phinn wrote on May 4, 2023, 21:58:
Quake is arguably the most groundbreaking fps of all time, but go ahead and leave it off your HoF list keeping your crappy little museum utterly irrelevent.

Exactly. Don't even mention this POS entity(site) exists if they don't have Quake in it. Barbie? I don't even have to know. I don't want to know.

I remember in 1999 my friends and I were all playing the shit out of some Heroes of Might and Magic 3 in hotseat mode. Like everyday for months.
We played it so much that it inspired one friend who didn't have a PC to convince his parents to get him one.
He got a Hot Wheels themed computer and his sister got a Barbie themed computer... They were actually pretty slick designs/cases too surprisingly, I personally haven't seen anything like that before or since.

Anyways, I was just reminded of that talking about getting young girls into PC gaming... she had to have been like 8 years old or something at the time but was gaming it up everyday because of a Barbie PC

jdreyer wrote on May 5, 2023, 13:37:

Beamer wrote on May 5, 2023, 09:14:

El Pit wrote on May 5, 2023, 04:18:
Guys, do you remember all the fun we had with Barbie Fashion Designer? How it completely changed the industry? How its engine was used for so many great other games like... Uhm... Oh, sorry. Mixed something up here.
Whatever. That museum is definitely not about games that I like. Well, Computer Space maybe despite me never having played it. Adding Quake would have been a no-brainer.

Fun fact: Barbie Fashion Designer outsold Quake, according to most sources.

Not going to dispute Barbie's induction, just going to point out that sales might not be the best metric. In 2007 Transformers outgrossed There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Michael Clayton. I don't think anyone would say Transformers is the better movie.

We're getting into the weeds here, but it wasn't just the sales, according to that article. It was also the impact it had on young girls to get into gaming and in some cases game design, along with some interesting design choices in the game itself.

Also, how dare you besmirch Transformers 2007!? Clearly it was a better written script than either NCFOM or TWBB.

jdreyer wrote on May 5, 2023, 13:37:

Beamer wrote on May 5, 2023, 09:14:

El Pit wrote on May 5, 2023, 04:18:
Guys, do you remember all the fun we had with Barbie Fashion Designer? How it completely changed the industry? How its engine was used for so many great other games like... Uhm... Oh, sorry. Mixed something up here.
Whatever. That museum is definitely not about games that I like. Well, Computer Space maybe despite me never having played it. Adding Quake would have been a no-brainer.

Fun fact: Barbie Fashion Designer outsold Quake, according to most sources.

Not going to dispute Barbie's induction, just going to point out that sales might not be the best metric. In 2007 Transformers outgrossed There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Michael Clayton. I don't think anyone would say Transformers is the better movie.

I agree, and generally use Justin Bieber as a metric to prove the same. I was just really very surprised.

I understand Barbie being there after reading about it, though I was less skeptical than some in the first place. And I get Quake not yet being there. Personally, I don't feel Quake belongs there for its technology (though the Quake Engine, as a separate product, does), nor do I think it belongs there for its gameplay. Both of those felt like expected evolutions, if gameplay was even that. I think Quake belongs for modding. It was the first game to really create an entire ecosystem for modding. Others will certainly point out other games with mods, maybe many mods, or very successful mods, but nothing really competed with what happened with Quake, from hookshots to go-karts to Team Fortress to Action Quake.

Beamer wrote on May 5, 2023, 09:14:

El Pit wrote on May 5, 2023, 04:18:
Guys, do you remember all the fun we had with Barbie Fashion Designer? How it completely changed the industry? How its engine was used for so many great other games like... Uhm... Oh, sorry. Mixed something up here.
Whatever. That museum is definitely not about games that I like. Well, Computer Space maybe despite me never having played it. Adding Quake would have been a no-brainer.

Fun fact: Barbie Fashion Designer outsold Quake, according to most sources.

Not going to dispute Barbie's induction, just going to point out that sales might not be the best metric. In 2007 Transformers outgrossed There Will Be Blood, No Country for Old Men, and Michael Clayton. I don't think anyone would say Transformers is the better movie.

