Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 14:29:
IIs Unity in a dominant position? Are devs going to be forced to use Unity even if they don't like this because there isn't another viable choice?

Unity has roughly 43% of the market.
Unreal has roughly 13% of the market.

This directly impacts my project which is currently in Unity. Trying to decide to finish the project in Unity and leave it be, finish in Unity and then rebuild and re-release in Unreal/Godot, or switch now to Godot/Unreal. But another dev said something that really stuck with me: "Unity can't un-ring this bell".

This comment was edited on Sep 15, 2023, 16:03.

MeanJim wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 22:14:

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Exactly. Though credit where credit is due: You can opt out of Unity telemetry. I remember doing this via a link from within some game(s).

I block the entire unity3d.com domain as well as just not allowing games to bypass the firewall unless it's required for MP. I still do the above to reduce my firewall's log, and if I do have to allow a game through the firewall for MP.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Each and every engine in the modern day has telemetry built in. And not just the big commercial ones like Unreal or Unity but also custom engines. Larian has been known to use telemetry extensively for their games. It is the main reason why they do such long early access periods. Swen has repeatedly referred to the collected data as "invaluable".

That's business as usual for the entire industry. We are getting the fuck spied out of us. That's how it is. Don't like it, don't play games or go back to Pong.

Or just block it with a firewall.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Regarding these news, I'm betting Sweeney has had his share of champagne lately. This is awesome news for Unreal. Every developer who isn't stuck with Unity, i.e. too deep into development to make the switch, will surely at least consider Unreal now.

I hope this will push more indies to Godot. We need alternatives to Unreal and Unity.

Thanks . I think I'm going to go with the domain blocking and enter those URLs in my router's firewall.

Agreed on Godot but it may depend on the size of the studio. It may be a good alternative for very small studios but the bigger Unity devs (like Owlcat) are probably better off making the switch to Unreal if they consider the long term.
For example, hiring people with Unreal experience will be a lot easier than finding someone with Godot experience.

I'm no game engine pundit but from what I have heard and read, it would seem that Epic has done a lot of streamlining with Unreal 5 to make it more appealing for smaller teams. That appears to be one of the main reasons why it has been seeing such widespread adoption in the last year or two. Many game developers obviously consider it to be the best tool set for their projects.

jacobvandy wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 14:42:

Prez wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 14:03:
Then change the retroactive bullshit. It would be acceptable I think if it wasn't for that.

It isn't retroactive, except that they'll factor in the total lifetime revenue and install count for an already released game to see where it fits into the fee schedule. They will only charge for installations which happen after the policy goes into effect on January 1.

But...that means it is retroactive. Developers who already started making and selling their games before this, who agreed to a different set of terms, are now being forced to accept a very different one. I sure hope their previous agreement allowed for this because I can smell litigation coming for them.

HoSpanky wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 13:57:
Ok, I took a look at it and it won't absolutely decimate smaller companies. A game has to have sold over a million copies before they'll institute the fee, and it's a pretty small fee (as little as 1 cent). Also the game has to have made at least a million in revenue that year. This is realistically only going to affect big hit games that are making a good chunk of change to begin with.

BUT

It's still going to drive developers away from the engine. This announcement likely made sure that several developers, about to start a project, just chose a different engine for this reason alone.

The million dollar/install limit is for big companies, the limit for indies is much smaller, 200,000 for both I believe.

This is such a mind-bogglingly dumb decision that it's really hard to believe it ever made it off the ground-until you realize how mind-bogglingly greedy most CEOs are. It is not hard at all to spoof a program into thinking it's being installed on a new device.

Did Elon buy Unity? This seems like his attempt to drive Twit...er...X into the ground as a massive tax write off.

How many Unity game devs will dissolve their companies and reincorporate under a new name to avoid being charged?

Bent wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 15:40:
There will be a real disincentive to give out free copies of games now.

Or let them be sold by resellers for a steep discount.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Exactly. Though credit where credit is due: You can opt out of Unity telemetry. I remember doing this via a link from within some game(s).

Not all devs implement an opt out in the settings. I copied this down from somewhere a while ago:

Delete C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\LocalLow\*\*\Unity\*\Analytics\ArchivedEvents

edit C:\Users\<Username>\AppData\LocalLow\*\*\Unity\<GUID>\Analytics\config.

<Username> is your username on the system you're logged into.
<GUID> is a large series of letters and numbers.

Copy and pase the following:

{
"analytics": { "enabled": false },
"connect": {
"limit_user_tracking": true,
"player_opted_out": true,
"enabled": false
},
"performance": { "enabled": false },
"dynamic": {
"coreBusinessMetrics": {
"enabled": false,
"timeToWaitForUserInfoS": 60
},
"analytics": {
"shouldCollectAutomation": false,
"timeToWaitForUserInfoS": 60
}
}
}

Set the file to read-only.

Additional Steps
----------------
As the aforementioned patch does not completely prevent Unity from phoning home, you may also wish to look into blocking the following domains:
cdp.cloud.unity3d.com
config.uca.cloud.unity3d.com
ecommerce.iap.unity3d.com
events.iap.unity3d.com
perf-events.cloud.unity3d.com


It's easy to do if you use Everything and Notepad++. In Everything, search for \Analytics\config, select all, edit with Notepad++.

