Out of the Blue

Happy first day of summer to all of us in the Northern Hemisphere. Likewise, happy first day of winter for those below the equator. And to those of you on the equator, we call these seasons, nothing for you to worry about. The solstice was 11:57 am EDT if you're keeping score. Speaking of weather, we had a confirmation that the elbow I recently broke is pretty good at predictions. The other night I commented that it might rain because it was feeling achy. MrsBlue looked it up and said there was no rain in the forecast. Not 30 minutes later it was coming down. Thank you very much. Now over to Tom with the sports…

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25 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
Newer [  1  2  ] Older
25.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 22:17
25.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 22:17
Jun 21, 2023, 22:17
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 19:24:
WaltSee wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 17:09:
The submersible had all the safety built in that humans could engineer, but it may not have been enough.
Uh, no. That's a big part of the problem. The "submarine community" actually asked Oceangate to upgrade the vehicle to established standards. And as I stated in another topic the CEO of Oceangate, who is missing in the submersible, claimed those standards were stifling innovation. Now he has been stifled.

based on what i've read they cut a lot of corners designing and building that thing. it didn't have a hatch - it had a metal plate that was bolted on from the outside. hatches aren't a design problem - they've been on DSVs for a long time. it was cut purely for cost. seeing that alone i'd have cancelled the trip. what kinda fly-by-night operation cuts safety features like an operable hatch??!
24.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 22:16
24.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 22:16
Jun 21, 2023, 22:16
 
According to NYT, OceanGate fired it's director of operations for raising legitimate concerns in a report, including that the port window was being rated for 1300m depths...
23.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 20:40
23.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 20:40
Jun 21, 2023, 20:40
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 19:24:
WaltSee wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 17:09:
The submersible had all the safety built in that humans could engineer, but it may not have been enough.
Uh, no. That's a big part of the problem. The "submarine community" actually asked Oceangate to upgrade the vehicle to established standards. And as I stated in another topic the CEO of Oceangate, who is missing in the submersible, claimed those standards were stifling innovation. Now he has been stifled.

This 100%. It was not a safe vessel for this type of activity, and now has most likely lead to death of people.
22.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 19:24
22.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 19:24
Jun 21, 2023, 19:24
 
WaltSee wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 17:09:
The submersible had all the safety built in that humans could engineer, but it may not have been enough.
Uh, no. That's a big part of the problem. The "submarine community" actually asked Oceangate to upgrade the vehicle to established standards. And as I stated in another topic the CEO of Oceangate, who is missing in the submersible, claimed those standards were stifling innovation. Now he has been stifled.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
21.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 19:03
21.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 19:03
Jun 21, 2023, 19:03
 
WaltSee wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 17:09:
PHJF wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:26:
Boat full of migrants capsized, dozens dead: barely mentioned on NPR, let alone anywhere else.

Boat with handful of rich twats missing: all over news for days.

I don't get people trying to start class conflicts over two separate tragedies. The illegal immigrant boat was packed to the gills with people, far exceeding any reasonable safety parameters. That it capsized was hardly surprising (I saw an image of the migrant boat before capsizing--there didn't appear to be a single open square foot onboard that a person wasn't standing in.) The submersible had all the safety built in that humans could engineer, but it may not have been enough. I hope by some miracle they can get them out of there somehow. Let's hope that as many people as possible are rescued from both tragedies. The migrants took a big chance, being packed like sardines on the illegal migrant boat. The people on the submersible paid ludicrous amounts of money just to take a fabulously risky dive for little rational purpose except for maybe "bragging rights"--which is hardly rational--too much money often shrinks the brain...;) [see: Bill Gates] Just goes to show that rich and poor alike can become victims of their own recklessness, if not stupidity. But we all go out the same way, don't we? I'd rather not see anyone perish in that manner, but humans take all kinds of unnecessary risks, calculating that the "odds" are with them. Think about the guy in a California park so intent on his cellphone while he was walking that he walked right off a cliff and fell to his death! That story made an impression that I've yet to forget.

