Out of the Blue

We recently made a small change to our coffee routine that has turned out more helpful than I expected. During a recent shopping trip our big box store was out of the big bags of Starbucks French Roast coffee beans, so we got some house blend. Not surprisingly, the coffee tasted a bit less robust at first. But I it was a surprise that I was able to adjust so quickly, as it tastes perfectly fine to me now. So I'm viewing this as good news, because I was used to finding coffee other than my own less satisfying too. But now that I've made my adjustment, this will go a lot better for me. I'm sure I'll still prefer my own over the coffee most places make, but I expect to like coffee on the go a lot better now.

Obituary: Rosalynn Carter death- former first lady and wife of Jimmy Carter, passes away at 96.
Obituary: Joss Ackland, star of White Mischief, dies aged 95.

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60 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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40.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 11:22
40.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 11:22
Nov 21, 2023, 11:22
 
RedEye9 wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 10:53:
WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 10:40:
Survive ? Why not ?
For example, no one is nukeing the whole amazon area, etc.
Depending on the scale, many, or some, or the few, or the very lucky (?) will survive.

Even in the USA territory, the intelligent and well prepared can make their own luck, to the bewilderment of the clueless.
survive? WHY?
Nuclear Winter doesn't care unless you're talking about a totally different "amazon area" or "USA territory" that's not on Earth.
https://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/WiresClimateChangeNW.pdf
“Smoke from the fires started by nuclear weapons, especially the black, sooty smoke from cities and industrial facilities, would be heated by the Sun, lofted into the upper stratosphere, and spread globally, lasting for years. The resulting cool, dark, dry conditions at Earth’s surface would prevent crop growth for at least one growing season, resulting in mass starvation over most of the world. In addition, there would be massive ozone depletion, allowing enhanced ultraviolet radiation. More people could die in the noncombatant countries than in those where the bombs were dropped, because of these indirect effects.”

Nuclear Winter is a hypothesis and not a guarantee. Every time scientists predict the terrible outcomes of something on the atmosphere, they have been wrong. Reference: the Kuwait oil field fires in the 90s, which they doomsday predicted and guess what? Localized effects, which didn't spread globally and were FAR, far less dramatic than predicted.

There is a ton of debate on this and the science is not even close to being settled. Fear mongers are still predicting doomsday, more level headed scientists predict a slight cooling or - if the bombs go off in autumn or winter - no effect at all.
39.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 11:20
39.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 11:20
Nov 21, 2023, 11:20
 
Nuclear winter is an hypothesis not an absolute certitude (stratospheric winds, ozone depletion cooling the air and so strengthening the winds of the polar vortex, influencing winds all the way down to the lowest atmosphere layer, cleansing black rain, etc) as is contending nuclear summer.

One year or two of failing crops would kill millions even with careful rationing but not necessarily everyone everywhere.
Not an extinction level event per se.
Avatar 58799
38.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 10:53
38.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 10:53
Nov 21, 2023, 10:53
 
WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 10:40:
Survive ? Why not ?
For example, no one is nukeing the whole amazon area, etc.
Depending on the scale, many, or some, or the few, or the very lucky (?) will survive.

Even in the USA territory, the intelligent and well prepared can make their own luck, to the bewilderment of the clueless.
survive? WHY?
Nuclear Winter doesn't care unless you're talking about a totally different "amazon area" or "USA territory" that's not on Earth.
https://climate.envsci.rutgers.edu/pdf/WiresClimateChangeNW.pdf
“Smoke from the fires started by nuclear weapons, especially the black, sooty smoke from cities and industrial facilities, would be heated by the Sun, lofted into the upper stratosphere, and spread globally, lasting for years. The resulting cool, dark, dry conditions at Earth’s surface would prevent crop growth for at least one growing season, resulting in mass starvation over most of the world. In addition, there would be massive ozone depletion, allowing enhanced ultraviolet radiation. More people could die in the noncombatant countries than in those where the bombs were dropped, because of these indirect effects.”
"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
Avatar 58135
37.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 10:40
37.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 10:40
Nov 21, 2023, 10:40
 
VaranDragon wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 04:40:
Anyone who thinks that they would survive and thrive after a nuclear World War 3 is completely off their rocker, sorry BoP but there it is. There is a reason why the US\Soveit\Russian nuclear arsenal is called a nuclear deterrent. I suggest you google it..
Survive ? Why not ?
For example, no one is nukeing the whole amazon area, etc.
Depending on the scale, many, or some, or the few, or the very lucky (?) will survive.

Even in the USA territory, the intelligent and well prepared can make their own luck, to the bewilderment of the clueless.
Avatar 58799
36.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 09:49
36.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 09:49
Nov 21, 2023, 09:49
 
VaranDragon wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 04:40:
Anyone who thinks that they would survive and thrive after a nuclear World War 3 is completely off their rocker, sorry BoP but there it is. There is a reason why the US\Soveit\Russian nuclear arsenal is called a nuclear deterrent. I suggest you google it..

