Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 11:00:
Oh, forgot to mention, best surprise to date: "Slumdog Millionaire" -- the 2008 winner. A film I almost certainly would not have seen without the task I set myself to. I thought it was a fantastic film which was a complete surprise.

Danny Boyle is an amazing director. I don't think that he's made a bad film yet.

Oh, forgot to mention, best surprise to date: "Slumdog Millionaire" -- the 2008 winner. A film I almost certainly would not have seen without the task I set myself to. I thought it was a fantastic film which was a complete surprise.

Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 09:44:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:48:
How many movies did you run out and go see solely because they won an Academy Award? How many TV shows did you suddenly start watching solely because they won a Peabody Award? The same can be asked about the Grammys, the Nebulas, and so forth.

Actually, I have purposely watched a few dozen films simply because they won the Best Film Oscar. I am trying to see all of them made after 1950. Some of them were nice surprises, some were exactly what I expected, others truly sucked. For instance, "The Artist" easily the worse Best Film Oscar winner I have seen, honorable mention to "Million Dollar Baby". I need to get back on that horse, I have fallen behind in the last few years. I have not seen "Parasite". I would very much like to see "CODA", but I'll be damned if I will give Apple my money.

I would recommend "Parasite" but it really isn't the best Asian cinema has to offer. I'm not even sure if it was the best South Korean film made that year, but my memory kind of sucks. It was nice to see them finally get recognition though, as they had been virtually ignored by American cinephiles for decades. If anything, I would say 'Parasite' is a good litmus test as to whether Asian cinema is for you. If you at least liked it, then I would heartily recommend you seek out more. If you thought it was dumb or just didn't get it, then it probably isn't. That's only a guess on my part though.

VaranDragon wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 09:37:

Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:06:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 06:57:
Nah, Starfield sold millions based on the inertia of now bashed expectations.

As more and more prospective buyers hear of the game shortcomings, and delay or wait for future discounted sales, the initial impetus falters, and projected profits are falling sharply below what MS and Bethesda may have counted on.

Modders may relieve somewhat the damage, but never all.
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone. Are people actually thinking that this is different from any Bethesda release? They have been very consistent in their pattern since Fallout 3. They release a buggy or otherwise broken game. It sells millions. People complain it's garbage. It continues to sell. Modders fix it. It's lauded as a supreme achievement. People make videos how it isn't as good as you think it is, or that it is wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle. It ends up being a MASSIVE success. In 8 -10 years the cycle begins anew. (Somewhere in there Todd Howard lied his ass off). The one exception is Fallout 76. Modders couldn't fix that because it's a live service. Bethesda had to do it themselves - I'm actually impressed that they had it in them. They never had to do that before. All that is different is that the echo chamber is much louder now - everything gets 10 times the coverage that it did back when Fallout 3 released.

There is a significant difference here. Previous Bethesda games while buggy, and with some questionable design decisions, were very engaging and immersive right from the get go Vanilla flavored version. They could be called many things but never bland.

No offense but I heard the exact same thing for their previous 3 releases. What is old is new again.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:48:
How many movies did you run out and go see solely because they won an Academy Award? How many TV shows did you suddenly start watching solely because they won a Peabody Award? The same can be asked about the Grammys, the Nebulas, and so forth.

Actually, I have purposely watched a few dozen films simply because they won the Best Film Oscar. I am trying to see all of them made after 1950. Some of them were nice surprises, some were exactly what I expected, others truly sucked. For instance, "The Artist" easily the worse Best Film Oscar winner I have seen, honorable mention to "Million Dollar Baby". I need to get back on that horse, I have fallen behind in the last few years. I have not seen "Parasite". I would very much like to see "CODA", but I'll be damned if I will give Apple my money.

Prez wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:06:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 06:57:
Nah, Starfield sold millions based on the inertia of now bashed expectations.

As more and more prospective buyers hear of the game shortcomings, and delay or wait for future discounted sales, the initial impetus falters, and projected profits are falling sharply below what MS and Bethesda may have counted on.