And what isnt reported on by most news outleta is that a coast guard ship sat watching it not move for 6 hours. Then they try to thrown ropes to tow it AWAY from shore. Some time after is capsizes.
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
20.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 17:26
20.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 17:26
Jun 21, 2023, 17:26
 
WaltSee wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 17:09:
... ...
... too much money often shrinks the brain...;) [see: Bill Gates] Just goes to show that rich and poor alike can become victims of their own recklessness, if not stupidity.
... ...
At least if Bill suffered brain shrinking (heh), he started with one good enough to still shame most of us ?.
But really, I think I must defer to your superior expertise on these subjects.
Avatar 58799
19.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 17:09
19.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 17:09
Jun 21, 2023, 17:09
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:26:
Boat full of migrants capsized, dozens dead: barely mentioned on NPR, let alone anywhere else.

Boat with handful of rich twats missing: all over news for days.

I don't get people trying to start class conflicts over two separate tragedies. The illegal immigrant boat was packed to the gills with people, far exceeding any reasonable safety parameters. That it capsized was hardly surprising (I saw an image of the migrant boat before capsizing--there didn't appear to be a single open square foot onboard that a person wasn't standing in.) The submersible had all the safety built in that humans could engineer, but it may not have been enough. I hope by some miracle they can get them out of there somehow. Let's hope that as many people as possible are rescued from both tragedies. The migrants took a big chance, being packed like sardines on the illegal migrant boat. The people on the submersible paid ludicrous amounts of money just to take a fabulously risky dive for little rational purpose except for maybe "bragging rights"--which is hardly rational--too much money often shrinks the brain...;) [see: Bill Gates] Just goes to show that rich and poor alike can become victims of their own recklessness, if not stupidity. But we all go out the same way, don't we? I'd rather not see anyone perish in that manner, but humans take all kinds of unnecessary risks, calculating that the "odds" are with them. Think about the guy in a California park so intent on his cellphone while he was walking that he walked right off a cliff and fell to his death! That story made an impression that I've yet to forget.
It is well known that I cannot err--and so, if you should happen across an error in anything I have written you can be absolutely sure that *I* did not write it!...;)
Avatar 16008
18.
 
Earth, Kiss, and Fire
Jun 21, 2023, 16:36
18.
Earth, Kiss, and Fire Jun 21, 2023, 16:36
Jun 21, 2023, 16:36
 
I'm too lazy to actually send in a link, but this music mashup is too good to miss...

Media
17.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 15:49
17.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 15:49
Jun 21, 2023, 15:49
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 13:46:
ERCOT can fuck off and die. They've known for more than thirty years that they needed to increase line resiliency and power generation resiliency. They were given money to do so. They pocketed the cash and paid lip service. Power drops, whatever, I have a generator for the house.

Texas has the worst reserve capacity of any state or region - even worse than California which is stymied by lacking enough generation capacity within the state to begin with and importing a significant amount.

Texas made a decision decades ago to deregulate electricity.

In a regulated environment, the utility is required to maintain sufficient reserve capacity to handle weather events, maintain its fleet of generators, and face strict scrutiny and pushback over its rate cases for any proposed increases to rates charged to customers. In return, the regulated utility is allowed to make a modest profit.

By deregulating, Texas "introduced competition" by adding an extra layer of profit-seeking entities (electricity resellers) while still allowing the operator(s) of the generators to continue making profits. The idea is that consumers will somehow "pay less" by purchasing electricity from a reseller that is buying electricity from a generation company rather than buying it directly from the generation company as one would do in a regulated environment. Because competition.

Obviously, the more layers one adds of profit-seeking entities, the more expensive something becomes. To get around that and to make it seem like prices are somehow falling and benefiting customers, Texas chose to significantly reduce requirements for reserve capacity (which costs money to maintain) and for unit upgrades and maintenance. So Texans have perhaps been paying less than under a regulated environment but they are also getting less reliability in a "just good enough" environment. And when extreme events happen like the Texas power crisis a couple years ago, they can pass on the additional costs of providing subpar service to the customers in amortized rates stretching for decades to come.

