Out of the Blue

I was minding my own business looking at something on Amazon when I came across the Vari Active Seat, which almost knocked me off my own seat. Why? Because it's a standing desk chair. Turns out this is just my ignorance showing again, because looking further, I can see these are a whole segment at this point. The one I stumbled across and most of the others I see all advertise wobbliness as a feature. I've never tried a standing desk, much less a wobbly chair, and they may be an awesome combo, but the very existence of standing desk chairs does seem to be an indictment of the whole concept. It reminds me of a gag in the criminally underappreciated sitcom Episodes, where there was an agent you would always see on a treadmill desk. Then there was a scene with her sitting at a desk normally, wearing some bandages, while you saw workers moving the treadmill desk out of her office. It all goes unmentioned, which, while not actually subtle, was a fun understated execution of the joke. Anyway, if you like a standing desk, you do you. The real takeaway here is that you should watch Episodes.

Misunderstanding Round-up
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18.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 4, 2023, 16:39
18.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 4, 2023, 16:39
Dec 4, 2023, 16:39
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Dec 4, 2023, 13:50:
Prez wrote on Dec 3, 2023, 11:38:
What you definitely don't want to do is wire it across the mains or the mains breaker as I've seen some people do. If the WHSP shorts out taking a surge, and the breaker is over 20 amps, or it's directly on the mains, it's going to explode and burn. I've seen that happen a lot at client's homes and offices.

That was something I was wondering. Are these whole home surge protectors sacrificial like a fuse (i.e. after they do their job once they need to be replaced) or are they designed for repeated usage like a resettable overload?

They are all basically the same technology. There's some circuitry in there that will sink any voltage over 220 volts to ground. For short and relatively low voltage surges, it just sinks it to ground harmlessly without damage. However, if you take a big surge, or a direct lighting strike, it will sacrifice itself to try to protect the house.

That's why they have status lights on them. If the lights are off, and it's breaker is on, then the unit took a fatal hit, and is dead and needs to be replaced.

The biggest difference between models is how much voltage they can sink to ground before being destroyed.

Thanks again TFP
The Flying Penguin wrote on Aug 24, 2022, 19:18:
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 24, 2022, 11:42:
The Flying Penguin wrote on Aug 24, 2022, 11:13:
Bad thunder storm here last night. Near strike blew up (yes literally blew up) the surge protector on the well pump. Thankfully it did its job and took the hit, while protecting the pump. Bypassed it and was up and running in no time. Need to go into town later and pickup a replacement surge protector.
Awesome, could you post a link or pic of that device (both the blown one if it looks cool and the new one).

I always tell folks that it’s 70/30 whether a surge protector will perform as expected and conditions have to be top notch (wiring, ground, the gods, surge protector hadn’t experienced too many high voltage clamping incidents, was the device being protected running or off etc.) and add that nothing will protect from a direct strike.
300 million Volts / 30,000 Amps that traversed 2 miles across the sky will find a way and look at a ups as nothing more than a speedbump.

Here in Florida, whole house surge protectors are recommended, and will be required in new construction and renovations starting the end of this year. I have always made sure my investment houses (and my own) have them installed. They usually look like small 2 x 2 inch cubes attached to you outside electrical panel (inside installs are not recommended because they can catch fire or explode when they take a hit).

The problem is that the old surge protectors didn't have an indicator to tell you when they were damaged by a surge. Unless they explode or burn, you'd never know. I recommend buying one of the modern ones with an indicator light that shows you it's working.

It's not normal to see one of these installed on a well pump controller box, but in this particular house the well pump is on it's own meter because it predates the house (this property used to be a tree farm). Usually your well is connected to the house panel, and hopefully your house panel has a surge protector.

