Based

WannaLogAlready wrote on Aug 29, 2023, 14:48:

Orogogus wrote on Aug 29, 2023, 13:28:
... ... ...
I wouldn't say that's unknown; it's controversial. Some people are very unhappy other people pay less than they do, and think companies that have regional pricing are evil.

I get you are stating a fact and not your personal opinion, though it would be ok if it is.

I pirated games for decades because the few physical games you could buy here legally with taxes were outrageously costly for economic misery as a way of life and ingrained culture.
(I'm one of the lucky few , I think my country is sinking into the Atlantic any day now.)

The same when online stores began.
Then Steam came along: piracy has practically disappeared compared to what it was.
Without it I would have kept pirating, Steam changed me and others, that's how important it is.

And hey, "F.Y., I got mine™" and "Ugh, you're not one of us™" work famously here too
You're a pal RE9.

Yeah, I agree with regional pricing. The game companies are going to price for the US, Japan and western Europe since that's where most of their sales come from, and without regional pricing people in other territories just won't get games. I'd written more but I felt like I was starting to argue with people who aren't even here. "FY, got mine" is exactly what it is.

Orogogus wrote on Aug 29, 2023, 13:28:
... ... ...
I wouldn't say that's unknown; it's controversial. Some people are very unhappy other people pay less than they do, and think companies that have regional pricing are evil.

I get you are stating a fact and not your personal opinion, though it would be ok if it is.

I pirated games for decades because the few physical games you could buy here legally with taxes were outrageously costly for economic misery as a way of life and ingrained culture.
(I'm one of the lucky few , I think my country is sinking into the Atlantic any day now.)

The same when online stores began.
Then Steam came along: piracy has practically disappeared compared to what it was.
Without it I would have kept pirating, Steam changed me and others, that's how important it is.

And hey, "F.Y., I got mine™" and "Ugh, you're not one of us™" work famously here too
You're a pal RE9.

Orogogus wrote on Aug 29, 2023, 13:28:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Aug 28, 2023, 20:07:
Another forgotten but brilliant and unique aspect of Steam, unknown to the USA and rest of the 1st world people:

Steam is the ****only**** store that lowers the price in third world countries according to their economic situation.
So smart of Gabe, as instead of flocking to piracy, tens of millions of gamers (not all of course) *can* buy the games, and though lowered, the price adds up to a shit ton of additional money for developers/publishers they wouldn't see otherwise.

No matter how reduced other stores' prices are, they are many times higher than Steam's.
Source: I'm Argentinian, the most benefited country. 4000+ games on Steam.

I wouldn't say that's unknown; it's controversial. Some people are very unhappy other people pay less than they do, and think companies that have regional pricing are evil.

I doubt WannaLogAlready or any gamer that takes advantage of living in a country that has prices adjusted according to income thinks it's evil.
I think you meant to say that some companies think regional pricing is evil, cocaine and hookers doesn't pay for itself.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Aug 28, 2023, 20:07:
Another forgotten but brilliant and unique aspect of Steam, unknown to the USA and rest of the 1st world people:

Steam is the ****only**** store that lowers the price in third world countries according to their economic situation.
So smart of Gabe, as instead of flocking to piracy, tens of millions of gamers (not all of course) *can* buy the games, and though lowered, the price adds up to a shit ton of additional money for developers/publishers they wouldn't see otherwise.

No matter how reduced other stores' prices are, they are many times higher than Steam's.
Source: I'm Argentinian, the most benefited country. 4000+ games on Steam.

I wouldn't say that's unknown; it's controversial. Some people are very unhappy other people pay less than they do, and think companies that have regional pricing are evil.

Another forgotten but brilliant and unique aspect of Steam, unknown to the USA and rest of the 1st world people:

Steam is the ****only**** store that lowers the price in third world countries according to their economic situation.
So smart of Gabe, as instead of flocking to piracy, tens of millions of gamers (not all of course) *can* buy the games, and though lowered, the price adds up to a shit ton of additional money for developers/publishers they wouldn't see otherwise.

No matter how reduced other stores' prices are, they are many times higher than Steam's.
Source: I'm Argentinian, the most benefited country. 4000+ games on Steam.

Orogogus wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 18:32:

• Remote Play, streaming from my desktop PC to the downstairs TV or Steam Deck.
• Big Picture mode.
• I used Remote Play Together in the past to play some same-screen co-op games like Overcooked, but since I switched from cable to wireless Internet it hasn't worked so well.
• Family share to let my brother and father play (most of) the games in my library.
• Global controller remapping, including for VR.
• I didn't think I'd use Steam Notes, but it actually came in handy in the System Shock remake since you can't write on the map.
• Not something I use, but Valve sells physical gift cards, allowing for cash-only purchases.

