MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on May 28, 2023, 15:19:
Ugh, I hate videos like this. No telling if any of this shit-flinging has any basis in fact. So detrimental to society, videos like this, because people just immediately start raging and break out the torches and pitch forks.

He's just talking about his past experiences, he's free to do that, and it's perfectly fine, it has no detrimental effect on society at all.

Mob mentality isn't caused by videos like this, it's caused by immature mindsets and simplistic worldviews.

Not sure who your referring too, pretty sure we all know it happened 30 years ago and some of us were around back then.
It effected Tim so much, it took him 30 years to talk about it. So I'm pretty sure, his trauma is real and he opened the discussion.
I certainly hope he has changed, this conversation has only been going on 24 hours.

Not sure why we need evidence of current behavior and intent, to discuss and debate what happened.
Actually it would be great if you have some evidence then we can talk about it.

If this is about my hesitancy in future of purchasing, I'm pretty sure it's ok for me to decide for myself.
I didn't say outright no to future purchases. Hell, I often exclude participation with people or behavior I don't support.
I haven't seen a tom cruse movie for 30 years (iirc) since finding out he is the messiah of a cult who gets half his income.
I'm not supporting, any piece of shit cult, that enslaves men, women and children, while taking their money.
I haven't played or bought an 'ea' game since finding out about the slavish conditions, from that piece of shit ceo .

Also, did you notice you seem to be exaggerating a bit, no one has talked about slapping him.
But I'm pretty sure mocking him and talking about how this story fits into the world on many us, he is fair game.
He's a public figure and if what you believe is true 'that he has changed' he would probably agree with us!

This comment was edited on May 29, 2023, 00:06.

You people are discussing this like it happened 2 weeks ago FFS. Several DECADES have past. Odds are both Tim and Brian are very different people in mindset, mgt style among other aspects. Sure that was a bad call on Brian's part, but do you have and evidence he has or is going to pull the same stunt again now or recent past? I don't and I doubt he will as, hindsight is 20/20 and I'd be shocked if he doesn't have some regrets. We all change and attacking either of their actions of something that happened decades ago is silly and irrational. How many of you if I dug in your past from 10, 20, 30 yrs ago I couldn't find something to slap you upside the head with? How fair would that be to you? Unless you are showing the same tendencies as back then, then not very. Same with both of these guys.

Silent Bob wrote on May 28, 2023, 12:42:
I haven’t worked in the game industry but I’ve worked in tech for over 25 years and have been employed by some large and very well known hardware companies.

1. Tech is a rough industry. I’ve lost my job twice under questionable circumstances and I expect it will likely happen again as a now older worker if I stick around long enough.

2. Game development is worse than tech in general. Especially when it comes to job security.

3. I’m not defending Brian Fargo but I also don’t think he deserves to be singled out. That type of behavior is unfortunately much more common than it should be. Read up on the history of id Software as an example.

4. The world isn’t black and white. Don’t rush to judgement until you’ve heard both sides of the story.

Sounds like a tough situation and industry hope things get better.

If you mean me, then you must misunderstand. I use a hypocrisy filter on everything.
Even though I'm not a doctor, I believe the Hippocratic Oath is one of the if not the highest level of morality in civilization atm.

We are talking about brian atm, not every conversation is about him, but he is also not above criticism.
I call myself an idiot or stupid all the time, oh shit I forgot my mask before going outside, "I'm such an idiot".

"No one knows everything or can do everything" but there are people who act like or claim they can, you know "control issues and narcissism".

Ugh, I hate videos like this. No telling if any of this shit-flinging has any basis in fact. So detrimental to society, videos like this, because people just immediately start raging and break out the torches and pitch forks.

Watched that "Why I Left" video Tim Cain made, brian fargo definitely sounds like an absolute piece of shit.

I haven’t worked in the game industry but I’ve worked in tech for over 25 years and have been employed by some large and very well known hardware companies.

1. Tech is a rough industry. I’ve lost my job twice under questionable circumstances and I expect it will likely happen again as a now older worker if I stick around long enough.

2. Game development is worse than tech in general. Especially when it comes to job security.

3. I’m not defending Brian Fargo but I also don’t think he deserves to be singled out. That type of behavior is unfortunately much more common than it should be. Read up on the history of id Software as an example.

