IgWannA wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 14:36:
€1859 for a 4090 is an absolute bargain... not! The top-of-the-line GTX 1090 Ti was $500 (about €500) when it was released in 2016.

All still too expensive. I'll keep using my old MSI NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti (N750TI-2GD5/OC; 2 GB of VRAM) & EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT PCIE video card (512 MB of VRAM).

yuastnav wrote on Dec 6, 2022, 05:28:
Isn't their open source support half-arsed anyway? I remember reading that a lot of people complained that they just released their code without any revision history and there were some speculations about the reason, namely that they moved a lot of the code into the firmware of the chips, which is still closed, so it wouldn't be exposed.

Yes and they want to move toward on-board firmware blobs. But it's Nvidia. Arrogance and stupidity are inherent in the name.

Ozmodan wrote on Dec 6, 2022, 16:23:
Nvidia fanatics like you crack me up. A friend has a 4090 in his PC and it heats the room and them some. He will have to add some additional air conditioning in the summer in that room.

Oh, we are so desperate now that we have to make up imaginary friends with RTX 4090s? Hahaha, cute .

Look, I own a RTX 4090 so contrary to you, I have first hand experience and I have also read the reviews. Your "friend" (if he/she/it even exists) must have bought the shittiest custom model on the planet or a plain broken card.

It has been well established by the reviews, and I can also attest to this from 1st hand experience, that the RTX 4090 due the sheer size of its heatsink + triple fans is a very cool running card. It is pretty much "ice cool" compared to my previous RTX 3090.

My RTX 3090 was the MSI GamingX Trio and my RTX 4090 is the MSI SuprimX. It is incredible how cool the RTX 4090 runs (4K@144Hz). In many games it stays in the 50°Cs, low 60°Cs. The max temperatures I have seen are ~74°C.

However, I'm using the silent BIOS so the card is whisper quiet at the same time. If I activated the performance BIOS, it would run even cooler.
Honestly, the RTX 4090 is the best and most amazing card I have ever had. It runs super-silent and pumps out an incredible level of performance.

Heat also slowly destroys electronics, I will take an AMD any day in the week. There is such a thing as overkill and the 4000 series is major overkill for today's games.

Yep. Heat is sooooo dangerous but only for nVidia users, of course . It is no problem, of course, when AMD is known for running hot and slow . Heat is also sooo dangerous that AMD has slapped a temperature target of 95°C on ZEN 4 Fryzen CPUs because they really want those mass RMAs. Yup. Makes sense.

The desperation is getting more and more ridiculous. If you were informed, you would know that the RTX 4090 does not have a heat problem at all (except for the garbage card of your imaginary "friend").
In reality many reviewers have said that the RTX 4090 cooling design is unnecessarily monstrous and that the board partners should have traded size for higher temps.

High temps are generally absolutely no problem for modern hardware like CPUs and GPUs or SSD controllers. They have throttling and shutdown safeguards with huge tolerances. It's a complete non-issue. 3Dfx Voodoo cards had a max temp of something like 120°C back in the day and many of them still work to this day.

Finally, would the RTX 4000 series also be overkill if a RTX 4090 would sell for $499? Well? Come on. Stop kidding yourself. You are only salty because of the high prices.
As a guy with a 4K display at 144Hz, I would say that the RTX 3090 was good but RTX 4090 is another level. At that res and refresh rate, especially with RT, you need all the juice you can get.

But since you are going to buy AMD any day of the week anyway, I'm not even sure why you have such strong feelings against nVidia? I wish you the best of luck with your AMD card and I think it is great that you want to support them. They need every sale they can get at their all-time low market share at the moment.

RogueSix wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 20:27:

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 18:49:

RogueSix wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 17:47:
Nvidia is great and can do whatever it wants

Hey, I got a 3060 here that I can rebrand to 4070 and would sell it to you for just $899. Deal? You know, names are not important...

That's right. Names do not matter. I would look up the specs and the performance of the card you are trying to sell me for $899 and figure out whether it is a deal or not. I'm not a dumbfuck who just buys a name. I buy hardware. I buy specs. I buy performance. I buy features. I buy game support. Not names.

Fan comes from fanatism. Obviously.