EIA figures comparing Reserve Generating Capacity by state and region: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=6510

Texas Comptroller report on ERCOT's Reserve Capacity which aligns with the older EIA figures: https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2020/august/ercot.php
16.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:59
16.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:59
Jun 21, 2023, 14:59
 
I been seeing the "Man fell from Grand Canyon Skywalk" thing for a couple of days now, I have yet to see anything indicating how it happened or if it might have been a suicide.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
15.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:56
15.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:56
Jun 21, 2023, 14:56
 
Wasn't Abbott or someone else crowing about how well the Texas power grid was doing recently?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
14.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:35
14.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:35
Jun 21, 2023, 14:35
 
Nonstop coverage of the sub mission but almost zero news about the UK sub and experts being blocked from helping. They can't even get clearance to go there.

They have a sub which has unique and arguably better location capabilities, can go much deeper, and actually has a winch capable of pulling the other sub back up(which the US one doesn't). Plus a bunch of world experts with extensive experience in the region.

Just left spinning their wheels waiting for those in charge to finally pull their heads out of their backsides...

Not that the news media these days are a joke or anything...

This comment was edited on Jun 21, 2023, 14:52.
13.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:29
13.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:29
Jun 21, 2023, 14:29
 
Texas sounds worse than a third world country.
12.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:10
12.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:10
Jun 21, 2023, 14:10
 
Quboid wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 13:56:
How long will it be until Musk calls a rescuer a paedophile because he's bitter about his plan being shit?

Ironically he wanted to use a submersible for the cave rescue and now he is saying to use spelunkers for this sub rescue.

Avatar 14675
11.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 14:04
11.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 14:04
Jun 21, 2023, 14:04
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:26:
Boat with handful of rich twats missing: all over news for days.

Rich who got lost at sea trying to gawk at rich that died at sea, in a submersible that is a big piece of c.
Avatar 14675
10.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 13:56
Quboid
 
10.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 13:56
Jun 21, 2023, 13:56
 Quboid
 
The Flying Penguin wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:45:
PHJF wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:26:
Boat full of migrants capsized, dozens dead: barely mentioned on NPR, let alone anywhere else.

Boat with handful of rich twats missing: all over news for days.

LINK

I agree this sub story is getting a ridiculous amount of coverage, but I think that's more to do with the public's fascination, like the kids trapped in the cave in 2018.

The dozens - hundreds? - dead received quite a bit of coverage on this side of the Atlantic but the amount of coverage a submarine full of thrill-seekers is getting is just weird. The main story on BBC News is a live blog of this, why??

How long will it be until Musk calls a rescuer a paedophile because he's bitter about his plan being shit?
Avatar 10439
9.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 13:46
9.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 13:46
Jun 21, 2023, 13:46
 
ERCOT can fuck off and die. They've known for more than thirty years that they needed to increase line resiliency and power generation resiliency. They were given money to do so. They pocketed the cash and paid lip service. Power drops, whatever, I have a generator for the house.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
8.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 13:44
8.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 13:44
Jun 21, 2023, 13:44
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:32:
In fairness, boats of migrants have been capsizing for many years now.

This.

Once is a tragedy. Repeated occurrences? Part of the turning of the world. I can't get worked up over people dying that I do not know or have no vested interest in. I also have zero interest in this sub going missing. You take risks, you accept the possible outcomes of assuming those risks.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.

“Man was born free, and he is everywhere in chains” -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Avatar 21247
7.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 12:50
7.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 12:50
Jun 21, 2023, 12:50
 
The destitute migrants are (tragically) dead, more to come.

The trapped submariners time is (maybe) still suspensefully ticking, their suffering extended, could be saved, and rich people is involved ...
Avatar 58799
6.
 
Re: OotB: Called it!
Jun 21, 2023, 12:45
6.
Re: OotB: Called it! Jun 21, 2023, 12:45
Jun 21, 2023, 12:45
 
PHJF wrote on Jun 21, 2023, 12:26:
Boat full of migrants capsized, dozens dead: barely mentioned on NPR, let alone anywhere else.

Boat with handful of rich twats missing: all over news for days.

LINK

I agree this sub story is getting a ridiculous amount of coverage, but I think that's more to do with the public's fascination, like the kids trapped in the cave in 2018.
"Turns out I’m 'woke.' All along, I thought I was just compassionate, kind, and good at history. "
Avatar 22380
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