4. The world isn’t black and white. Don’t rush to judgement until you’ve heard both sides of the story.

This comment was edited on May 28, 2023, 13:10.

Kosumo wrote on May 28, 2023, 04:12:
You write very well.

It's like you made an effort to not capitalise Brain's name.

Why is that?

In case this is serious, as I posted, he is responsible for his words and actions, whether he can conceive or perceive them himself.
I'm not comfortable supporting Sociopathy whether it's known or unknown by the victimizer.
In the past, I've used a "B" when he was trying to save/buy Interplay, after the collapse of Black Isle.

It would be similar to Dunning-Kruger effect, even if brian didn't know he had a problem before he should now.
The magnitude of what seemed to have happened was beyond what any normal person could justify, especially after a bit of cooling down.
According to Tim, he held on to his letter of Resignation for 2 weeks, iirc.

Any person with normal emotional abilities, should have said "oh shit, what happened I just lost a golden egg. Rethink and regroup?".
Iirc, Fallout had as good of reviews as any blockbuster, att. That was before this interaction took place, with the information we have atm.

If brian was really a big "B" he would have already done or said something before this 25 years?
Therefore he's only a brian.

You write very well.

It's like you made an effort to not capitalise Brain's name.

Why is that?

Mullenkamp wrote on May 28, 2023, 01:07:
Tim has quickly become my "seemingly nice person tells tales from his interesting past for the evening" the last couple of weeks

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:
Sure, when I get a chance and a link. But honestly it's about whether Tim was telling the truth and it seems honest.
Under no circumstances should brian have said or done it, no exceptions to this rule, afaik.
Now if you have some justification for brain saying and doing, please do tell.
Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

I find you extremely judgemental; the first thing after I'd seen this video was to ask me "why might Brian have reacted that was", especially as I have a rather positive impression of him (i.e. via their Kickstarter videos)

Maybe facts that played into it - again: these are just my assumptions; of course Brian would need to tell his side of the story at best:

• Interplay was bankrupt in 1998 - since that doesn't happen overnight it's safe to assume that the financial situation was already dire in 1997
• Brian loved games and he founded Interplay because of his love - means he certainly had poured his heart and soul into the company; a company with hundreds or thousands of employees - which would lose their jobs if the company goes out of business; something "good" CEOs would not want
• these circumstances would put enormous pressure on him; at the same time he sees a great game that might potentially ease the financial situation (some sort of savior; at least for a moment - would also explain why he pushed so hard for F2) - but that gets delayed thanks to some bug, and he didn't know who was responsible

Now; it was not good how he reacted but with the probably extreme pressure of a looming bankruptcy - where every month or even week counts - it's certainly not the easiest thing to make only the best decisions... and if he can't even have a chat with the person responsible for the delay that endangers his company; well I even understand that he'd have been rather mad. But it's always easier to judge in hindsight, isn't it?
(also keep in mind that Tim was just a "normal" employee, one of many, so no one that you discuss money or the state of the company with, so if he says "I'm not telling you, just say I'm responsible" than he's at the receiving end of that pressure/anger). Well, again, all speculation until Brian chimes in; maybe he will join Tim with his side of stories, as the channel keeps getting more and more attention... I even hope a bit that it happens

Oh and "if you get a link"? You have Tim's channel-link in the videos, it's the latest one...

Even after i openly asked for other possibilities ? [inconceivable, i do not think that word means what you think it means.]

Those are all real possibilities but it goes to brian's state of mind 'causing his bad decisions'.
They were still bad decisions and behavior, especially considering as Tim mentions 'we were a small team free to work because no one was paying attention to us.'
And they created a Monster win and everyone knew it. Of course brian wanted more, but because of his 'state of mind', he couldn't comprehend it
and thought he could artificially force it.

No one said this made brian a villain, well not in this thread so, it seems possible your referring to something else, somewhere else.
It does give awareness of brian's methodology atm and no one said brian had to be perfect.
I specifically mentioned 'questioning and caution' for myself, and never said it was some unrepentant evil.
brian clearly didn't even have second thoughts after he had a chance to cool down from whatever 'control issues' he was suffering atm.
I personally admire and reward compassion, not sociopathy and everyone is free to make their own choices.

