Talutha wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 23:18:
Apple runs the largest gaming platform in the world, they have a very well built gaming API in Metal that you can easily port things to. I'm not sure what else you all really want them to do. The barriers have been lowered for years and they're making a crap ton of money doing it. They even run a very cheap subscription service where microtransactions aren't allowed and they fund games that are being developed for it. Now I'm not saying they're GREAT for gaming as big AAA games don't come to the platforms(although some do like X-Com and Divinity), but they do about as much as I see Valve doing. Creating a platform and trying to push things along with hardware. The only other thing I could reasonably see them doing is taking the Epic route and purchasing exclusives for their platform but according to this article from 2001 they make more from gaming than Microsoft, Nintendo, Activision and Sony combined so really there is no incentive there and if they did that we would be all over them for being anti-consumer.

I think you have NO IDEA how big Steam platform currently is.

Silent Bob wrote on Jun 6, 2023, 07:47:

Ant wrote on Jun 6, 2023, 01:42:
Didn't John Carmack showing off his Quake 3 in Macs.

Carmack actually convinced Steve to support OpenGL over something proprietary. That decision also paved the way for Steam on Macs. It’s unfortunate that Apple didn’t follow suit when they chose Metal over Vulkan. That’s a big reason why Valve isn’t making much of an effort to support Apple silicon these days.

Boo. Apple blew it. But it's not too late. They can do this. Did anyone try computer gaming with macOS' Bootcamp with Windows in Intel Macs? If so, then how was it? It's too bad the new Macs can't do this due to Windows licensing.

Talutha wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 23:18:
Apple runs the largest gaming platform in the world, they have a very well built gaming API in Metal that you can easily port things to. I'm not sure what else you all really want them to do. The barriers have been lowered for years and they're making a crap ton of money doing it. They even run a very cheap subscription service where microtransactions aren't allowed and they fund games that are being developed for it. Now I'm not saying they're GREAT for gaming as big AAA games don't come to the platforms(although some do like X-Com and Divinity), but they do about as much as I see Valve doing. Creating a platform and trying to push things along with hardware. The only other thing I could reasonably see them doing is taking the Epic route and purchasing exclusives for their platform but according to this article from 2001 they make more from gaming than Microsoft, Nintendo, Activision and Sony combined so really there is no incentive there and if they did that we would be all over them for being anti-consumer.

You should use the sarcasm tag or something, because the sarcasm in what you wrote is very hard to pick up in text. If you are not being sarcastic... then why did you make claims like "Apple runs the largest gaming platform in the world" and then quote an article over 20 years old?

Apple just dips its toes into gaming once in awhile but they are never serious so safe to ignore this stuff. Apple Arcade is actually pretty decent now if you get it included with the Apple One thingie.

Don't hold your breath. Valve's Newell talks about all he did to try--in vain--to get Apple to update its OpenGL version, uselessly, back when Newell was in a breathless panic about his erroneous assumptions that Microsoft was going to dump gaming API support in Windows, when Win10 debuted. I knew better than that and was surprised that Newell panicked like he did and tried to embrace Apple! Well, that was years ago, and Valve and Newell know better, now, as he has talked about often. Buy a Mac for gaming if you want, but be prepared to wait for years for a port, if it ever comes, that is. Often the ports never materialize. Same thing happened with the Amiga years ago, my former platform of choice. Ask someone why he wants a Mac for gaming and be prepared for an answer like "It just works", or some other bull. It's kind of sad.

No Vulkan support, no support for third party GPUs, no talk of VRR, nor any low latency technologies like Reflex, no talk of competitive gaming, high framerate gaming, ray tracing or other modern tech, etc. Their integrated GPUs still have terrible performance. I don't see any chance to stick my RTX 4070FE into an M2 Mac anytime soon.

Total waste of time even reading or thinking about macOS and gaming in the same sentence.

Metal doesn't support fundamental BASIC features (Depth Boundary, and Shader Distance Culling) of Vulkan so MoltenVK can at best be a bandaid in that regard. When you work with porting studios (from Win DX11/DX12 <> Vulkan) you often hear that Linux version is FAR easier to make work and make run really well than Mac version. You can not easily port DX12 games to Metal either because of this.

Maybe that will change with this new push.

Ant wrote on Jun 6, 2023, 01:42:
Didn't John Carmack showing off his Quake 3 in Macs.

Carmack actually convinced Steve to support OpenGL over something proprietary. That decision also paved the way for Steam on Macs. It’s unfortunate that Apple didn’t follow suit when they chose Metal over Vulkan. That’s a big reason why Valve isn’t making much of an effort to support Apple silicon these days.

Wow Mac users will get to play more than Zork, maybe.

Silent Bob wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 23:34:

Jivaro wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 20:57:
Every 7-10 years I hear this "Apple is going to be taking gaming seriosly" and then nothing changes, and 7-10 years goes by...rinse repeat.

Well Steve had very little interest in gaming. Tim doesn’t seem to be any better. But if their new headset is the future for them, they would be foolish to overlook the potential that games, and not just mobile games, have to drive sales.

But first, Apple needs to get their heads out of their asses and start supporting Vulkan. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

Didn't John Carmack showing off his Quake 3 in Macs. If so, then it's too bad there weren't more of those! Bah to Apple Arcade and iOS gaming! Bring more NATIVE games to Macs. Let's get some computer competitions with Windows and Linux!

Silent Bob wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 23:34:

Jivaro wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 20:57:
Every 7-10 years I hear this "Apple is going to be taking gaming seriosly" and then nothing changes, and 7-10 years goes by...rinse repeat.

Well Steve had very little interest in gaming. Tim doesn’t seem to be any better. But if their new headset is the future for them, they would be foolish to overlook the potential that games, and not just mobile games, have to drive sales.

But first, Apple needs to get their heads out of their asses and start supporting Vulkan. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

+1 for Vulkan. This is making good progress and Proton is even a possibility I think:
https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK

Jivaro wrote on Jun 5, 2023, 20:57:
Every 7-10 years I hear this "Apple is going to be taking gaming seriosly" and then nothing changes, and 7-10 years goes by...rinse repeat.

Well Steve had very little interest in gaming. Tim doesn’t seem to be any better. But if their new headset is the future for them, they would be foolish to overlook the potential that games, and not just mobile games, have to drive sales.

But first, Apple needs to get their heads out of their asses and start supporting Vulkan. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening anytime soon.

Apple runs the largest gaming platform in the world, they have a very well built gaming API in Metal that you can easily port things to. I'm not sure what else you all really want them to do. The barriers have been lowered for years and they're making a crap ton of money doing it. They even run a very cheap subscription service where microtransactions aren't allowed and they fund games that are being developed for it. Now I'm not saying they're GREAT for gaming as big AAA games don't come to the platforms(although some do like X-Com and Divinity), but they do about as much as I see Valve doing. Creating a platform and trying to push things along with hardware. The only other thing I could reasonably see them doing is taking the Epic route and purchasing exclusives for their platform but according to this article from 2001 they make more from gaming than Microsoft, Nintendo, Activision and Sony combined so really there is no incentive there and if they did that we would be all over them for being anti-consumer.

Every 7-10 years I hear this "Apple is going to be taking gaming seriosly" and then nothing changes, and 7-10 years goes by...rinse repeat.

ports of ports, apple market is too small, where it is not worth developing viruses, can't see that gaming would have greater success

4k 120Hz "w/Maximum Ultra Graphics Settings" running @300FPS HDR Visuals on ALL games, coming soon to a mac near you.