Here's a photo of the one that fried. It was still smoking when I went out to check it. You can see the burn hole in it's side. I've actually seen ones that just exploded after a hit: http://www.soldcentralfl.com/bob/old_surge.jpg

I'm replacing it with one of these: Link

My main house has a fancier, much more expensive model: http://www.soldcentralfl.com/bob/Eaton_Surge.jpg

Yeah, I actually saw a house take a direct strike - hit the CB antenna and propagated through the house wiring - in a house across the street from me in the 70's, granted when houses had less protection. EVERYTHING in that house was fried, from the TV to the electric range. As a sound engineer at three horse tracks in South Florida in the 90's I've seen more than my fair share of lightning damage. Most hits are near strikes and the damage is from the electromagnetic field created by the strike which induces a current in any transformer or coil nearby. I've actually had audio amplifiers damaged by lighting that were not plugged in or connected to anything. It was just the induction of current from the strike that friend them. Lightning is a bad mother, and it goes wherever it wants to. Most of the time you're a victim of a near hit and that's bad enough. A direct strike can be deadly. We've had a few houses burned down around here due to direct strikes.
"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
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17.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 4, 2023, 13:50
17.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 4, 2023, 13:50
Dec 4, 2023, 13:50
 
Prez wrote on Dec 3, 2023, 11:38:
Verno wrote on Dec 3, 2023, 07:38:

Invest in your body now folks, pays dividends later.

NOW he tells me...

What you definitely don't want to do is wire it across the mains or the mains breaker as I've seen some people do. If the WHSP shorts out taking a surge, and the breaker is over 20 amps, or it's directly on the mains, it's going to explode and burn. I've seen that happen a lot at client's homes and offices.

That was something I was wondering. Are these whole home surge protectors sacrificial like a fuse (i.e. after they do their job once they need to be replaced) or are they designed for repeated usage like a resettable overload?

They are all basically the same technology. There's some circuitry in there that will sink any voltage over 220 volts to ground. For short and relatively low voltage surges, it just sinks it to ground harmlessly without damage. However, if you take a big surge, or a direct lighting strike, it will sacrifice itself to try to protect the house.

That's why they have status lights on them. If the lights are off, and it's breaker is on, then the unit took a fatal hit, and is dead and needs to be replaced.

The biggest difference between models is how much voltage they can sink to ground before being destroyed.
"Turns out I’m 'woke.' All along, I thought I was just compassionate, kind, and good at history. "
Avatar 22380
16.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 4, 2023, 11:47
16.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 4, 2023, 11:47
Dec 4, 2023, 11:47
 
Never heard of Episodes, but I just noticed that the lady is the actress from Black Books, one of my favourite British sitcoms.
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15.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 3, 2023, 11:38
Prez
 
15.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 3, 2023, 11:38
Dec 3, 2023, 11:38
 Prez
 
Verno wrote on Dec 3, 2023, 07:38:

Invest in your body now folks, pays dividends later.

NOW he tells me...

What you definitely don't want to do is wire it across the mains or the mains breaker as I've seen some people do. If the WHSP shorts out taking a surge, and the breaker is over 20 amps, or it's directly on the mains, it's going to explode and burn. I've seen that happen a lot at client's homes and offices.

That was something I was wondering. Are these whole home surge protectors sacrificial like a fuse (i.e. after they do their job once they need to be replaced) or are they designed for repeated usage like a resettable overload?

This comment was edited on Dec 3, 2023, 12:12.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
14.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 3, 2023, 09:58
14.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 3, 2023, 09:58
Dec 3, 2023, 09:58
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 2, 2023, 15:15:
Thanks again for that info yesterday, BOP. I'm curious why your install was so expensive though. Looking at Pop Mech's best WHSPs for 2023Pop Mech's best WHSPs for 2023 none of them are over $300US, except one. The Square D one from that list I'm looking at on Amazon right now is on sale for $119CDN - Schneider Electric – Square D HEPD Whole Home Electronics Protective Device - which is like, 10 bux American. I can't imagine it would take more than an hour to install by the electrician. From the few articles I read on them, they say they do make a difference in the event of a lightning strike, and while you shouldn't need plug-in SPs in the house after that it doesn't hurt to have the additional protection for stuff like PCs and TVs. And the warranty on the thing is 5 years and 75 grand in the event that it fails. Has to be installed by a licensed electrician for the warranty however.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to ask. Do these things require an empty breaker to take up? My panel is full, but I think at least two of them aren't tied to anything.

Code varies by state, but here in FL it is required to connect the WHSP to it's own dedicated breaker (a 20 amp 2 pole is the recommendation). That said, yes, you could connect it to an existing breaker, but be aware code in most states also does not allow more than one wire to be attached to a breaker terminal.