Modders may relieve somewhat the damage, but never all.
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone. Are people actually thinking that this is different from any Bethesda release? They have been very consistent in their pattern since Fallout 3. They release a buggy or otherwise broken game. It sells millions. People complain it's garbage. It continues to sell. Modders fix it. It's lauded as a supreme achievement. People make videos how it isn't as good as you think it is, or that it is wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle. It ends up being a MASSIVE success. In 8 -10 years the cycle begins anew. (Somewhere in there Todd Howard lied his ass off). The one exception is Fallout 76. Modders couldn't fix that because it's a live service. Bethesda had to do it themselves - I'm actually impressed that they had it in them. They never had to do that before. All that is different is that the echo chamber is much louder now - everything gets 10 times the coverage that it did back when Fallout 3 released.

There is a significant difference here. Previous Bethesda games while buggy, and with some questionable design decisions, were very engaging and immersive right from the get go Vanilla flavored version. They could be called many things but never bland.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:53:
*runs up to Prez with a paper bag*

I knew you'd have my back

Sorry, couldn't resist

It's okay - I look at it as your version of a dad joke. I tell those too. The reaction from people who are tired of hearing the same joke is what keeps it funny.

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2023, 09:20.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 08:48:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 06:57:
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

Maybe, but they'll be fractional at best.

How many movies did you run out and go see solely because they won an Academy Award? How many TV shows did you suddenly start watching solely because they won a Peabody Award? The same can be asked about the Grammys, the Nebulas, and so forth.

I watched "Parasite" based on its 'Best Picture' win. That's it.

*runs up to Prez with a paper bag*
-----
Every year I used to make a list of awarded movies and tried to see them all.
Some golden stinkers there though.
------
Steam BG3, last 30 days reviews: 24,711 - 96%
Ditto CP 2077: 11,770 - 92%
Starfire: 6,711 - 48%. Quantity of reviewers falls markedly every day.
In a loading screen no one can hear your scream.

Sorry, couldn't resist

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2023, 09:15.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 06:57:
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

Maybe, but they'll be fractional at best.

How many movies did you run out and go see solely because they won an Academy Award? How many TV shows did you suddenly start watching solely because they won a Peabody Award? The same can be asked about the Grammys, the Nebulas, and so forth.

I'm not really sick of it anymore - I think I just grudgingly accept it. Things eventually change, but never remotely as fast as gamers think they will. Two things gamers utterly suck at:

1) Predictions
2) Having long memories

Back when Cyberpunk 2077 1.0 released, I was very angry, but no one called me out because everyone was angry. Today, I am still angry at the unmitigated gall and disdain for fans that CDPR displayed, but now I'm treated like an unhinged loon and an outlier. And if one more person tells me that it's just like the "No Man's Sky" redemption I probably am going to be sick.

Bodolza wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 16:20:
I haven't played Starfield, but I watched the most recent Clueless Gamer video on it, and I was pretty surprised at how janky it looked. Companies usually sponsor Clueless Gamer, so they try to make them look their best, but the game was stuttery, looked bad, and even the short clips they showed had annoying things, like a character constantly walking between you and the person you were talking to. I've heard the story is pretty uninteresting as well.

Yeah, they were playing the latest version of it. That is normal in the game and is not even remotely on their patching list. That means that the game is acting and working like it is by design and the Devs or whoever is in charge of the post launch is happy with everything wrong with the game. Including VASCO in the F'in floor. F Bethesda man. So sick of this shit.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Nov 15, 2023, 06:57:
Nah, Starfield sold millions based on the inertia of now bashed expectations.

As more and more prospective buyers hear of the game shortcomings, and delay or wait for future discounted sales, the initial impetus falters, and projected profits are falling sharply below what MS and Bethesda may have counted on.

Modders may relieve somewhat the damage, but never all.
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone. Are people actually thinking that this is different from any Bethesda release? They have been very consistent in their pattern since Fallout 3. They release a buggy or otherwise broken game. It sells millions. People complain it's garbage. It continues to sell. Modders fix it. It's lauded as a supreme achievement. People make videos how it isn't as good as you think it is, or that it is wide as an ocean but shallow as a puddle. It ends up being a MASSIVE success. In 8 -10 years the cycle begins anew. (Somewhere in there Todd Howard lied his ass off). The one exception is Fallout 76. Modders couldn't fix that because it's a live service. Bethesda had to do it themselves - I'm actually impressed that they had it in them. They never had to do that before. All that is different is that the echo chamber is much louder now - everything gets 10 times the coverage that it did back when Fallout 3 released.

