cappy wrote on Sep 1, 2023, 20:16:
Now boots in under 30 seconds again.

RedEye9 wrote on Sep 1, 2023, 19:07:

cappy wrote on Sep 1, 2023, 18:52:
I've also been building for 40 years. But I actually have a single "bought" computer - a 3-year-old Windows 10 Dell Inspiron used only for work

And the issue is that the Dell is now taking several minutes during POST when it used to be zippy for a full startup courtesy of having only an SSD.

Dell's tool for checking hardware claims no issues, FWIW. Drivers are all updated. I also ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic which didn't find any issues, also FWIW.

Any recommendations?

The Dell BIOS is not terribly sophisticated as far as information you can see from what I saw when I glanced at it. Typically, few-minute-long POST times indicate potential issues with memory (most likely), or else various other hardware. Once it finishes booting, it performs just fine.

I would not rule out anything, sometimes it's the weirdest thing that fixes it. (unless the recommendation is to strip naked and run down the street)
Dell Forums "POST very SLOW"
Dell Knowledge Base Article How to Troubleshoot Slow Performance Issues
Windows 11: Troubleshooting sleep and hibernation issues on your Dell Personal Computer
DELL PC taking 5+minuts to boot

I think I may have fixed whatever the issue may have been (knock on wood)

Delved into Dell's crappy BIOS and found several SATAs enabled with no drives assigned. Waste of time to have them enabled so I disabled the ones not being used. Now boots in under 30 seconds again.

Also had run additional diagnostics built into Dell's BIOS with no issues found supposedly. But I've seen memory get flaky where only a multi-hours-long deep test will find issues.

cappy wrote on Sep 1, 2023, 18:52:
I've also been building for 40 years. But I actually have a single "bought" computer - a 3-year-old Windows 10 Dell Inspiron used only for work

And the issue is that the Dell is now taking several minutes during POST when it used to be zippy for a full startup courtesy of having only an SSD.

Dell's tool for checking hardware claims no issues, FWIW. Drivers are all updated. I also ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic which didn't find any issues, also FWIW.

Any recommendations?

The Dell BIOS is not terribly sophisticated as far as information you can see from what I saw when I glanced at it. Typically, few-minute-long POST times indicate potential issues with memory (most likely), or else various other hardware. Once it finishes booting, it performs just fine.

I would not rule out anything, sometimes it's the weirdest thing that fixes it. (unless the recommendation is to strip naked and run down the street)
Dell Forums "POST very SLOW"
Dell Knowledge Base Article How to Troubleshoot Slow Performance Issues
Windows 11: Troubleshooting sleep and hibernation issues on your Dell Personal Computer
DELL PC taking 5+minuts to boot

I've also been building for 30+ years. But I actually have a single "bought" computer - a 3-year-old Windows 10 Dell Inspiron used only for work

And the issue is that the Dell is now taking several minutes during POST when it used to be zippy for a full startup courtesy of having only an SSD.

Dell's tool for checking hardware claims no issues, FWIW. Drivers are all updated. I also ran the Windows Memory Diagnostic which didn't find any issues, also FWIW.

Any recommendations?

The Dell BIOS is not terribly sophisticated as far as information you can see from what I saw when I glanced at it. Typically, few-minute-long POST times indicate potential issues with memory (most likely), or else various other hardware. Once it finishes booting, it performs just fine.

This comment was edited on Sep 1, 2023, 20:14.

The last prebuilt I brought was a Dell in 2004. They had $750 off $2000 coupons, so for $1300 I got their top of the line, including an x850xtpe, which was a brand new $550 graphics card.
Being a Dell, that thing gave me endless PSU issues.

I really don't see myself going back prebuilt. Not even really knowing what I'm doing (I've built 5 or 6 PCs, but so much time between) it's still pretty easy. Only issues are CPU grease (so much misinformation and conflicting information) and connecting some of those tiny and fussy wires to the sharpest and narrowest part of the case.

Even valuing my time, the research into parts is weirdly fun for me, and the building and setup is like a 2 hour process. And I'm a guy that buys precut fruit from the supermarket (ain't no one got time to slice a damn mango.)

I'm like you guys. I prefer to build my own. I've built every PC I've ever owned, and I've been building them since CPUs were passively cooled. 🤣 Never trusting some idiot kid to screw up my build, particularly the way about 90% of the videos I see show people applying thermal paste wrong. 😬 I always paint mine on with a razor blade, covering every bit of the surface.

Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 22:21:

1badmf wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 21:43:
tact you are far too willing to roll the dice on other people's incompetence. that's mainly why i don't go with prebuilts; that and the extra expense.

Of course that assumes my skill at constructing a PC is less likely to contain a major mistake. Also, aren't you taking that risk for anything you buy pre-built? Your clock radio, your luggage, any appliance or electric tool, etc. *shrug*. It seemed like a reasonable risk, and I certainly got a good experience when there was a significant problem.

There are plenty of horror stories around car purchases, house purchases, you name it. I'm guessing you didn't build your own car or house...

i don't because i can't build a house. and i'll eat the cost of a shitty clock radio. pc? nah. same reason i parted out my telescope rather than buy one of those shitty celestron kits. above a certain level i'm getting my hands dirty if at all possible.