I block the entire unity3d.com domain as well as just not allowing games to bypass the firewall unless it's required for MP. I still do the above to reduce my firewall's log, and if I do have to allow a game through the firewall for MP.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Each and every engine in the modern day has telemetry built in. And not just the big commercial ones like Unreal or Unity but also custom engines. Larian has been known to use telemetry extensively for their games. It is the main reason why they do such long early access periods. Swen has repeatedly referred to the collected data as "invaluable".

That's business as usual for the entire industry. We are getting the fuck spied out of us. That's how it is. Don't like it, don't play games or go back to Pong.

Or just block it with a firewall.

RogueSix wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 18:21:
Regarding these news, I'm betting Sweeney has had his share of champagne lately. This is awesome news for Unreal. Every developer who isn't stuck with Unity, i.e. too deep into development to make the switch, will surely at least consider Unreal now.

I hope this will push more indies to Godot. We need alternatives to Unreal and Unity.

Really what this seems to be about is scaring smaller devs into signing up for Pro. All the really, really terrifying edge cases arise with the free tier license:

• You make a FTP game that goes viral but monetizes poorly. You get five million installs, $200K revenue, and lose your home
• You make a long-tail game that chugs along for a few years making $100K average so you think you're safe. But the installs rack up and up and then one year you sneak over the $200K revenue annual limit and now you owe 20c for every install over the first 200K since the game launched

With the pro license, not only are the annual thresholds significantly higher, but the drop-off in fees takes the sting out of backlogged install counts.

Mr. Tact wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 14:29:
I'm just simply confused. Not only on why they think this is a good idea, but on why they think anyone isn't going to abandon any implementation of their engine forthwith... Then again, I don't know the market. Is Unity in a dominant position? Are devs going to be forced to use Unity even if they don't like this because there isn't another viable choice?

Many Indie devs can switch to Godot, but like everything, there's a learning curve and can't be done over night.

MeanJim wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 16:11:

Jim wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 13:23:
So unity has decided not to trust their users based on sales but instead have the app phone home on install. kind of shitty really. people upgrade regularly, will reinstall on new DLCs, also family sharing plans, etc.

Unity has always phoned home. That part isn't new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAvt5L__8qY

Exactly. Though credit where credit is due: You can opt out of Unity telemetry. I remember doing this via a link from within some game(s).

Each and every engine in the modern day has telemetry built in. And not just the big commercial ones like Unreal or Unity but also custom engines. Larian has been known to use telemetry extensively for their games. It is the main reason why they do such long early access periods. Swen has repeatedly referred to the collected data as "invaluable".

That's business as usual for the entire industry. We are getting the fuck spied out of us. That's how it is. Don't like it, don't play games or go back to Pong.

Regarding these news, I'm betting Sweeney has had his share of champagne lately. This is awesome news for Unreal. Every developer who isn't stuck with Unity, i.e. too deep into development to make the switch, will surely at least consider Unreal now.

I personally wouldn't miss Unity. I appreciate that this engine has enabled some devs to get off the ground but Unity games have almost always been problematic by heavily taxing hardware even when you're just sitting in the main menu. It is wonky as fuck.

Seeing how more and more smaller devs are making the switch to Unreal 5, it seems like Unreal is finally at a point where it is also a feasible option for smaller indie devs. I hope that no games/devs are going to die over this unfathomably stupid idea by Unity.

So, John Riccitiello big plan is to greed Unity out of business. Fuck I could be a CEO, I am totally capable of making stupid decisions.

HoSpanky wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 13:57:
Also the game has to have made at least a million in revenue that year.

It's not an "and" it's "either/or" depending on the subscription level. One million lifetime installs *or* one million dollars revenue. And you're already paying for the license. And the small indy dev level license for small games is going away, you have to buy the more expensive license.

It's still a terrible idea and from the stories I've read that have come in this was absolutely not researched in the slightest before announcing it. The bundle issue was apparently never thought of for example.

Edit: As far as Unity phoning home sounds like I need to see which URLs it reports to so I can blacklist them on my pihole.

Prez wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 13:27:
Slightly less asinine, but decidedly still asinine. Unity utterly deserves to fail as a direct result.

I mean, it still leaves open extortion attempts such as threats to install programs via a botnet to swamp devs for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Ugh, truly horrible, greed driven decision.

I will feel guilty as hell if I ever reinstall some old Unity based game... it's literally charging the developers after the fact. Completely unacceptable. Because I don't trust this announcement at all, are they keeping a database of all IPs/machine configs for all fucking time, and records of the initial install? Who still has the same computer from 5-15 years ago? Of course this will still keep charging the developers, years/decades after the fact, because people update/change machines/buy new ones. Good luck as some indie developer trying to argue against these crazy charges that will come their way, based on whatever closed system reporting Unity does. Good luck to any indie developer whose game got pirated and shared all over.

Some smaller studios are going to get fucked by this, or at least sued by Unity for not paying bullshit Unity charges 10 years after they made a game. This kind of corporate predatory bullshit is literally killing the human race.

Hopefully Microsoft, Blizzard, etc. all sue the fuck out of these guys immediately.

*EDIT* Whoops wrong company name

This comment was edited on Sep 15, 2023, 18:58.

Jim wrote on Sep 13, 2023, 13:23:
So unity has decided not to trust their users based on sales but instead have the app phone home on install. kind of shitty really. people upgrade regularly, will reinstall on new DLCs, also family sharing plans, etc.

Unity has always phoned home. That part isn't new.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAvt5L__8qY

This news, as well as the solution to those impacted by this news, is... unreal.

There will be a real disincentive to give out free copies of games now.

Why does anything associated with rico' itello, go limp and turn into a big pile of pig poo?