bhcompy wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 13:59:
Ultimately, it's a question of how to keep a game going while keeping yourself in business. Would people prefer a subscription, paid DLC, or pay2win mechanics in a non-F2P game? Or would they prefer game support is dropped and the dev move on to a new full priced game?

^ this sums it up well. Paradox does release a *lot* of DLC for games like Stellaris, but they also keep updating the base game for free with new mechanics and content. I'd much rather have their DLC model than a battlepass.

mirthy wrote on Oct 19, 2023, 12:11:
Probably sets a bad precedent but I'd pay $ to have those load times fixed!

The load/injection times, and the inability to save mid-mission, are Roguetech's biggest drawbacks.

eRe4s3r wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 16:36:

Midnight wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:16:

RogueSix wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:11:

Midnight wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 23:42:
I have over 1,000 hours in Battletech...

Bruh...

That's a lot for me, okay? I play other games too

With the load and turn times in Roguetech that ain't a surprising number

Probably sets a bad precedent but I'd pay $ to have those load times fixed!

Midnight wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:16:

RogueSix wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:11:

Midnight wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 23:42:
I have over 1,000 hours in Battletech...

Bruh...

That's a lot for me, okay? I play other games too

With the load and turn times in Roguetech that ain't a surprising number

yonder wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 13:03:

Numinar wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 07:33:

Lukiopimp wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 04:16:
F Paradox and their DLC spamming. Prison Architect, Cities Skylines, Battletech, Age of Wonders - all ruined for me because of their awful awful DLC policies. No love making games, just making more money. To me I loathe them just as much as Activision or EA. As soon as any indie game gets gobbled up by Paradox, the game goes down the drain, that is my experience.

I thought the battletech DLC was fine. Mostly because the main game was huge and fully featured, and the DLC gravy. Not the kind of gravy one got at full price on release but sure was ncie on sale. Maybe thats the paradox cancer you are talking abou though.

That's because you actually understand how DLC is supposed to work. DLC is *extra*. DLC is *optional*. DLC funds years and years and years of post-release support. I've never understood how people don't understand this and the blind, uninformed vitriolic hatred of Paradox for their DLC policies.

1)Is the base game complete? Yes
2)Is the DLC perpetually on sale? Yes (generally speaking)
3)Does Paradox routinely sell packages of DLC, sometimes including the base game, at the initial release price? Yes. Not every year or anything, but yes.
4)Do Paradox games allow you to play w/ someone who has different portions of the DLC than what you have? Yes.
5)Does Paradox routinely offer Day 1 DLC as a way to pay *LESS* for the game if you don't want certain aspects? Yes. (i.e. you can buy the game for 60 bucks on release if you want certain bells & whistles *OR* you can buy it for 40 bucks and just have unit icons instead of animated soldiers... then you can buy the animated soldiers later for 30 bucks if you want... the option is yours).

Paradox does DLC right.

Do they screw up sometimes? Absolutely. Cuz they do a *LOT* and experimentation means intermittent failure. Sometimes big time failure. But I'll take them every day of the week over virtually every other publisher out there.

What are the options? Either gamers stupidly demand *ALL THE CONTENT* for free, which, well, we're talking gamers here... the most entitled and whiny base out there (aside from maybe Star Wars fans) or you get just the base game and nothing else.

GIve me optional and frequently discounted DLC every day of the week please.

People need to learn to think critically and quit whining about stuff that isn't wrong.

Prison Architect, Cities Skylines... seriously wonderful base games with ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OPTIONAL DLC. See what I mean about the level of entitlement of gamers? People are actually labeling games as "down the drain" because the quality core base game has optional content available. And for this, they get compared to EA and Activision.

Gamers, as a group, disgust me.

Ultimately, it's a question of how to keep a game going while keeping yourself in business. Would people prefer a subscription, paid DLC, or pay2win mechanics in a non-F2P game? Or would they prefer game support is dropped and the dev move on to a new full priced game?

Lukiopimp wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 04:25:

TangoBaker wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:04:
All I want is for them to do something with Crimson Skies. Preferably similar to what they did with Battletech but for the old Fasa tabletop game.

Holy cow HBS has the IP rights? I'd love to see a new Crimson Skies.

Crimson Skies IP rights are 100% owned by Microsoft. No idea why Tango implied otherwise. Why would HBS own the IP to something developed by Zipper Interactive
and Aces Game Studio and published by Microsoft?

Sure... IP changes hands in weird ways, but usually there's *SOME* reason for it to change hands.

Numinar wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 07:33:

Lukiopimp wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 04:16:
F Paradox and their DLC spamming. Prison Architect, Cities Skylines, Battletech, Age of Wonders - all ruined for me because of their awful awful DLC policies. No love making games, just making more money. To me I loathe them just as much as Activision or EA. As soon as any indie game gets gobbled up by Paradox, the game goes down the drain, that is my experience.

I thought the battletech DLC was fine. Mostly because the main game was huge and fully featured, and the DLC gravy. Not the kind of gravy one got at full price on release but sure was ncie on sale. Maybe thats the paradox cancer you are talking abou though.

That's because you actually understand how DLC is supposed to work. DLC is *extra*. DLC is *optional*. DLC funds years and years and years of post-release support. I've never understood how people don't understand this and the blind, uninformed vitriolic hatred of Paradox for their DLC policies.

