when it became more prevalent than vertices animation to completely supplant it as a more efficient means of model animation.

Dash wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 02:43:
Yeah. That was what they were doing before skeletal animation, iirc. When you made models, you moved the vertices around and had to be real careful on moving things, or you get weird bends, creases, literal 'self-folding' and the like. Just the tech they had at the time.

But if that's true, what other games were like this at the time?

Sho wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 19:58:
I can't say I needed this one. One of the few games I couldn't get past the first hour in, it was just so tasteless and otherwise drab.

Now when it comes to remastering B-tier Quake-engined shooters, a Soldier of Fortune remaster might be something ...

Soldier of fortune - now that might be something!

By the way a bit off topic - how's your work at KDE going? Haven't seen you in a while.

Sho wrote on Dec 6, 2023, 00:23:

Dash wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 23:39:
Enjoyed the original... But definitely remember all the weird shifting that vertex animation was known for. Seemed more prevalent in that game, for some reason.

I remember this, too - characters in this game were wavy apparitions. Even as a kid I was surprised they shipped it like that.

Yeah. That was what they were doing before skeletal animation, iirc. When you made models, you moved the vertices around and had to be real careful on moving things, or you get weird bends, creases, literal 'self-folding' and the like. Just the tech they had at the time.

I really enjoyed the original, it really clicked once you started playing it safe in gunfights. But this remaster looks pretty bad, and the reviews so far reflect that sentiment. I'mma pass for now.

Dash wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 23:39:
Enjoyed the original... But definitely remember all the weird shifting that vertex animation was known for. Seemed more prevalent in that game, for some reason.

I remember this, too - characters in this game were wavy apparitions. Even as a kid I was surprised they shipped it like that.

Enjoyed the original... But definitely remember all the weird shifting that vertex animation was known for. Seemed more prevalent in that game, for some reason.

In the FAQ from the devs in the Steam discussion forums for this game they said it would come with a copy of Life of Crime and Multiplayer. Neither is the case.

Xero wrote on Dec 5, 2023, 20:10:
That said, I also dropped Soldier of Fortune somewhere in a previous thread that it is long overdue for a remaster. I had a blast with that game. Heck, even 2 wasn't bad and actually the gore was more realistic which is saying a lot considering how brutal the original was for its time.

Yup, both Soldier of Fortune games were regular staples in our after-work LAN parties back in the day. There was just something immensely cathartic about blowing off the heads and limbs of your co-workers after a long day in the office.

As for Kingpin - I bought it when it first came out. It wasn't particularly fun or memorable back then (aside from the excessive swearing) so I have little inclination to revisit it again now.