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2023, 08:26.

Nah, Starfield sold millions based on the inertia of now bashed expectations.

As more and more prospective buyers hear of the game shortcomings, and delay or wait for future discounted sales, the initial impetus falters, and projected profits are falling sharply below what MS and Bethesda may have counted on.

Modders may relieve somewhat the damage, but never all.
And recognized awards *will* bring sales to any game (or movies, music, books, etc).

Starfield is Bethesda's most bland game yet. Their games always relied on their worldbuilding and atmosphere, and somewhat on their open-ended systems to immerse you in the game and keep you coming back for more.

I'm sure modders will probably make it the game it was supposed to be, a few years down the line, but for now I hope Bethesda takes a lesson from this for their next Elder Scrolls game.

chickenboo wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 17:50:
This has to sting for Microsoft

Microsoft is just fine, they recently hit a record high stock price...

Prez wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 21:31:

jdreyer wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 15:46:

Prez wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 11:59:
Starfield wasn't "left out in the cold" any more than any of the other games that got passed over for awards. I'm still wondering why anyone still cares about award shows any more but to each his own.

I think there are expectations for Bethesda releases. The Game Awards didn't exist back in 2011, but at the VGAs, Skyrim got 4 nominations with 3 wins including GOTY, for example.

Fair enough. But consider:
The game made TONS of money. Last I heard it had broken 10 million sales - I assume it's higher now. If you are one of the bean counters who decides what projects get made and what projects don't, are you more concerned with how many awards a game has won, or how much money it made? It's such an obvious answer that it's almost insulting that I even asked the question. Cases like Baldur's Gate 3 are exceedingly rare. It both made a lot of money AND cleaned up in the awards department. Every year, generally one or two games can achieve that. Out of hundreds of games that are released every year. Artistic accomplishment and recognition are not what determines the direction of our (or really any) medium any more. So I can't bring myself to be interested in awards.

Money talks, no doubt about that, but ordinarily Bethesda should be wary of how the general reaction to Starfield will impact sales of their next tentpole release. It's not unheard of for a dud product to sell well based on the popularity of previous products, but damage the manufacturer's reputation to the point where future products don't see the same brand loyalty.

However, "ordinarily" won't apply to The Elderscrolls 6 or Fallout 5. Either of those games will sell humungous numbers, so I think Bethesda will be just fine.

jdreyer wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 15:46:

Prez wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 11:59:
Starfield wasn't "left out in the cold" any more than any of the other games that got passed over for awards. I'm still wondering why anyone still cares about award shows any more but to each his own.

I think there are expectations for Bethesda releases. The Game Awards didn't exist back in 2011, but at the VGAs, Skyrim got 4 nominations with 3 wins including GOTY, for example.

Fair enough. But consider:
The game made TONS of money. Last I heard it had broken 10 million sales - I assume it's higher now. If you are one of the bean counters who decides what projects get made and what projects don't, are you more concerned with how many awards a game has won, or how much money it made? It's such an obvious answer that it's almost insulting that I even asked the question. Cases like Baldur's Gate 3 are exceedingly rare. It both made a lot of money AND cleaned up in the awards department. Every year, generally one or two games can achieve that. Out of hundreds of games that are released every year. Artistic accomplishment and recognition are not what determines the direction of our (or really any) medium any more. So I can't bring myself to be interested in awards.

Silicon Avatar wrote on Nov 14, 2023, 14:40:
I feel like I'll play Starfield a lot more once modders really dig into it.

I thought Skyrim was pretty bland when it launched too. Now I'm actually thinking about playing it again with all the mods that have come out.

Play Enderal, the best free massive total conversion expansion for Skyrim, new world, new lore, and a better game even.

Some will prefer to stay in Skyrim, valuing more those mods, so I post a link with some.
https://www.thegamer.com/skyrim-best-quest-mods-ranked/#the-wheels-of-lull

This has to sting for Microsoft, their headline title finally released to make their Xbox exclusivity plan a reality, and then... it isn't strong enough to get more than one nomination, and on that nomination it is up against BG3 no less.
I haven't played SF either, it looks like Fallout set in space. Missed opportunity for some real immersion. But Bethesda always makes the same game, so I should really stop expecting it to be any more than that.