The legit fix is to replace one of your double pole breskersr with a split double pole breaker, that turns a single double pole breaker into two double pole breakers. That's what that they had to do on one of my main panels at the new house (I have two panels because I have 400 amp service here).

What you definitely don't want to do is wire it across the mains or the mains breaker as I've seen some people do. If the WHSP shorts out taking a surge, and the breaker is over 20 amps, or it's directly on the mains, it's going to explode and burn. I've seen that happen a lot at client's homes and offices.

FYI, I have two of the Eaton WHSPs that is the first in that Pop Mech article. My electrician says they're the best.
"Turns out I’m 'woke.' All along, I thought I was just compassionate, kind, and good at history. "
Avatar 22380
13.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 3, 2023, 07:38
13.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 3, 2023, 07:38
Dec 3, 2023, 07:38
 
Same, I went sit/stand at the office and at home. At the office I stand all day and sit when I get a call or video chat to give the body a break. At home I just do it when I feel like it. Just really nice changing up your posture/etc. Also helps stave off osteoarthritis and all of that fun stuff later in life.

Invest in your body now folks, pays dividends later.
Avatar 51617
12.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 23:41
12.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 23:41
Dec 2, 2023, 23:41
 
I can't comment on wobble chairs however I switched to a standing desk for all my video gaming a few years ago. I can't even imagine sitting and playing anymore, I noticed increased engagement with the games and much better focus/attention in fast paced shooters/multiplayer games.

I would encourage everyone to try sitting less, even if it means just incorporating micro stretching/exercising in between long sitting periods. There are many findings lately on how bad sitting is, humans weren't made to sit like we do in today's society.

Scitechdaily - even sleeping is better than sitting
11.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 23:37
11.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 23:37
Dec 2, 2023, 23:37
 
I honestly don't know, never considered nor would I use epic. :NoepicCootiesForMe:
Maybe they meant an online game but were posting in TOW?
The only online game, I can think of they made (making?) is Grounded.
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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10.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 20:01
Prez
 
10.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 20:01
Dec 2, 2023, 20:01
 Prez
 
Really? You need Epic's servers to play an offline game? Don't they have an offline mode?

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2023, 20:17.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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9.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 19:01
9.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 19:01
Dec 2, 2023, 19:01
 
Apparently epic event Blue has posted today, crashed all their servers.
Saw complaints in Obsidian Discord, people could not play their epic The Outer Worlds.
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
Avatar 1858
8.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 18:31
8.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 18:31
Dec 2, 2023, 18:31
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 2, 2023, 15:41:
Cutter wrote on Dec 2, 2023, 15:15:
Thanks again for that info yesterday, BOP. I'm curious why your install was so expensive though.

You are quite welcome.

Because what you linked is for a single phase unit with only 80kA of protection. What I linked was for two phase that can handle up to 240v and offers 200kA of protection with alerts and monitoring. Lightning can deliver anywhere from 20kA to 200kA per strike. I'd rather cover the maximum.

Ahh, I figured it was something heavy duty. Our grid is good and we don't have a lot of lightning so I think I'm ok with this and a few outlet SPs. Thanks.

"While playing golf today I hit two good balls. I stepped on a rake." - Henny Youngman
7.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 15:41
7.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 15:41
Dec 2, 2023, 15:41
 
Cutter wrote on Dec 2, 2023, 15:15:
Thanks again for that info yesterday, BOP. I'm curious why your install was so expensive though.

You are quite welcome.

Because what you linked is for a single phase unit with only 80kA of protection. What I linked was for two phase that can handle up to 240v and offers 200kA of protection with alerts and monitoring. Lightning can deliver anywhere from 20kA to 200kA per strike. I'd rather cover the maximum.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
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6.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 15:24
Prez
 
6.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 15:24
Dec 2, 2023, 15:24
 Prez
 
jdreyer wrote on Dec 2, 2023, 15:05:
the Vari Active Seat,

Aaaaaand, they're gone. Completely sold out. That's the power of Blue over the vast hordes of Bluesers, one recommendation can affect the fortunes of niche industries.