Thanks! I knew of some of these, but didn't really consider those I did as selling points.

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:56:

Sepharo wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:13:

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:57:

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I assumed that he detected that you were one of these people who will pretend to be oblivious to Steam's myriad features.
Or if you're willing to acknowledge their existence, will just claim they're useless.

If you only see these as game launchers or as an obstacle between you and the game... then you won't possibly be able to understand why someone would prefer the feature-rich Steam over another launcher.

What features are these which positively impact the playing of a game? Everyone always says "features" but never actually says what they are. I use steam's chat features predominantly and they're great, but I use them whether I'm playing a game through steam or not. Workshop makes mods easy which is a good convenience aspect, but it existing doesn't prevent me from using the same mods on a non steam copy. I'm sure there are a bunch I don't use which is why I've asked what they are and nobody ever seems to have an answer.

• Remote Play, streaming from my desktop PC to the downstairs TV or Steam Deck.
• Big Picture mode.
• I used Remote Play Together in the past to play some same-screen co-op games like Overcooked, but since I switched from cable to wireless Internet it hasn't worked so well.
• Family share to let my brother and father play (most of) the games in my library.
• Global controller remapping, including for VR.
• I didn't think I'd use Steam Notes, but it actually came in handy in the System Shock remake since you can't write on the map.
• Not something I use, but Valve sells physical gift cards, allowing for cash-only purchases.

Sepharo wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:13:

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:57:

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I assumed that he detected that you were one of these people who will pretend to be oblivious to Steam's myriad features.
Or if you're willing to acknowledge their existence, will just claim they're useless.

If you only see these as game launchers or as an obstacle between you and the game... then you won't possibly be able to understand why someone would prefer the feature-rich Steam over another launcher.

What features are these which positively impact the playing of a game? Everyone always says "features" but never actually says what they are. I use steam's chat features predominantly and they're great, but I use them whether I'm playing a game through steam or not. Workshop makes mods easy which is a good convenience aspect, but it existing doesn't prevent me from using the same mods on a non steam copy. I'm sure there are a bunch I don't use which is why I've asked what they are and nobody ever seems to have an answer.

Slashman wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:34:

Sepharo wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:13:

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:57:

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I assumed that he detected that you were one of these people who will pretend to be oblivious to Steam's myriad features.
Or if you're willing to acknowledge their existence, will just claim they're useless.

If you only see these as game launchers or as an obstacle between you and the game... then you won't possibly be able to understand why someone would prefer the feature-rich Steam over another launcher.

That's basically what it comes down to. You don't care...other people do. A LOT of other people from the looks of things...and that's what matters.

Did the lot of you also NOT buy Diablo 4 because of the horrible reputation Blizzard has over the things it has done to employees for years. How many of you did not buy an EA game because of the wrongful things it has done to its employees. How about Ubisoft? No?

For some strange reason...Steam is the whipping post of the day because they are bigger than Epic and deserve to be taken down because how dare they stop making games you want and run a successful online store? The horror!!!

I'm not sure who you're responding to here, but personally I don't buy actibliz or ubi games anymore because of exactly that. Do I like their games? Sure some of them, but I'd rather not support companies that don't appear to have any interest in changing. EA is a bit of a different animal as their wrongdoings (at least that I'm aware of) are more along the lines of standard US corporate terrible. They're not a good company by any stretch, but they also aren't any different than any other big publisher in the ways they're bad. I don't get many of their games, but that's because I'm not interested in most of them.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Valve they're just not better than anyone else in the space either.

Sepharo wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 17:13:

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:57:

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I assumed that he detected that you were one of these people who will pretend to be oblivious to Steam's myriad features.
Or if you're willing to acknowledge their existence, will just claim they're useless.

If you only see these as game launchers or as an obstacle between you and the game... then you won't possibly be able to understand why someone would prefer the feature-rich Steam over another launcher.

That's basically what it comes down to. You don't care...other people do. A LOT of other people from the looks of things...and that's what matters.

Did the lot of you also NOT buy Diablo 4 because of the horrible reputation Blizzard has over the things it has done to employees for years. How many of you did not buy an EA game because of the wrongful things it has done to its employees. How about Ubisoft? No?

For some strange reason...Steam is the whipping post of the day because they are bigger than Epic and deserve to be taken down because how dare they stop making games you want and run a successful online store? The horror!!!

thestryker wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:57:

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I assumed that he detected that you were one of these people who will pretend to be oblivious to Steam's myriad features.
Or if you're willing to acknowledge their existence, will just claim they're useless.

If you only see these as game launchers or as an obstacle between you and the game... then you won't possibly be able to understand why someone would prefer the feature-rich Steam over another launcher.