I am well aware what MAD is. Maybe you weren't alive during the Cold War. I certainly was and remember the nuclear attack drills vividly.

However as I said:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 21:14:
But, on a more practical level, a nuclear attack is so far down my list of worries that I might as well plan for Christmas a decade from now.

Why did I state that? Because the statistical likelihood of it happening are minuscule.

As Tact pointed out, there would definitely be survivors because a nuclear global holocaust is even less likely than a nuclear exchange in the first place. You brought up Russia. Given their, ahem, "performance" in Ukraine, I doubt Russia has the functioning arsenal to even commit to a MAD level event. But it just takes one, right? Well, seeing the grift and corruption in Russia goes from the top to the bottom, the odds of them firing one ICBM that doesn't blow up on launch or blow up shortly after launch is also extremely low. Putin, as much of a nutjob as he is, also knows that not only would the US wipe the floor with Russia but China would join in as well. There is, of course, nothing stopping the rest of NATO from joining in on leveling Russia.

It is definitely not in China's interest for Russia to start lobbing nukes. China is currently holding Russia's leash because Russia needs China much, much more than China needs Russia.Sure, Russia gives China cheap-ish petroleum but China is smart enough to know it can go to any number of global exporters to acquire crude.

So surviving an attack becomes a thought exercise, in my opinion, due to its extremely low probability of occurring.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
35.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 09:26
35.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 09:26
Nov 21, 2023, 09:26
 
Prez wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 08:59:
Acleacius wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 08:27:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 00:00:
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 23:34:
All that's left is trying to decide if I would rather be brained by BoP or Tact.

Give you my word, Prez. If it's me, you'll get a quick, clean .308 through the skull.
Wait, how the hell did Prez become the Zombie in this scenario?
Please tell me this apocalypse is gonna be like the Beach Resort in Dead Island.
Come for the sun, the fun, the parties, the food and stay for the brains! Zombie

I'm going to be patient zero. I have gotten a concoction of virus vaccines, blood thinners, carbon monoxide, and Pepsi. Any doctor will tell you that's how the zombie apocalypse starts.
Milla is that you?! Highfive
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
Avatar 1858
34.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 08:59
Prez
 
34.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 08:59
Nov 21, 2023, 08:59
 Prez
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 08:27:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 00:00:
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 23:34:
All that's left is trying to decide if I would rather be brained by BoP or Tact.

Give you my word, Prez. If it's me, you'll get a quick, clean .308 through the skull.
Wait, how the hell did Prez become the Zombie in this scenario?
Please tell me this apocalypse is gonna be like the Beach Resort in Dead Island.
Come for the sun, the fun, the parties, the food and stay for the brains! Zombie

I'm going to be patient zero. I have gotten a concoction of virus vaccines, blood thinners, carbon monoxide, and Pepsi. Any doctor will tell you that's how the zombie apocalypse starts.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
33.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 08:28
33.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 08:28
Nov 21, 2023, 08:28
 
The ARChive of Contemporary Music doesn’t have any 8-tracks. Disappointed
"I expect death to be nothingness and by removing from me all possible fears of death, I am thankful to atheism." Isaac Asimov
Avatar 58135
32.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 08:27
32.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 08:27
Nov 21, 2023, 08:27
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 00:00:
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 23:34:
All that's left is trying to decide if I would rather be brained by BoP or Tact.

Give you my word, Prez. If it's me, you'll get a quick, clean .308 through the skull.
Wait, how the hell did Prez become the Zombie in this scenario?
Please tell me this apocalypse is gonna be like the Beach Resort in Dead Island.
Come for the sun, the fun, the parties, the food and stay for the brains! Zombie
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
Avatar 1858
31.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 07:29
31.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 07:29
Nov 21, 2023, 07:29
 
VaranDragon wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 04:40:
Anyone who thinks that they would survive and thrive after a nuclear World War 3 is completely off their rocker, sorry BoP but there it is. There is a reason why the US\Soveit\Russian nuclear arsenal is called a nuclear deterrent. I suggest you google it..
There would likely be survivors, unless both sides unleash all their bombs and carpet the world. Which is as unlikely as it happening at all. I'm sure BoP is familiar with the idea of MAD. You honestly think that will keep it from happening? All it takes is one nut job and a bunch of idiots following him. Trump wanted to use nukes. I guarantee you Putin wants to, but figures the US wouldn't let that pass.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
30.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 04:40
30.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 04:40
Nov 21, 2023, 04:40
 
Anyone who thinks that they would survive and thrive after a nuclear World War 3 is completely off their rocker, sorry BoP but there it is. There is a reason why the US\Soveit\Russian nuclear arsenal is called a nuclear deterrent. I suggest you google it..
Avatar 58327
29.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 01:48
29.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 01:48
Nov 21, 2023, 01:48
 
Heh, we're just different kinds of zombies.
Rest well, Prez.
Avatar 58799
28.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 01:03
Prez
 
