Prez wrote on Mar 23, 2023, 00:01:

PropheT wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 21:19:

Prez wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 12:30:
We're in a world now where online only games are very risky.

Are we? Online-only games aren't exactly a rarity, and they aren't a more notable issue in your online security presence than anything else. Your phone is far more vulnerable and breaching it gives anything someone robbing you for data would want, and without something like FIFA points most games aren't worth targeting.

If you're not comfortable with those services definitely don't use them, but I doubt the vast majority of people are worried about it at all. They don't really have any reason to even be worried.

I think you misunderstood. I meant risky insofar as how many live service and online-only games languish or die because (at least in part) specifically because of the game's online mandates. For every Destiny 2 there's 10 'Anthem's' and 'Avengers'. They're risky for the publisher, not the user. If the mistake was because I wasn't clear enough then apologies.

I'd consider them risky to the players as well (unless they're F2P) as any forced online game not getting traction means that the players who paid risk having paid for a game they can't ever enjoy again. And sometimes a game fails due to outside factors, like another game grabbing all the (positive) media attention due to a random meme/endorsement/whatever.

PropheT wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 21:19:

Prez wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 12:30:
We're in a world now where online only games are very risky.

Are we? Online-only games aren't exactly a rarity, and they aren't a more notable issue in your online security presence than anything else. Your phone is far more vulnerable and breaching it gives anything someone robbing you for data would want, and without something like FIFA points most games aren't worth targeting.

If you're not comfortable with those services definitely don't use them, but I doubt the vast majority of people are worried about it at all. They don't really have any reason to even be worried.

I think you misunderstood. I meant risky insofar as how many live service and online-only games languish or die because (at least in part) specifically because of the game's online mandates. For every Destiny 2 there's 10 'Anthem's' and 'Avengers'. They're risky for the publisher, not the user. If the mistake was because I wasn't clear enough then apologies.

Prez wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 12:30:
We're in a world now where online only games are very risky.

Are we? Online-only games aren't exactly a rarity, and they aren't a more notable issue in your online security presence than anything else. Your phone is far more vulnerable and breaching it gives anything someone robbing you for data would want, and without something like FIFA points most games aren't worth targeting.

If you're not comfortable with those services definitely don't use them, but I doubt the vast majority of people are worried about it at all. They don't really have any reason to even be worried.

Remember, butt bethesda's last scandal with Arkane?
Prey, they forced Arkane to use the name of a previous game with no ties to the original, when they could have easily used any other name.
Why does, butt bethesda constantly take advantage Arkane and customers?

Simple solution: collect data points like falling off ladders into a log file as the player plays the game. At game close, bring up a window asking "We collected data on your play session and would like to upload the play log to confirm quality assurance [insert mumbo jumbo here]. Do you consent? Yes No" and if player hits Yes, an internet connection is established and the log file is uploaded.

or heck just ask players, do you consent to the developer collecting play-time logs once every two weeks for QA purposes? No need for 24/7, to-the-second online logging. Sheesh.

If it's, allegedly, only "telemetry collection", then there is absolutely no need for an always online connection. Either he's lying or that is some shitty metrics collection.

In any case, it isn't like this isn't something that can be completely blocked at the firewall level.

"He explains the online requirement is intended to collect metrics on the player experience"

you data sniffing whores.. It's literally all these fucking robuts care about.

fuck off.

RogueSix wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 14:37:
The telemetry excuse is some extremely weak ass weird shit. As someone already said, they could have easily made that an opt-in (not opt-out!) choice when first launching the game or somewhere in the settings menu.
Oh well, 'tis another good reason to give this game a hard pass - for now, at least. If the reviews are unanimously positive, I might check it out again when the GOTY goes on sale for $9.99 one fine day. Until then: Fuck you and your spyware, Arkane.

I still think it has to be anti-cheat if you can take characters between online and off, right? Even if that isn't what was said.

To your point, if you have everyone that is online report back, or even do it opt-in, you get the same data. A representative sample is fairly small. Let's say the game sells 10M units. In order to get a 99% confidence level with a 1% margin for error, they only need 17k people reporting back. It's a bit messier with hardware issues, as everyone is somewhat different, but not enough to mandate online to see what is and is not working.

How many people wouldn't be online while playing? 1%? 5%? Definitely 1% if you have the ability to report when online. If you make it opt-out, how many would still be opted in? 75%? 85%? If you make it opt-in, you're probably down to 20%, which is still enough.

oh well. plenty of other things to spend my money on.

next!

Ideally we'd never have to deal with either online-only singleplayer bullshit or Denuvo, but I'll take Denuvo every time. It will either be removed by the developers after some time or just cracked.

Oh, and I am going to assume that those of you surprised by businessmen insulting our intelligence in a press release or public interview are kind of young and/or new to this.

The telemetry excuse is some extremely weak ass weird shit. As someone already said, they could have easily made that an opt-in (not opt-out!) choice when first launching the game or somewhere in the settings menu.
Oh well, 'tis another good reason to give this game a hard pass - for now, at least. If the reviews are unanimously positive, I might check it out again when the GOTY goes on sale for $9.99 one fine day. Until then: Fuck you and your spyware, Arkane.

Be nice if we weren't treated like idiots and just told the truth. Cause we are greedy and are going to make the paying customers suffer for someone who might try to play by pirating our game.

eRe4s3r wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 11:20:
Yeah, I wonder how everyone else does it... oh wait.. they make telemetry OPTIONAL - wtf kind of argument is that even. Do these people even play other games? Never heard of such an absurd excuse to be honest.

That is the answer. I can understand, but not agree with, a desire for more data from a business point of view, but make it optional.

that doesn't even come close to squaring things and I'm sure it's not Arkane, butt bethesda
Not to mention they are still using denuvo

I seem to recall a similar excuse from the developers of W40K: Inquisitor - and when I bought their game, I even couldn't play it because server authentication is required before you reach the main menu screen. And it failed on every attempt. Judging by the Steam forums around the time, other players hadn't been able to connect in weeks Consequently, it became the first and only Steam refund I've requested to date.

This comment was edited on Mar 22, 2023, 13:41.

We're in a world now where online only games are very risky. Otherwise they would do like every other dev was doing 5 years ago and just tell us to deal with it. Well I'm not going to deal with it. I just won't play it. But that's always been my thing - nothing really new there.

They don't need game telemetry to know if players are consistently falling off ladders (or other crap is broken in the game), YouTube exists. 1000 content creators will have videos up about it before they can even decipher the telemetry report.

Tom wrote on Mar 22, 2023, 11:31:
Yup, the spin is strong with that one.

He's basically just saying that he wants people to pay for the privilege of testing the game for them.

Alternatively that the development team is so rubbish at their tasks, they can't figure out stuff everyone else has done for decades.

Or both.

Yup, the spin is strong with that one.

Yeah, I wonder how everyone else does it... oh wait.. they make telemetry OPTIONAL - wtf kind of argument is that even. Do these people even play other games? Never heard of such an absurd excuse to be honest.