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 16:33:
I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

You gave nothing but bad faith reasoning so you shouldn't be surprised by my response.

I thought you were actually asking in good faith but pretty clear that’s not the case.

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 14:16:

thestryker wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:14:

Verno wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 14:13:
Anyways to address your other point, it's not the job of consumers to directly reward creators, this isn't Patreon. I'm not directly paying someones salary, I don't have that agency in decisions when I decide to purchase a game. It's a product that I buy, that's the beginning and end of that relationship.

Out of curiosity why don't you care about the creators getting maximum revenue from the sales of their product? I started buying games published by indie developers on EGS (I totally get not caring about giving big publishers extra money, devs will never see a dime) simply so they get more of what I spend because it costs me nothing. I'm not demanding anyone do the same as it's a personal choice, but I'm curious what reason someone wouldn't.

I'm an end consumer purchasing a product, I'm not an investor and this isn't children in sweatshops assembling phones or something. If I wanted to determine who gets paid what then I would purchase shares in the company. Let me ask you a question - do you take that even further and make sure that the revenue split actually goes to the people who make the product instead of dividends to executives, publishers or a shareholder who controls the whole company? I bet you don't. I wouldn't expect you to either, it's not reasonable to ask or expect consumers to weigh these things when they're just buying a simple product. I buy a game wherever I want based on a variety of factors - price, features, availability, marketing and so on. I don't sit there going "well golly if I bought Civ VI on Fanatical, the dev gets 17% instead of 15% on Steam". I don't have that information at hand readily and there are way too many platforms and storefronts for something that is not a purchasing factor for most consumers. Revenue splits are a business concern between respective parties.

You could have just said apathy instead of this entire paragraph. You obviously know they get more money from EGS and once you know that you've simply chosen to not add it to the metrics you use to make purchasing choices. I was mostly curious if there was an actual reason, but it doesn't seem like there is.

Verno wrote on Aug 25, 2023, 14:16:
I only purchase games on the Epic Games Store when they beat the price on Steam because in most other respects it lacks feature parity. As a result, I don't buy many games on there because more often than not, they aren't cheaper.

What features are these that impact your playing of any game?

thestryker wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:14:

Verno wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 14:13:
Anyways to address your other point, it's not the job of consumers to directly reward creators, this isn't Patreon. I'm not directly paying someones salary, I don't have that agency in decisions when I decide to purchase a game. It's a product that I buy, that's the beginning and end of that relationship.

Out of curiosity why don't you care about the creators getting maximum revenue from the sales of their product? I started buying games published by indie developers on EGS (I totally get not caring about giving big publishers extra money, devs will never see a dime) simply so they get more of what I spend because it costs me nothing. I'm not demanding anyone do the same as it's a personal choice, but I'm curious what reason someone wouldn't.

I'm an end consumer purchasing a product, I'm not an investor and this isn't children in sweatshops assembling phones or something. If I wanted to determine who gets paid what then I would purchase shares in the company. Let me ask you a question - do you take that even further and make sure that the revenue split actually goes to the people who make the product instead of dividends to executives, publishers or a shareholder who controls the whole company? I bet you don't. I wouldn't expect you to either, it's not reasonable to ask or expect consumers to weigh these things when they're just buying a simple product. I buy a game wherever I want based on a variety of factors - price, features, availability, marketing and so on. I don't sit there going "well golly if I bought Civ VI on Fanatical, the dev gets 17% instead of 15% on Steam". I don't have that information at hand readily and there are way too many platforms and storefronts for something that is not a purchasing factor for most consumers. Revenue splits are a business concern between respective parties.

I only purchase games on the Epic Games Store when they beat the price on Steam because in most other respects it lacks feature parity. As a result, I don't buy many games on there because more often than not, they aren't cheaper.

MeanJim wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 20:48:

Nucas wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 00:24:
you guys are missing that this extends to key sites as well. so you can get your title in front of people on humble, GMG, fanatical, and sell discounted keys to gamers, but they activate on epic game store and you get to keep everything.

So, just like how Steam keys work. Valve doesn't take a cut from the sales of Steam keys. Valve only gets a cut if the sale is directly from the Steam store. People keep forgetting this.

In most cases, the publisher doesn't get a cut from key sales, making them a lose-lose for Valve and platform but a win-win for gamers and key sellers.

Nucas wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 00:24:
you guys are missing that this extends to key sites as well. so you can get your title in front of people on humble, GMG, fanatical, and sell discounted keys to gamers, but they activate on epic game store and you get to keep everything.

So, just like how Steam keys work. Valve doesn't take a cut from the sales of Steam keys. Valve only gets a cut if the sale is directly from the Steam store. People keep forgetting this.