I might have overreacted just a touch by ordering the remaining 271 in stock.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
5.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 15:15
5.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 15:15
Dec 2, 2023, 15:15
 
Thanks again for that info yesterday, BOP. I'm curious why your install was so expensive though. Looking at Pop Mech's best WHSPs for 2023Pop Mech's best WHSPs for 2023 none of them are over $300US, except one. The Square D one from that list I'm looking at on Amazon right now is on sale for $119CDN - Schneider Electric – Square D HEPD Whole Home Electronics Protective Device - which is like, 10 bux American. I can't imagine it would take more than an hour to install by the electrician. From the few articles I read on them, they say they do make a difference in the event of a lightning strike, and while you shouldn't need plug-in SPs in the house after that it doesn't hurt to have the additional protection for stuff like PCs and TVs. And the warranty on the thing is 5 years and 75 grand in the event that it fails. Has to be installed by a licensed electrician for the warranty however.

Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to ask. Do these things require an empty breaker to take up? My panel is full, but I think at least two of them aren't tied to anything.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2023, 15:36.
"While playing golf today I hit two good balls. I stepped on a rake." - Henny Youngman
4.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 15:07
4.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 15:07
Dec 2, 2023, 15:07
 
It smokes all other 800+hp trucks and handles good.
Marques Brownlee delves deeper into the cybertruck for the standard plebian https://youtu.be/XxOh12Uhg08?si=ruNTtQZY_uH5BjxY

"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
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3.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 15:05
3.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 15:05
Dec 2, 2023, 15:05
 
the Vari Active Seat,

Aaaaaand, they're gone. Completely sold out. That's the power of Blue over the vast hordes of Bluesers, one recommendation can affect the fortunes of niche industries.
If Russia stops fighting, the war ends. If Ukraine stops fighting, Ukraine ends. Slava Ukraini!
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2.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 14:43
2.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 14:43
Dec 2, 2023, 14:43
 
Indeed. That wobbly chair, while a good idea in theory, looks more like a bunch of major lawsuits waiting to happen.

They're always known that somatic tinnitus is a combination of factors usually involving hearing loss, damage to the inner ear cilia, and some form of damage either related to TMJ issues and/or the cervical spine. It's why most people - like me - with chronic tinnitus can modify their tinnitus simply by engaging neck and jaw muscles. Me stretching my neck looking as far left or right as I can makes my T spike. And I have advanced disc degeneration in my C&T spines from damage years ago - a quack Chiro who injured my neck badly and a bad car accident - The rest of the article is interesting but a lot of that was already known for years.

"We're not talking about a treatment — for the first time, we're talking about a possible cure," said Dr. Stéphane F. Maison, clinical director of the Tinnitus Clinic at the Mass Eye and Ear hospital in Boston.

Bring on. In this noisy world more and more people are suffering from it. Meanwhile Dr. Susan Shore's device will be here within a year or two and that's the most promising thing I've seen for a treatment and/or possible cure. And Frequency Therapeutics has been working on a treatment for repairing cilia for several years now too, that is also very promising. Whoever invents a cure is going to be rich as Midas.

RE: Nukular madness.... - No, give it a rest already.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2023, 15:07.
"While playing golf today I hit two good balls. I stepped on a rake." - Henny Youngman
1.
 
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding
Dec 2, 2023, 13:55
1.
Re: OotB: Misunderstanding Dec 2, 2023, 13:55
Dec 2, 2023, 13:55
 
Yes, Episodes was amazing! Also - because LeBlanc always makes me think Friends - Coupling was very funny as well. The UK version, not the terrible, TERRIBLE US remake.

Paraguay now is like Columbia in the 80s. Are drugs illegal, ehhhhh, nominally. Does the government really enforce that, or do they let the cartels grow a shitload of coke and grass? Yeah...bribes are awesome.

The real red-headed step child of SA is Uruguay, who decided to enact a real anti-violence policy by decriminalizing all drugs for personal use. And there goes the crime rate, now one of the lowest in SA. We know that would work here too, as it's exactly what happened when we dropped our idiotic ban on alcohol; Crime levels dropped dramatically, violent crimes dropped to lower levels than pre-prohibition. But we'd rather focus on symptoms than causes here, because the alphabet soup agencies fund their bullshit with the war on drugs.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2023, 14:06.
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