1)Is the base game complete? Yes
2)Is the DLC perpetually on sale? Yes (generally speaking)
3)Does Paradox routinely sell packages of DLC, sometimes including the base game, at the initial release price? Yes. Not every year or anything, but yes.
4)Do Paradox games allow you to play w/ someone who has different portions of the DLC than what you have? Yes.
5)Does Paradox routinely offer Day 1 DLC as a way to pay *LESS* for the game if you don't want certain aspects? Yes. (i.e. you can buy the game for 60 bucks on release if you want certain bells & whistles *OR* you can buy it for 40 bucks and just have unit icons instead of animated soldiers... then you can buy the animated soldiers later for 30 bucks if you want... the option is yours).

Paradox does DLC right.

Do they screw up sometimes? Absolutely. Cuz they do a *LOT* and experimentation means intermittent failure. Sometimes big time failure. But I'll take them every day of the week over virtually every other publisher out there.

What are the options? Either gamers stupidly demand *ALL THE CONTENT* for free, which, well, we're talking gamers here... the most entitled and whiny base out there (aside from maybe Star Wars fans) or you get just the base game and nothing else.

GIve me optional and frequently discounted DLC every day of the week please.

People need to learn to think critically and quit whining about stuff that isn't wrong.

Prison Architect, Cities Skylines... seriously wonderful base games with ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OPTIONAL DLC. See what I mean about the level of entitlement of gamers? People are actually labeling games as "down the drain" because the quality core base game has optional content available. And for this, they get compared to EA and Activision.

Gamers, as a group, disgust me.

It's weird to me that people thought that Battletech was just riddled with mediocre DLC. It had 3 of them, and 2 of them added significant features (biomes and popular mechs). The third was just okay. It certainly didn't feel like Hearts of Iron or Crusader Kings in that regard.

I thought it was fine as well. It also happened before Paradox...? Or do I remember that incorrectly?

Probably too many cooks in the kitchen.

Lukiopimp wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 04:16:
F Paradox and their DLC spamming. Prison Architect, Cities Skylines, Battletech, Age of Wonders - all ruined for me because of their awful awful DLC policies. No love making games, just making more money. To me I loathe them just as much as Activision or EA. As soon as any indie game gets gobbled up by Paradox, the game goes down the drain, that is my experience.

I thought the battletech DLC was fine. Mostly because the main game was huge and fully featured, and the DLC gravy. Not the kind of gravy one got at full price on release but sure was ncie on sale. Maybe thats the paradox cancer you are talking abou though.

I was so excited for lamplighters but ugggh... uninstalled before I got out of the tutorial. Was not captivating at all. Maybe theres a great game in there, I'll try in a few years and love it then if so. It's happened before! Battletech 2 seems like a pipe dream, and until lamplighters I trusted these guys with a original IP take on the matter if they couldn't get hte license but they'll have to earn that back.
Gamedev is fucking hard. Projects fail. Not having a go or anything but in this economy you have to earn my money/hard disc space. All the best to them. Battletech is genius I hope they get inspired again to put that genius to work on anything at all.

TangoBaker wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:04:
All I want is for them to do something with Crimson Skies. Preferably similar to what they did with Battletech but for the old Fasa tabletop game.

Holy cow HBS has the IP rights? I'd love to see a new Crimson Skies.

F Paradox and their DLC spamming. Prison Architect, Cities Skylines, Battletech, Age of Wonders - all ruined for me because of their awful awful DLC policies. No love making games, just making more money. To me I loathe them just as much as Activision or EA. As soon as any indie game gets gobbled up by Paradox, the game goes down the drain, that is my experience.

mirthy wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 02:23:
Shame. I hope HBS survives.
Mebe instead of noire Lamplighters should've been a Mechwarrior/Battletech themed Lamplighters. There are no games (afaik) where you're playing the Mechwarrior instead of just stompy robots. That would've been a novel niche to exploit. Though, mebe too small a niche??

I doubt Battletech fans are a small niche and a competent Battletech Mechwarrior game would have been novel and fresh. Now 1930s fans are however an extremely small niche as we can see and that setting is anything but fresh or novel! ;p Baffling what they thought here to begin with. The good tactical games like TROUBLESHOOTER: Abandoned Children have a massive audience, so this ain't a small niche.

Battletech is one of my favorite games. The modding scene alone is amazing and has improved the gameplay and longevity of that game like 1000%

Can't believe that they didn't pick up the rights to do Battletech2 Clans or something, instead of making a game that was destined to be a flop, right out of the gate.

I would have bought the game but with Paradox and its hilariously aggressive DLC-heavy game publishing strategy behind it, I refused to buy. I hope HBS can find a better publisher to work with and I will gladly buy their games again.

Shame. I hope HBS survives.
Mebe instead of noire Lamplighters should've been a Mechwarrior/Battletech themed Lamplighters. There are no games (afaik) where you're playing the Mechwarrior instead of just stompy robots. That would've been a novel niche to exploit. Though, mebe too small a niche??

Shock wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 21:20:

Primalchrome wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 21:12:
HBS Battletech II Kickstarter. 10/10, would back again.

100% this. Unfortunately, from what I know of Weisman, my guess is Paradox was trying to push him to do Battletech 2 and he didn't want to.

EDIT: Paradox retains ownership of the Battletech game so that suggests Battletech 2 would come from them not HBS

According to what's been discussed prior to today, Paradox doesn't have the rights to make a sequel. HBS pitched Battletech 2 and Paradox declined because the IP licensing was not worth it(so Lamplighters was born). If that's the case, Paradox may have the rights to the original game, but that doesn't mean HBS couldn't get the rights to make a sequel (spiritual as it may be, the naming would still be Battletech oriented)

RogueSix wrote on Oct 18, 2023, 00:11:

Midnight wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 23:42:
I have over 1,000 hours in Battletech...

Bruh...

That's a lot for me, okay? I play other games too

Midnight wrote on Oct 17, 2023, 23:42:
I have over 1,000 hours in Battletech...

Bruh...