Why Valve actually gets less than 30 percent of Steam game sales

When the revenue Valve is missing from these Steam keys is taken out, the company's average cut across these popular games hovers around 20 percent of all sales revenue rather than 30 percent

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:33:

thestryker wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:08:

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 16:27:

Slick wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 12:18:

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 12:02:

You have golf equipment and your house has at least 3 closets.

Closet 1 stores the bag and clubs
Closet 2 stores the golf balls, tees, divot repair tool, and ball markers
Closet 3 stores the specialist golfing rain gear, scorecards, and rangefinder

To golf, you can grab this stuff from three separate closets... or you can consolidate them into one for ease.

Which do you prefer?

Do you belittle those who want to store all their golfing gear conveniently in one place?

That's an analogy full of fallacy if I've ever seen one. I click an icon and my game loads it doesn't matter what storefront it came from. I dunno how you do it, but if your closet comparison is any indication do you only have one storefront per computer?

It's not a fallacy. It's a metaphor for how humans are naturally inclined towards physical and virtual conveniences and, by extension, tend to organize and consolidate things for that purpose. It's tough to break people free from that innate behavior.

There's no real convenience advantage for steam here though which is my point. Steam isn't winning because they're more convenient or better, but rather they were first. In fact if I had to guess I'd bet most sales happen simply because steam is the only thing a lot of people have used and they may not even know any alternatives exist.

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:33:
So if EGS isn't offering something better than what Valve has, it's an uphill battle for them regardless of all the freebies, 12% commission removal, etc. That's on the customer side of the equation. The Steam vs. EGS total customer numbers directly affect where a publisher sells their product (regardless of whether they want to). The publisher sees that EGS has 62M MAU* vs. Steam's 120M (current figures). Selling their product in a location with lower customer engagement and excessive dependence on "gifted" funds would be unwise. This doesn't contribute to their long-term success, and the exclusive arrangement with EGS could ultimately harm their reputation and bottom line.

*Nonetheless, that's quite an impressive figure considering EGS's relatively young age.

Exclusivity is how they got there, and it's sad that this is the only realistic way to do it.

A lot of people forget that when Valve launched steam with HL2 they also decided to start locking Counter-Strike (and anything else MP being updated) behind steam. This was an absolutely horrible choice which damaged a lot of good will, but people didn't have any other option if they wanted to keep playing. Perhaps that's why I don't care at all about exclusive deals or barebones stores. The beginning and ending of my caring as far as that's concerned is "does it just work?".

thestryker wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 18:08:

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 16:27:

Slick wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 12:18:

Kxmode wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 12:02:

You have golf equipment and your house has at least 3 closets.

Closet 1 stores the bag and clubs
Closet 2 stores the golf balls, tees, divot repair tool, and ball markers
Closet 3 stores the specialist golfing rain gear, scorecards, and rangefinder

To golf, you can grab this stuff from three separate closets... or you can consolidate them into one for ease.

Which do you prefer?

Do you belittle those who want to store all their golfing gear conveniently in one place?

That's an analogy full of fallacy if I've ever seen one. I click an icon and my game loads it doesn't matter what storefront it came from. I dunno how you do it, but if your closet comparison is any indication do you only have one storefront per computer?

It's not a fallacy. It's a metaphor for how humans are naturally inclined towards physical and virtual conveniences and, by extension, tend to organize and consolidate things for that purpose. It's tough to break people free from that innate behavior. So if EGS isn't offering something better than what Valve has, it's an uphill battle for them regardless of all the freebies, 12% commission removal, etc. That's on the customer side of the equation. The Steam vs. EGS total customer numbers directly affect where a publisher sells their product (regardless of whether they want to). The publisher sees that EGS has 62M MAU* vs. Steam's 120M (current figures). Selling their product in a location with lower customer engagement and excessive dependence on "gifted" funds would be unwise. This doesn't contribute to their long-term success, and the exclusive arrangement with EGS could ultimately harm their reputation and bottom line.

*Nonetheless, that's quite an impressive figure considering EGS's relatively young age.

Verno wrote on Aug 24, 2023, 14:13:
Anyways to address your other point, it's not the job of consumers to directly reward creators, this isn't Patreon. I'm not directly paying someones salary, I don't have that agency in decisions when I decide to purchase a game. It's a product that I buy, that's the beginning and end of that relationship.

Out of curiosity why don't you care about the creators getting maximum revenue from the sales of their product? I started buying games published by indie developers on EGS (I totally get not caring about giving big publishers extra money, devs will never see a dime) simply so they get more of what I spend because it costs me nothing. I'm not demanding anyone do the same as it's a personal choice, but I'm curious what reason someone wouldn't.