WannaLogAlready wrote on Sep 19, 2023, 03:02:
Really Razumen,
A little surprised to have to explain this:

There are some 2,000,000 of elementary teachers in the USA, and 1, 500,000 of high school ones, etc. while there are only 40,000 diocesan and religious-order priests, etc.

When a teacher is denounced the whole community swoops down.

While clergy is historically protected by the churchs as in the arrmy, and shuffled to other parishes, pressure put on the faithful to silence them, etc.
Priests can abuse dozens of children for decades.

(The churchs also have hidden parents or family abuses to evade scandals forcefully.
I'm sure you have read of recent come clean debacles).

So the resulting percentage of predators and victims is massively greater in the religious group, ok?

That's not at all how percentages work buddy. The sheer fact that there's more educators AND that the percentage in that are is so much higher means the exact opposite of what you claim. 🤣

You're also delusional if you don't think that people in other sectors don't also have likeminded friends that cover for them.

Let's cross in that point too.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Sep 19, 2023, 09:16:
Another God good point, RE9

Forgot one thing.
EVERYONE* goes to school, not everyone goes to cult indoctrination facilities.


*you know what I mean, it ain't 100% but it's more than churchgoers.

Another God good point, RE9

WannaLogAlready wrote on Sep 19, 2023, 03:02:
Really Razumen,
A little surprised to have to explain this:

There are some 2,000,000 of elementary teachers in the USA, and 1, 500,000 of high school ones, etc. while there are only 40,000 diocesan and religious-order priests, etc.

When a teacher is denounced the whole community swoops down.

While clergy is historically protected by the churchs as in the arrmy, and shuffled to other parishes, pressure put on the faithful to silence them, etc.
Priests can abuse dozens of children for decades.

(The churchs also have hidden parents or family abuses to evade scandals forcefully.
I'm sure you have read of recent come clean debacles).

So the resulting percentage of predators and victims is massively greater in the religious group, ok?

Not to mention exposure.
You spend many more days during the week with a teacher than you do with a church cult employee.

Really Razumen,
A little surprised to have to explain this:

There are some 2,000,000 of elementary teachers in the USA, and 1, 500,000 of high school ones, etc. while there are only 40,000 diocesan and religious-order priests, etc.

When a teacher is denounced the whole community swoops down.

While clergy is historically protected by the churchs as in the arrmy, and shuffled to other parishes, pressure put on the faithful to silence them, etc.
Priests can abuse dozens of children for decades.

(The churchs also have hidden parents or family abuses to evade scandals forcefully.
I'm sure you have read of recent come clean debacles).

So the resulting percentage of predators and victims is massively greater in the religious group, ok?

WannaLogAlready wrote on Sep 18, 2023, 07:53:

Hardline Mike wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 19:42:

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:

Now we have people writing think pieces of the accepting of MAPs (go google that one) and drag queen story time at your local elementary school. Not to mention TV shows that promote child sexualization (Netflix's Cuties, or "Big Mouth" are good examples).

It's odd that you conflate drag queen story time with pedophilia when it's men who dress as men who are always raping kids.

A glaring truth.

And I imagine his respected cassock wearing clergymen are being caught left and right among the worst predators.

But I doubt he can countenance realities.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Abusers-occupation-Occupation-n_tbl4_237962292

Err, you realize that religion is WAY down on the list your cited? Offenders are way more likely to be in other public, private or volunteer institutions, ESPECIALLY education.

Like, I get if you don't like religion, but the meme that they're the majority of offenders in this regard is just plain false.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 20:25:

Prez wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 11:56:
Ah, BoP. Your usual upbeat, optimistic self I see. 😁

What can I say? I'm a realist and a pragmatist.

As am I. I'm just not so... gloomy.

Hardline Mike wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 19:42:

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:

Now we have people writing think pieces of the accepting of MAPs (go google that one) and drag queen story time at your local elementary school. Not to mention TV shows that promote child sexualization (Netflix's Cuties, or "Big Mouth" are good examples).

It's odd that you conflate drag queen story time with pedophilia when it's men who dress as men who are always raping kids.

A glaring truth.

