Godot is a really good alternative. They even include a document for helping Unity devs migrate to their engine.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Sep 15, 2023, 09:21:
I am sure that the actual devs and programmers working at Unity are as much in the dark as we are, and I wouldn't blame them if they're all polishing up their resumes.

https://twitter.com/jonoforbes/status/1702075391958204502

Already happening, and it's apparent that the C-suite didn't even think of the rank and file staff when they did these changes.

jdreyer wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 22:23:

Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 21:43:
The thing which comes to my mind over all of this is, those licensing agreements must have some really broad or vague language (or both) to allow such a retro-active charge. It just seems non-sensical to me. I mean, it feels like it is a small step away from you having to pay a small fee to Parker Bros. each time you played Monopoly.

That's what is confusing to me too. Wasn't there a contract? Typically one party can't unilaterally change contract terms.

It depends on the jurisdiction, there is a firm in the UK that seems to think that this is blatantly illegal in the EU. It is possibly illegal in the US as well, but I don't know enough about it.

It's gobbledygook. I swear, Unity is just punking everyone. I am undecided if this is some deliberate stock market manipulation to cash out and shutter the company, or just a misguided C-Suite attempt to 'maximize profits'.

I am sure that the actual devs and programmers working at Unity are as much in the dark as we are, and I wouldn't blame them if they're all polishing up their resumes.

Oh and Penny Arcade has chimed in on this, so raise the sarcasm modifier to +10:
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2023/09/15/disunity

The Flying Penguin wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 09:58:

Unity is not clear in its FAQ how it’s keeping track of who is installing Unity games. To the question “Is software made in unity going to be calling home to unity whenever it's ran, even for enterprice [sic] licenses?” Unity says: “We use a composite model for counting runtime installs that collects data from numerous sources. The Unity Runtime Fee will use data in compliance with GDPR and CCPA. The data being requested is aggregated and is being used for billing purposes.”

So there may not be ANY transparency about how they obtain the numbers that you will be billed for.

A "composite model"? That sounds to me like they won't even know how many installs it is, and are going to charge companies based on a guess. 🤦‍♂️

Avus wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 23:09:
BTW, more shitty move by this POS CEO...
https://kotaku.com/unity-developer-fee-installs-john-riccitiello-sold-stoc-1850834439

That's insider trading and highly illegal. It would not surprise me if the SEC investigates.

You're forgetting another behemoth: Genshin Impact. I am not an expert or in the field, but I would speculate that the larger companies will simply end of cycle their current games (hearthstone, genshin, etc...) and announce "sequels."

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 15:46:
I should have just led with this:

Hearthstone is made with Unity. Blizzard's Hearthstone. Millions of installs, on a free to play game.

HA! Nice. I look forward to seeing Blizzard's statement on this situation.

I should have just led with this:

Hearthstone is made with Unity. Blizzard's Hearthstone. Millions of installs, on a free to play game. So ideally, Blizzard sues the fuck out of Unity, but they may just leverage their billions to get themselves a sweeter deal and let smaller studios die from the Unity fees.

Obsidian, Owlcat, all those midrange studios that are making or have made great games on Unity... I hope they can bring legal pressure against Unity as well. This is a terrible scenario. Rogue Trader is probably fucked.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 13:01:

VaranDragon wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 07:44:

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 20:12:

Darks wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 20:06:
Might be the end of Unity after this. I see this going to same way the DnD backlash went. Unity might want to rethink this or it could spell doom for them.

Who cares? It was always a garbage engine anyway.

There were some fantastic games made on Unity. It wasn't a garbage engine, it was an affordable alternative.

I never said anything about/against the games per se but only about/against the crappy engine. Those fantastic games are not going anywhere. We will get to keep them in our libraries.

Some of my all-time favs (e.g. Pillars of Eternity series, BattleTech) have been made with Unity but that doesn't change the fact that the engine is crap and that I will not miss it if it goes away. As I also said, I hope there aren't too many devs too deep into development to make the switch to a different, decent engine like Unreal.

One studio that is probably quite massively affected by this stupid move, however, is Owlcat. Ouch. They are definitely knee-deep in development of Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader *and* they are also still working on Pathfinder WotR content for season pass #2. They are "all-in" on Unity.
One can only hope that they will pull through somehow. Well, and get the team to transition to Unreal ASAP for the next game(s).

More ignorant vomit. You realize that most studios that have been making games on Unity don't have a single C++ developer right? What are they going to do, just read a few fucking tutorials? Or maybe fire all their C#/Unity developers and hire Unreal devs? Do you have literally ANY experience in this field? For indies, this isn't an arbitrary choice that they make for each project. It's heavily dictated by what their existing staff is familiar with and can utilize efficiently. For many studios, they are either going to have to just give in to Unity's ridiculous scheme here or shut down. And that's why Unity is doing it. They know this. If they thought studios could just "switch to Unreal" without a problem, they wouldn't be doing this.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 13:01:
... ... ...
Who cares? It was always a garbage engine anyway.
... ... ...
... ... ...