1badmf wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 21:43:
tact you are far too willing to roll the dice on other people's incompetence. that's mainly why i don't go with prebuilts; that and the extra expense.

Of course that assumes my skill at constructing a PC is less likely to contain a major mistake. Also, aren't you taking that risk for anything you buy pre-built? Your clock radio, your luggage, any appliance or electric tool, etc. *shrug*. It seemed like a reasonable risk, and I certainly got a good experience when there was a significant problem.

There are plenty of horror stories around car purchases, house purchases, you name it. I'm guessing you didn't build your own car or house...

tact you are far too willing to roll the dice on other people's incompetence. that's mainly why i don't go with prebuilts; that and the extra expense. even from boutique system builders it's a bit of a crapshoot whether they'll do something stupid like leave out the thermal paste or install the fans backwards. GN has some entertaining horror stories of buying prebuilts. i'm so meticulous about my builds i even make ikea furniture look like expensive stuff XD

Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 20:30:
Fair enough! We all gotta do what is best for ourselves.

Just note, I am silently judging you. :P

Judge away. I am lazy bum, it is my nature. I always have been. I admit I came nowhere close to fulfilling my potential, socially, educationally, economically, whatever way you want to choose. Heck, I look back at my life and I am amazed I accomplished as much as I did. But you know what, I'm fine with all of that. *shrug* I've had a good life. And I realize part of the reason is because I was born, white, male, in the second half of the 20th century, in the US, to lower middle class family. I always had a roof over my head, I always had food to eat. Perhaps an average US existence, but a privileged one compared to many others in the world. I'm thankful for that. All that said, I see no reason to adjust the way I live my life. There is a lot of coulda shoulda in my past but I'm good with didn't bother.

Mr. Tact wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 14:26:
BoP, I accept everything you said as accurate. And I still rather have someone build it for me -- I am THAT lazy.

Fair enough! We all gotta do what is best for ourselves.

Just note, I am silently judging you. :P

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 12:34:
Buying versus building. Beamer priced out the difference here, a $2500 computer becomes $4300. For the price of a boutique pre-built you can upgrade the processor, gpu, ram and storage if you build it yourself (and end up with a smoking hot machine).
I guess you can rationalize spending an exorbitant amount of money for a prebuilt by thinking you are purchasing an extremely overpriced "not-extended" warranty.

Not all boutiques have that massive of a mark-up.

Beyond that, a spec'd system I did via Origin (just prior to the Corsair purchase) came out to only ~$200 more. You can, of course, buy a massively marked-up system from any one of the boutiques, but that could be equally said for piecemeal purchasing yourself depending on the vendors.

The system I spec'd had an upsell on it because it had a PS4 Pro attached to it and a warrantied OC'd processor. I actually got a deal on the video card and the cooling system of between 16 and 25%.

Now, I did spec a system out at a place like FalconNW with a comparable (they didn't have the motherboard) and it was still roughly $1300 more, but that's always been FalconNW's thing.

Usually, the reason I've purchased prebuilts lately is that I just want it to work out of the box with minimal headaches involved, and I've been building PCs for almost 30 years now, I think I can allow myself a break from doing it sometimes

BoP, I accept everything you said as accurate. And I still rather have someone build it for me -- I am THAT lazy.

ZeroPike1 wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 12:58:

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 12:34:

my biggest fear of doing a self build was mounting the processor and applying Thermal paste.

I just take my mainboard to Geek Squad and have them install the CPU and Thermal paste.

I've been building my own systems since 1988. The only prebuilts I have had are from jobs that have purchased them.

Back in the day, with jumpers and IRQs, it was a little more complicated. Now, though, I could walk an 8 year old through it. They've become exponentially easier to assemble. Moreso if you are using solely NVMe drives. 2, maybe 3, power connectors to the motherboard, 1-3 for the GPU, and the pinouts for your front panel.Might take me a half hour these days to build it.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 31, 2023, 12:34:
Buying versus building. Beamer priced out the difference here, a $2500 computer becomes $4300. For the price of a boutique pre-built you can upgrade the processor, gpu, ram and storage if you build it yourself (and end up with a smoking hot machine).
I guess you can rationalize spending an exorbitant amount of money for a prebuilt by thinking you are purchasing an extremely overpriced "not-extended" warranty.

For many years, my biggest fear of doing a self build was mounting the processor and applying Thermal paste. I bought at least 2 pre builts with good CPUs and Mainboard combo's, then I would add in any stuff I wanted by hand. But once I crossed that self confidence hurdle, the sky was the limit. I fully built my last 3 PC's by hand, with some help from Wifey. And by PC's I mean a new CPU and Mobo swap out sometimes new cases.

Buying versus building. Beamer priced out the difference here, a $2500 computer becomes $4300. For the price of a boutique pre-built you can upgrade the processor, gpu, ram and storage if you build it yourself (and end up with a smoking hot machine).
I guess you can rationalize spending an exorbitant amount of money for a prebuilt by thinking you are purchasing an extremely overpriced "not-extended" warranty.