RedEye9 wrote on May 5, 2023, 09:19:
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a42294667/video-game-barbie-fashion-designer
Interesting

Wow, very interesting! Thanks for that, I guess they made the right choice. Being able to print stuff out onto fabric infused paper sounds like a hell of a great idea as a tie-in to the main toy too, my bad for even doubting them at all, lol.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a42294667/video-game-barbie-fashion-designer
Interesting

El Pit wrote on May 5, 2023, 04:18:
Guys, do you remember all the fun we had with Barbie Fashion Designer? How it completely changed the industry? How its engine was used for so many great other games like... Uhm... Oh, sorry. Mixed something up here.
Whatever. That museum is definitely not about games that I like. Well, Computer Space maybe despite me never having played it. Adding Quake would have been a no-brainer.

Fun fact: Barbie Fashion Designer outsold Quake, according to most sources.

But wasn't Quake the first fully 3d modelled FPS? And one of if not the first game to have 3d accelerator support? I'd say it could easily go in as well as Doom.

I think something to bear in mind with a hall of fame curation (as opposed to a yearly award show) is that it's greater value is less in comparing titles against each other, and more drawing attention to the aspects of the art form that the titles in the overall hall of fame represent.

If I look at the nominees; Quake stands head and shoulders above the rest.... and in fact I'd hazard to say the art person doing the nominee announcement arrangement probably thought so too

https://www.museumofplay.org/players-choice-ballot/

BUT what would be the value of Quake *at this time* (and by extension Golden Eye/COD) when there's already Doom (and lesser imho Halo) in the hall of fame - you essentially have two titles about the origin and growth of the first person shooter.

It'll be interesting to see how opinions vary in another 20 or so years as these games become 50 years old - which of them will actually survive a cross generational judgement to become great. ... Will computer space be fundamental, or will it be seen more as an inevitability eclipsed by more significant titles... Or will Doom perhaps be replaced by Quake as a fundamental building block in respect to what a (possibly still) dominant COD owes to Quake... with Halo now relegated to a 2 time (1 and 3) accessibility footnote alongside Golden Eye... Or will they all be forgotten to Fortnite?

After all the top 10 or 100 lists of games that people *like* I think that this Hall of Fame, at this point in time, actually made some very good selections to get people thinking/talking...

Last of Us I don't quite place so high an importance upon personally, despite it being an excellent game. Computer Space I am somewhat ambivalent about. But all four certainly give you something to talk and think about.

Guys, do you remember all the fun we had with Barbie Fashion Designer? How it completely changed the industry? How its engine was used for so many great other games like... Uhm... Oh, sorry. Mixed something up here.
Whatever. That museum is definitely not about games that I like. Well, Computer Space maybe despite me never having played it. Adding Quake would have been a no-brainer.

I thought "Barbie fashion designer" would be looked apon poorly after the hot coffee mod came out?

Well done.

Maybe the games will go into their list of important titles. But they definitely do not fit into my important titles. Computer Space kinda does, for the fact it was such an early forerunner game.

JTW wrote on May 4, 2023, 23:37:

Bubicus wrote on May 4, 2023, 20:50:
Barbie Fashion Designer definitely deserves a Hall of Fame entry. It outsold Quake and Doom in the same yearly sales period. It launched the first wave of girls' games by proving that there was a viable games market for young girls.

+1. I remember when this thing was in the top sellers for far longer than I would have expected. It had an impact.

It's easy to forget that the 'hardcore gaming' crowd don't represent the entire hobby.

I can't think of a better choice for the Hall of Fame.

The Ray Tracing mod is a bear, but it makes the replayability unbelievable.
It's why I broke down and bought an Asus RTX 4090ti TriWindForce 3-slotter.

I'm still upset that they dropped VR support.

Bubicus wrote on May 4, 2023, 20:50:
Barbie Fashion Designer definitely deserves a Hall of Fame entry. It outsold Quake and Doom in the same yearly sales period. It launched the first wave of girls' games by proving that there was a viable games market for young girls.

+1. I remember when this thing was in the top sellers for far longer than I would have expected. It had an impact.

It's easy to forget that the 'hardcore gaming' crowd don't represent the entire hobby.

Quake is arguably the most groundbreaking fps of all time, but go ahead and leave it off your HoF list keeping your crappy little museum utterly irrelevent.

Barbie Fashion Designer definitely deserves a Hall of Fame entry. It outsold Quake and Doom in the same yearly sales period. It launched the first wave of girls' games by proving that there was a viable games market for young girls.

Well, I have no idea how revolutionary Barbie Fashion Designer is, or Computer Space(From 1971 apparently, before my time ) for that matter, but The Last of Us and Wii Sports make sense.

Too bad about Quake and COD4, but recency bias and all that.