- Unity was a free engine (or paid with advantages).
Unreal is free too, but even if Unity costs more up-front, many indie devs are wary of Unreal royalty-based plan as profits can vary wildly.
- No more preferred free engine => less games produced, or canceled, or sequels shelved.
- Indie studios go down. An all around loss to gamers too.
- If poor developers cannot afford an Unreal environment => no game

- Your favorite Pillars of Eternity games and others, very probably wouldn't have been made without the cheap alternative that was the Unity Engine as Obsidian was in a weak economic situation.
And they chose Unity over Unreal in that situation.

Unity allowed them the creative freedom they applied without constrains from publishers.
Also used it for last year Pentiment.
Maybe for 2D games the better option is Unity ?
Does Obsidian know something that we don't ? Who are those guys ??

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2023, 15:47.

Elon Musk: "A cult on sale?! I'M BUYING!!! I will bring my sink with me."

jdreyer wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 12:28:
Why stop at charging $0.20 per install? If it's legal as claimed, charge $20.00! Now you're making real money.

I like the way you think.

VaranDragon wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 07:44:

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 20:12:

Darks wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 20:06:
Might be the end of Unity after this. I see this going to same way the DnD backlash went. Unity might want to rethink this or it could spell doom for them.

Who cares? It was always a garbage engine anyway.

There were some fantastic games made on Unity. It wasn't a garbage engine, it was an affordable alternative.

I never said anything about/against the games per se but only about/against the crappy engine. Those fantastic games are not going anywhere. We will get to keep them in our libraries.

Some of my all-time favs (e.g. Pillars of Eternity series, BattleTech) have been made with Unity but that doesn't change the fact that the engine is crap and that I will not miss it if it goes away. As I also said, I hope there aren't too many devs too deep into development to make the switch to a different, decent engine like Unreal.

One studio that is probably quite massively affected by this stupid move, however, is Owlcat. Ouch. They are definitely knee-deep in development of Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader *and* they are also still working on Pathfinder WotR content for season pass #2. They are "all-in" on Unity.
One can only hope that they will pull through somehow. Well, and get the team to transition to Unreal ASAP for the next game(s).

Bent wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 12:38:
If demo installs count against those install totals, that will also create a disincentive to release demos.

Different executable, and wouldn't count toward the min sales amount threshold.

If demo installs count against those install totals, that will also create a disincentive to release demos.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 09:58:

Unity is not clear in its FAQ how it’s keeping track of who is installing Unity games. To the question “Is software made in unity going to be calling home to unity whenever it's ran, even for enterprice [sic] licenses?” Unity says: “We use a composite model for counting runtime installs that collects data from numerous sources. The Unity Runtime Fee will use data in compliance with GDPR and CCPA. The data being requested is aggregated and is being used for billing purposes.”

So there may not be ANY transparency about how they obtain the numbers that you will be billed for.

Given said lack of transparency in determining what the fees are, I would say this is unlikely to stand up in court as soon as some developer either proactively sues challenging the billing method, or gets sued by refusing to pay.

EDIT: "We think your game had 300,000 installs this year, so pay us $60,000."

This comment was edited on Sep 14, 2023, 12:47.

Why stop at charging $0.20 per install? If it's legal as claimed, charge $20.00! Now you're making real money.

Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 10:20:

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Sep 14, 2023, 09:33:
I am starting to wonder what the hell games people even play, if they don't consider any of the hundreds/thousands of games made on Unity to be good.

Here's another probably incomplete list of Unity games, many of which are pretty amazing in my opinion, if smaller in scale than some AAA games.

I realize this wasn't directed at me since I said nothing like that -- but scanning the list (did not carefully examine it), I saw only a couple of dozen games I actually recognized, maybe half a dozen I ever installed, and one I spent significant time in (Slime Rancher). That said, I am would not say they are bad games, just that I had no interest in them. *shrug*

There are a couple games in the list I would consider "big", Subnautica, Rimworld, I'm sure there are others, those jumped out at me.

Weird to reply to a non-reply comment with a presumption that it was (or may have been) intended for you.
I know not everyone goes deep into the comments section, specially with discussions like this, which is approaching Star Citizen levels of clusterfudge, but I'm 95% most of the "Unity isn't trash" comments are replying to RogueSix

(speaking of... fully agree w/ removing my comment, apologies to mods... I should respect this site more than to lower myself like that)

As for other games that should stick out to any gaming enthusiast... this is my list from earlier:

Monument Valley
Valheim
Cuphead
The Return of Obra Dinn
Kerbal Space Program
Outer Wilds
Rimworld
Subnautica
Among Us
Cities: Skylines
FAR: Lone Sails
Heartstone
Ori
Pillars of Eternity

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Sep 14, 2023, 11:53. Reason: Personal attacks (rule 1)