Acleacius wrote on Jun 2, 2023, 09:20:

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:32:

Acleacius wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:21:
While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

Why? There's no point in rotating the camera as the maps are designed to be viewed from a specific angle. It's like getting mad that you can't rotate the camera in Path of Exile or Synthetik 2.

And I think I got loot that wasn't for my class like...2 times during the server slam, hardly an issue.

Wait, having the 3rd Dimension is problematic.
Holy crap, Path of Exile a game I played 10 years ago for about a month is still without a 3rd Dimension.
Synthetik 2 sounds like upgraded Alternative Milk or a Racing Oil, or maybe it can be used as both.
I'm not mad, your mad.

Yes, your nonsensical ravings are certifiably loony at this point.

Verno wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 10:52:

Acleacius wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:21:
While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

No you can't rotate the camera, it's a fixed perspective. It sometimes pulls out automatically for battles and cinematics but that's it. The videos don't really do the game justice IMO, there was an open beta by the way. Big difference between watching on Youtube and playing it in your native resolution with the settings up. The cash shop is all cosmetics and easily ignored, like most other ARPGs. Always online is mildly annoying but the Diablo formula is intact and still very enjoyable.

It's not perfect but it's definitely Worth A Buy

Actually that's the best thing I've heard about D4 is the Loot.
Hack and Slash has been a plague on Humanity since it's inception by giving players complete trash loot.

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:32:

Acleacius wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:21:
While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

Why? There's no point in rotating the camera as the maps are designed to be viewed from a specific angle. It's like getting mad that you can't rotate the camera in Path of Exile or Synthetik 2.

And I think I got loot that wasn't for my class like...2 times during the server slam, hardly an issue.

Wait, having the 3rd Dimension is problematic.
Holy crap, Path of Exile a game I played 10 years ago for about a month is still without a 3rd Dimension.
Synthetik 2 sounds like upgraded Alternative Milk or a Racing Oil, or maybe it can be used as both.
I'm not mad, your mad.

El Pit wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 13:00:

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 11:44:
Any secondary mission you join the kills are shared, so it doesn't matter, you still gain progress in the mission..so yes, overblown.

By "shared" you are saying that they are shared in a party, right? Because I did not get any kills for the many monsters slaughtered by the OP guys running around. Right? And I had no chance to kill more than one at a time because those high level guys were trying hard to not let anyone else kill them. Which makes this terrible MMO mechanic a game killer IMO.

Hmm? From what I remember in beta you gain XP from all kills within a large radius of you and other players, it's very generous like almost two screens and it's not dependent on being in a party. You get bonus experience if you're in a party. I didn't have any issues with mob credit in quests either but to be fair I wasn't looking for it. IIRC you can also reset your instance by just going to town with a portal and going back, it takes like 20 seconds tops and you won't be with the same players.

With respect, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. The online underpinnings are mildly annoying but not game breaking. The only time it was ever a real issue for me was in the world boss due to under level players joining, wasting a slot and not understanding how to revive or avoid the bosses moves.

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 11:44:
Any secondary mission you join the kills are shared, so it doesn't matter, you still gain progress in the mission..so yes, overblown.

By "shared" you are saying that they are shared in a party, right? Because I did not get any kills for the many monsters slaughtered by the OP guys running around. Right? And I had no chance to kill more than one at a time because those high level guys were trying hard to not let anyone else kill them. Which makes this terrible MMO mechanic a game killer IMO.

El Pit wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 11:32:

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 00:39:

Mr. Tact wrote on May 31, 2023, 22:59:
Well, that knocked it down a couple of notches in my book. I have no need to interact with randos on the internet.

You don't need to, the criticisms here are overblown. You'll see other characters in town and wandering around the world map. Sometimes you'll join them in fights or special challenges around the world, but you don't have to do anything you wouldn't do. ie you fight some monsters and get the loot.

Even with the world boss, I thought it was actually a nice change to be fighting a gigantic monster with other players. Dunno about low level players, because I only played in the Server Slam that limited us to level 20, but the biggests issues I had were 1. Players not understanding you can resurrect dead allies (So they don't incur damage to their equipment, and 2. bosses being just gigantic pools of HP attached to attacks that can kill you in one hit. This made the battle more of a grind than something actually fun.

Overblown... Yes, it is fun to not be able to kill some monsters for a (secondary) mission because some high level idiots are killing all of those on sight so that you can log off or do something else in the game.

NO, THANK YOU.

Which is a shame. They have improved the gameplay itself a lot, the graphics are top notch, the atmosphere is great, the story starts well... But this MMO bullshit live service game terror is just bad for gaming.

Any secondary mission you join the kills are shared, so it doesn't matter, you still gain progress in the mission..so yes, overblown.

Razumen wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 00:39:

Mr. Tact wrote on May 31, 2023, 22:59:
Well, that knocked it down a couple of notches in my book. I have no need to interact with randos on the internet.

You don't need to, the criticisms here are overblown. You'll see other characters in town and wandering around the world map. Sometimes you'll join them in fights or special challenges around the world, but you don't have to do anything you wouldn't do. ie you fight some monsters and get the loot.

Even with the world boss, I thought it was actually a nice change to be fighting a gigantic monster with other players. Dunno about low level players, because I only played in the Server Slam that limited us to level 20, but the biggests issues I had were 1. Players not understanding you can resurrect dead allies (So they don't incur damage to their equipment, and 2. bosses being just gigantic pools of HP attached to attacks that can kill you in one hit. This made the battle more of a grind than something actually fun.