28.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 01:03
Nov 21, 2023, 01:03
 Prez
 
WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 21, 2023, 00:11:
All recent developments and videos point to this:

Zombies will not shamble but twerk, will not eat brains, but ass.
Don't shoot their craniums, nothing there, shooting their cellphones will let them aimless.
Are you sure you are not mistaking zombies for modern day Americans?
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
27.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 00:11
27.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 00:11
Nov 21, 2023, 00:11
 
All recent developments and videos point to this:

Zombies will not shamble but twerk, will not eat brains, but ass.
Don't shoot their craniums, nothing there, shooting their cellphones will let them aimless.
Avatar 58799
26.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 21, 2023, 00:00
26.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 21, 2023, 00:00
Nov 21, 2023, 00:00
 
Prez wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 23:34:
All that's left is trying to decide if I would rather be brained by BoP or Tact.

Give you my word, Prez. If it's me, you'll get a quick, clean .308 through the skull.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
25.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 20, 2023, 23:34
Prez
 
25.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 20, 2023, 23:34
Nov 20, 2023, 23:34
 Prez
 
It's not going to be nukes - everyone knows what will end society as we know it is the coming zombie apocalypse, duh. Unlike most people who assume they will be one of the survivors, I on the other hand know I will be one of the shambling undead. All that's left is trying to decide if I would rather be brained by BoP or Tact.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Avatar 17185
24.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 20, 2023, 22:06
24.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 20, 2023, 22:06
Nov 20, 2023, 22:06
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 21:32:
You are far more hardy than I am, BoP -- no surprise there. Does a town of 120k count as a major urban area in this scenario? I am a complete softie. Not only do I not know how to hunt, or farm, I barely know how to cook. I simply do not have the skills to survive for long in a post-apocalyptic world. Which is fine. My mindset is more along the lines of there being a difference between living and surviving. I have no interest in surviving.

I think hardiness is a mindset, to be honest. My dad is a lot like you. He is a creature of comfort above all things. As is no surprise, he and I rarely see eye to eye. Skillsets can be learned at any age. I didn't learn how to really grow crops as a serious effort until a little more than a decade ago. But, of course, that assumes one wants to learn those skillsets. If not, so be it.

I think only huge population centers like Miami, Los Angeles, New York, and so forth would be targets if there was nothing else of tactical importance around it. Otherwise, it is a waste of ordnance.

As for surviving vs living, one can build to living from surviving. What constitutes "living" is highly subjective, of course. As long as I am enjoying myself, I count that as "living" because I am finding meaning and purpose in my time and effort.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
23.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 20, 2023, 21:32
23.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 20, 2023, 21:32
Nov 20, 2023, 21:32
 
You are far more hardy than I am, BoP -- no surprise there. Does a town of 120k count as a major urban area in this scenario? I am a complete softie. Not only do I not know how to hunt, or farm, I barely know how to cook. I simply do not have the skills to survive for long in a post-apocalyptic world. Which is fine. My mindset is more along the lines of there being a difference between living and surviving. I have no interest in surviving.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
22.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 20, 2023, 21:22
22.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 20, 2023, 21:22
Nov 20, 2023, 21:22
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 21:14:
Look up medi-honey for those that don't believe me.
Or just watch "The Equalizer"...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
21.
 
Re: OotB: Mid
Nov 20, 2023, 21:14
21.
Re: OotB: Mid Nov 20, 2023, 21:14
Nov 20, 2023, 21:14
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 20, 2023, 19:59:
If the nukes flew tomorrow, would you want to be among the survivors?

Hell. Yes. If only because I am ornery. I'm not going to roll over and die just because life gets a little harder. The idea of just giving up galls me to the core in a way that I cannot fully articulate. Actually, in that scenario, life would get a little easier in some regards. No more worries about bills, employment, any sort of mortgage, or if I need to shave that day. My focuses orientate to security, food production, energy production, water production, and shelter. No more "societal obligation" bullshit. Now medicine would be more difficult but there are some plants you can grow to help with that (as in actual medicinal plants, not magic woo like goji berries or saw palmetto). Oh, yeah, reminds me that I need to make plans for an apiary or two. Believe it or not, honey is one of the best antibacterial salves you can put on a burn or cut. Look up medi-honey for those that don't believe me. They used that on me after my last surgery and it worked far better than Neosporin or Bacatracin did. I healed more quickly and with noticeably less scarring.

I also do not live in a major urban environment nor anywhere close to one that would be considered of tactical value. Closest to me, right now, is Houston due to its port. The winds rarely blow up from Houston this way and all the nuclear fallout range maps put me in the safe zone. My future homestead is waaaaaay the Hell and gone from any targets of value to a foreign aggressor. Myself and my family would be safe there.

But, on a more practical level, a nuclear attack is so far down my list of worries that I might as well plan for Christmas a decade from now. It's not outside threats that concern me.

"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
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