And I imagine his respected cassock wearing clergymen are being caught left and right among the worst predators.

But I doubt he can countenance realities.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Abusers-occupation-Occupation-n_tbl4_237962292

Prez wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 11:56:
Ah, BoP. Your usual upbeat, optimistic self I see. 😁

What can I say? I'm a realist and a pragmatist.

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:

Now we have people writing think pieces of the accepting of MAPs (go google that one) and drag queen story time at your local elementary school. Not to mention TV shows that promote child sexualization (Netflix's Cuties, or "Big Mouth" are good examples).

It's odd that you conflate drag queen story time with pedophilia when it's men who dress as men who are always raping kids.

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:
People said 4 decades ago "what's wrong with letting people marry the same gender?" And after decades of hemming and hawing about it, they did it. The naysayers warned it was a slippery slope. Said if you extend it this far, then the next goalpost becomes the "well what's wrong with this then?" point. Guess what?

And before that women had the nerve to want to vote, and before that black people wanted to not be slaves... We have to put a stop to this!!!

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:
I'm close to 50 and have seen this sort of thing happen since the 80s. The constant sliding of that window until the window is fully open.

You know what they say about opening windows. Be careful, you might accidentally let in fresh air.

Armengar wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 12:52:
I dislike the word woke.Too many people jump on using it when in reality most people have zero idea the daily intolerance and bigotry that exists to gay people. It isnt woke to want to be left alone in society and be afforded basic courtesies such as not being screamed at in a public park.

The hatred me and my wife have put up with over the years is staggering. From hotels refusing to let us stay (after arriving), 2+2 families crossing the street (glaring) because we were holding hands, right down to being spat on by hulking shaven headed blokes for being "filthy godless dykes". We've even had our children chided by randoms because two gay people obviously cant be good parents given them a "wholesome family" (whatever that might mean)

If a website removes bigotted ideas and further promotion of such rubbish then it gets my vote. Its not "woke", it is simply getting on with the fact that there is no real problem of a girl loving another girl etc. I find it odd that people would defend such a move. Does the fact that a website considers removing this mod bother you so much? What line would you draw?

A long beautiful life for your family and my best wishes and admiration for your courage in troublesome times.

I believe the old dinosaurs in politics are near their end, and better social outlooks will prevail.

I dislike the word woke.Too many people jump on using it when in reality most people have zero idea the daily intolerance and bigotry that exists to gay people. It isnt woke to want to be left alone in society and be afforded basic courtesies such as not being screamed at in a public park.

The hatred me and my wife have put up with over the years is staggering. From hotels refusing to let us stay (after arriving), 2+2 families crossing the street (glaring) because we were holding hands, right down to being spat on by hulking shaven headed blokes for being "filthy godless dykes". We've even had our children chided by randoms because two gay people obviously cant be good parents given them a "wholesome family" (whatever that might mean)

If a website removes bigotted ideas and further promotion of such rubbish then it gets my vote. Its not "woke", it is simply getting on with the fact that there is no real problem of a girl loving another girl etc. I find it odd that people would defend such a move. Does the fact that a website considers removing this mod bother you so much? What line would you draw?

If you're getting turned on by Big Mouth, holy fuck

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:
The constant sliding of that window until the window is fully open.

And the opening of said window systematically resulting in harm reduction.

Altho the opposite did hurt people and continues to do so.

Why ignore that crucial fact?

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:
Now we have people writing think pieces of the accepting of MAPs (go google that one) ( ... ) Not to mention TV shows that promote child sexualization (Netflix's Cuties, or "Big Mouth" are good examples).

So you're saying that people can't understand the difference between a change that results in less harm and a change that would result in more harm and thus would not be allowed because the goal has always been harm reduction? Got it.

The "think of the children" logical fallacy argument has been around for centuries.

If people wants to protect children from the current harm they go through, there are a myriad of real, justified and effective ways to do it, and shouting the latest hateful bigot dogwhistle buzzwords while raving about Jones/Tsoukalos level nonsense ain't one of them.

This comment was edited on Sep 17, 2023, 17:40.