Silent Bob wrote on May 27, 2023, 23:35:

Slashman wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:49:

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:

Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

In what dimension is this a hard fast rule?

Shitting on your peeps is one of the fundamental rules of modern capitalism.

Ahh, well if your capitalist you might not know about the hard fast rule?

Slashman wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:49:

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:

Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

In what dimension is this a hard fast rule? As far as I can see, no one ever seems keen to follow it.

If your trying to be successful, managing your peeps to be happy and exuberant, manifest creativity.
As he mentioned allowed the successful creation of really unique world, especially the humor.

corporatism is nothing more than a soulless virus, both can exist in the same dimension.
it's the Wolf you Feed, rage or compassion.

Money problems turns some people into scumbags. Having a scumbag manager sucks, regardless of what company/industry you work for.

Tim has quickly become my "seemingly nice person tells tales from his interesting past for the evening" the last couple of weeks

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:
Sure, when I get a chance and a link. But honestly it's about whether Tim was telling the truth and it seems honest.
Under no circumstances should brian have said or done it, no exceptions to this rule, afaik.
Now if you have some justification for brain saying and doing, please do tell.
Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

I find you extremely judgemental; the first thing after I'd seen this video was to ask me "why might Brian have reacted that was", especially as I have a rather positive impression of him (i.e. via their Kickstarter videos)

Maybe facts that played into it - again: these are just my assumptions; of course Brian would need to tell his side of the story at best:

• Interplay was bankrupt in 1998 - since that doesn't happen overnight it's safe to assume that the financial situation was already dire in 1997
• Brian loved games and he founded Interplay because of his love - means he certainly had poured his heart and soul into the company; a company with hundreds or thousands of employees - which would lose their jobs if the company goes out of business; something "good" CEOs would not want
• these circumstances would put enormous pressure on him; at the same time he sees a great game that might potentially ease the financial situation (some sort of savior; at least for a moment - would also explain why he pushed so hard for F2) - but that gets delayed thanks to some bug, and he didn't know who was responsible

Now; it was not good how he reacted but with the probably extreme pressure of a looming bankruptcy - where every month or even week counts - it's certainly not the easiest thing to make only the best decisions... and if he can't even have a chat with the person responsible for the delay that endangers his company; well I even understand that he'd have been rather mad. But it's always easier to judge in hindsight, isn't it?
(also keep in mind that Tim was just a "normal" employee, one of many, so no one that you discuss money or the state of the company with, so if he says "I'm not telling you, just say I'm responsible" than he's at the receiving end of that pressure/anger). Well, again, all speculation until Brian chimes in; maybe he will join Tim with his side of stories, as the channel keeps getting more and more attention... I even hope a bit that it happens

Oh and "if you get a link"? You have Tim's channel-link in the videos, it's the latest one...

Love his channel, fascinating insights into one of my childhood fav game developer

Slashman wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:49:

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:

Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

In what dimension is this a hard fast rule?

Shitting on your peeps is one of the fundamental rules of modern capitalism.

Slashman wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:49:

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:
Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

In what dimension is this a hard fast rule?

I made that a rule around here after an especially boisterous Easter.

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 22:45:

Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

In what dimension is this a hard fast rule? As far as I can see, no one ever seems keen to follow it.

Silent Bob wrote on May 27, 2023, 21:32:

Acleacius wrote on May 27, 2023, 20:40:
Now I question my past, inXile game purchases and hesitate on the future.

You should watch Tim’s latest video about nuance. His intention wasn’t to cast Brian Fargo as the villain, just to explain what happens behind the scenes.

Sure, when I get a chance and a link. But honestly it's about whether Tim was telling the truth and it seems honest.
Under no circumstances should brian have said or done it, no exceptions to this rule, afaik.
Now if you have some justification for brain saying and doing, please do tell.
Never shit on your peeps, it's a hard fast rule.

It’s a very cutthroat business. Tim mentioned how Obsidian lost their Fallout New Vegas bonus payment from Bethesda because they had a Metacritic score of 84 instead of 85. Even though Bethesda was in charge of QA and set the release date.

This comment was edited on May 27, 2023, 23:04.