Overblown... Yes, it is fun to not be able to kill some monsters for a (secondary) mission because some high level idiots are killing all of those on sight so that you can log off or do something else in the game.

NO, THANK YOU.

Which is a shame. They have improved the gameplay itself a lot, the graphics are top notch, the atmosphere is great, the story starts well... But this MMO bullshit live service game terror is just bad for gaming.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:21:
While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

No you can't rotate the camera, it's a fixed perspective. It sometimes pulls out automatically for battles and cinematics but that's it. The videos don't really do the game justice IMO, there was an open beta by the way. Big difference between watching on Youtube and playing it in your native resolution with the settings up. The cash shop is all cosmetics and easily ignored, like most other ARPGs. Always online is mildly annoying but the Diablo formula is intact and still very enjoyable.

It's not perfect but it's definitely Worth A Buy

The camera doesn't bother me any, but I haven't been impressed by the small amount of video I have watched. I can tell they were trying be less cartoonish and more "real" but frankly, from what I've seen they missed badly.

Acleacius wrote on Jun 1, 2023, 09:21:
While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

Why? There's no point in rotating the camera as the maps are designed to be viewed from a specific angle. It's like getting mad that you can't rotate the camera in Path of Exile or Synthetik 2.

And I think I got loot that wasn't for my class like...2 times during the server slam, hardly an issue.

While I only looked at Ars's review, I didn't see any mention of the player camera and from the screenshots it looks like it could still be 2D.
I didn't play D3 and don't plan to play D4 but, for all that is holy, please tell me blizzard actually uses a 3D camera now days.
I.e. can you spin the camera around behind things.

I really miss the thrill of getting loot that has nothing to do with my class, and of course it has a Cash Shop and of course it's Online Only.

Yeah, still more than I care for. However, as long as I am safe from any unwanted PvP action it might be tolerable.

Mr. Tact wrote on May 31, 2023, 22:59:
Well, that knocked it down a couple of notches in my book. I have no need to interact with randos on the internet.

You don't need to, the criticisms here are overblown. You'll see other characters in town and wandering around the world map. Sometimes you'll join them in fights or special challenges around the world, but you don't have to do anything you wouldn't do. ie you fight some monsters and get the loot.

Even with the world boss, I thought it was actually a nice change to be fighting a gigantic monster with other players. Dunno about low level players, because I only played in the Server Slam that limited us to level 20, but the biggests issues I had were 1. Players not understanding you can resurrect dead allies (So they don't incur damage to their equipment, and 2. bosses being just gigantic pools of HP attached to attacks that can kill you in one hit. This made the battle more of a grind than something actually fun.

Well, that knocked it down a couple of notches in my book. I have no need to interact with randos on the internet.

Mr. Tact wrote on May 31, 2023, 16:58:

El Pit wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:13:
I liked the beta a lot but HATED the shared world.

Despite having a moderate interest in the game, I have not been paying close attention. Shared world? So, like you can run into random people while clearing an area? Or is it more like Path of Exile, where the only shared areas are the hubs/cities/whatevers?

It is fully online, random public lobby - on the entire openworld map and all towns - only some very few quest areas are excluded from this. The world bosses are also shared, so if you come late to the fight you get to wait.

Mr. Tact wrote on May 31, 2023, 16:58:

El Pit wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:13:
I liked the beta a lot but HATED the shared world.

Despite having a moderate interest in the game, I have not been paying close attention. Shared world? So, like you can run into random people while clearing an area? Or is it more like Path of Exile, where the only shared areas are the hubs/cities/whatevers?

Only dungeons are instances. The overworld is one huge open shared world including the city hubs. You will frequently encounter other players who are e.g. participating in small local events in a certain area. The monsters will scale to each one's level, i.e. even if you are level 5 and the other dude/dudette level 25 you can fight in the same event and you will both get rewards appropriate for your respective levels.

El Pit wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:13:
I liked the beta a lot but HATED the shared world.

Despite having a moderate interest in the game, I have not been paying close attention. Shared world? So, like you can run into random people while clearing an area? Or is it more like Path of Exile, where the only shared areas are the hubs/cities/whatevers?

I was skeptical after Diablo Immortal, but after playing the beta for quite a bit, I feel that this has captured something that Diablo and Diablo 2 had that Diablo 3 was lacking. So while I won't be playing early, I will be playing on official launch with friends. Coop play is really easy in this game and you can't group up immediately.

Verno wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:20:

El Pit wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:13:
I liked the beta a lot but HATED the shared world. I hated it like a root canal OP. Just yuch!

I thought I wouldn't care but I have to admit it's kind of annoying encountering BluntSmokerXxX420 when you're sort of immersed in the world

They really did underpin in the games design in such a way that you can't escape it unfortunately. The world boss was a bit infuriating, we never got it down because they kept filling our instance with low level people who just died repeatedly and didn't contribute enough damage to overcome the timer.

Pretty much my view on it as well, the open beta was an abysmal example of a MMO with the WORST design choices of the century, and you can't toggle it off, was an auto-skip for me. Just the usual GaaS garbage.

El Pit wrote on May 31, 2023, 11:13:
I liked the beta a lot but HATED the shared world. I hated it like a root canal OP. Just yuch!

I thought I wouldn't care but I have to admit it's kind of annoying encountering BluntSmokerXxX420 when you're sort of immersed in the world

They really did underpin in the games design in such a way that you can't escape it unfortunately. The world boss was a bit infuriating, we never got it down because they kept filling our instance with low level people who just died repeatedly and didn't contribute enough damage to overcome the timer.