Ah, BoP. Your usual upbeat, optimistic self I see. 😁

Yes, it´s a scalding hot potato, BoP, and it won´t get better with the paid crazies interfering.

Back to the cursed mod:
the paranoid take over conspiracy by the left in a country that doesn´t have a left at all is beyond parody.

The EU has right and left parties co governing side by side and they are leagues more advanced in social development, a shame they are so woke and living better lives.

Icewind wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 02:56:
...TV shows that promote child sexualization (Netflix's Cuties, or "Big Mouth" are good examples)...

...what? I have watched every episode of Big Mouth and at no point does that show promote child sexualization. It does, however, cover the often (in hindsight) hilarious awkwardness that comes with human sexuality awakening during puberty and how awful and clumsy that is when you're experiencing it for the first time.

/-=-\

WannaLogAlready wrote on Sep 17, 2023, 03:04:
Whoa, now please don't go anarcho-hermit on me BoP

I get you: police is a showcase of mostly untouchable militarized corruption-mafia-thugs trigger happy morons.
Not all, nor the majority.
The judicial system has problems too but not as dangerous or far gone.

Both are indispensable, so reform, correct, cleaning the rotten ones is the goal, not wholesale tear down and defenestration, or risk throwing babies with the water.

Well, I'm already mostly a hermit so....

Is every cop bad? Statistically speaking, no. However here's the problem. You as an individual don't know whom you are going to get when you run in to one because the alleged "good" ones cover for the bad ones. This makes them complicit in the actions of the bad cops. Then you also have the problem of unchecked abuse of authority. Here's an example:

I have spoken of my Lightning in the past here. She's low, loud, and her windows are tinted very dark. All three are legal within the state of Texas. There's a good chance that when I am driving her that I will be pulled over. Why? Because the cops doing the stop assume I'm going to be Hispanic and therefore ripe for being harassed. The song and dance routine they have to suddenly engage in when the window rolls down and there's a big old white guy in the driver seat with his dog in the passenger seat would be hilarious if it wasn't pathetic. The excuses that come forth are always about her height, the darkness of her tint, or the volume of her exhaust note. When I cite, verbatim, Texas motor vehicle code to them (which they clearly do not know as well as I), they get really awkward really fast.

Why is that? Because I am white, know the law, remain calm, and don't kowtow to their "authority" and therefore do not fit their racial profiling and refuse to be harassed.

Amusingly, when I drive my Ram 1500, I am never pulled over and I drive that truck a lot less carefully than I do my Lightning!

I mean, there are now a cornucopia of recorded and reported instances of cops behaving badly, abusing their authority, and actively being hostile to the general public. How much more evidence do you need that the whole concept of policing in America is corrupt and ethically bankrupt before you realize "Hey, maybe this concept doesn't work and needs to be replaced entirely"? Do I even need to bring up the shitshow that was Uvalde where cops were standing around in a hallway fucking around on social media on their phones while kids were being murdered? Or the recent event, as of this week, in Seattle where a cop was recorded, on his own goddamned body cam, laughing about a pedestrian that was struck and killed by another cop doing 75 in a 25 zone and saying "She was of little value"? Want me to go on? Because I can cite many, many more examples of cops in the US being corrupt and downright evil.

As for the courts, man, where to begin. How about Citizens United vs FEC that allowed corporations to bribe politicians in all but name and gave them the same Constitutional rights as actual human beings? Or that three Supreme Court Justices said during their Senate confirmation hearings that abortion was "established law and they would not overturn it" but went right ahead and did so anyway? How about Justice Thomas and his wife who have been proven to have been receiving "gifts" from corporations and wealthy people and, gee, wouldn't you know it...his opinions just always happen to go the way of those same corporations and wealthy people. Must be coincidence, right? Or how about the Eastern District of Texas Federal Court that always, and I mean always, rules in favor of corporations no matter how byzantine their reading of the law has to be to support those rulings? How about the ridiculous concept of "qualified immunity" that shields cops from legally sanctionable actions time and again that would put the average citizen in jail for years if not decades?

Sorry, the rot runs too deep and we are well beyond the point of reformation. You cannot use the same tool to reform when the tool itself is compromised.

The tin foil hatting is strong in this thread.