Yep, very obviously true as far as the AMD fanatics are concerned who can not stand when the facts do not correspond with their biased world view where nVidia will surely fail any minute now... and then nVidia goes up to 86% market share in dGPU while AMD drops to an all-time low of 10% . Epic. Yeah, facts can be painful when a fanatic's surefire predictions fail to become a reality. I understand that it can be tough. Better luck next time, chaps!

In the end, support them if you want. If someone tries to screw me over, I will stop supporting this guy/company. But to each their own.

Well, as I said, I think it is awesome that you want to support AMD. They need every sale they can get. I'm good. I bought a RTX 4090 which is an awesome card. nVidia has never tried to screw me over either. I'm not a helpless victim. I'm a grown up dude who makes informed purchasing decisions. You can not screw me over by simply naming something Duffy Duck instead of Donald Duck. I bought a RTX 4090 knowing exactly what I would get. What more could I want?

Nvidia fanatics like you crack me up. A friend has a 4090 in his PC and it heats the room and them some. He will have to add some additional air conditioning in the summer in that room. Heat also slowly destroys electronics, I will take an AMD any day in the week. There is such a thing as overkill and the 4000 series is major overkill for today's games.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 6, 2022, 00:23:
I'll likely pick up a 7900 some time down the road for two reasons:

* Lower power draw
* mesa support

Nvidia has just started doing OSS drivers but they're not nearly as mature as mesa is currently. It would be unreasonable to think they would be.

For me, personally, Nvidia has a long, long way to go to rehabilitate their image as an open source citizen given both their reluctance and hostility to Linux in the past. Open sourcing their drivers is a step in the right direction but they could have just as easily worked with the mesa team like AMD and Intel have done to create a uniform GPU module. But that would be a massive change from Nvidia's typical arrogance and NIH obsession.

Isn't their open source support half-arsed anyway? I remember reading that a lot of people complained that they just released their code without any revision history and there were some speculations about the reason, namely that they moved a lot of the code into the firmware of the chips, which is still closed, so it wouldn't be exposed.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 19:30:

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 18:49:
Fan comes from fanatism. Obviously.

Technically, it comes from "fanatic" which itself is tied to "fanaticism".

It's fanaticism indeed. Got that wrong, sorry.

nvidia's arrogance is honestly sad. i was one of the original nvidia early adopters - i was one of the few who owned a riva128 back when 3dfx were the 800lb gorilla. but it seems customer good will means nothing to them and they're happy to just milk us all dry and then leave the dusty corpse with a laugh.

I'll likely pick up a 7900 some time down the road for two reasons:

* Lower power draw
* mesa support

Nvidia has just started doing OSS drivers but they're not nearly as mature as mesa is currently. It would be unreasonable to think they would be.

For me, personally, Nvidia has a long, long way to go to rehabilitate their image as an open source citizen given both their reluctance and hostility to Linux in the past. Open sourcing their drivers is a step in the right direction but they could have just as easily worked with the mesa team like AMD and Intel have done to create a uniform GPU module. But that would be a massive change from Nvidia's typical arrogance and NIH obsession.

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 18:49:

RogueSix wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 17:47:
Nvidia is great and can do whatever it wants

Hey, I got a 3060 here that I can rebrand to 4070 and would sell it to you for just $899. Deal? You know, names are not important...

That's right. Names do not matter. I would look up the specs and the performance of the card you are trying to sell me for $899 and figure out whether it is a deal or not. I'm not a dumbfuck who just buys a name. I buy hardware. I buy specs. I buy performance. I buy features. I buy game support. Not names.

Fan comes from fanatism. Obviously.

Yep, very obviously true as far as the AMD fanatics are concerned who can not stand when the facts do not correspond with their biased world view where nVidia will surely fail any minute now... and then nVidia goes up to 86% market share in dGPU while AMD drops to an all-time low of 10% . Epic. Yeah, facts can be painful when a fanatic's surefire predictions fail to become a reality. I understand that it can be tough. Better luck next time, chaps!

In the end, support them if you want. If someone tries to screw me over, I will stop supporting this guy/company. But to each their own.

Well, as I said, I think it is awesome that you want to support AMD. They need every sale they can get. I'm good. I bought a RTX 4090 which is an awesome card. nVidia has never tried to screw me over either. I'm not a helpless victim. I'm a grown up dude who makes informed purchasing decisions. You can not screw me over by simply naming something Duffy Duck instead of Donald Duck. I bought a RTX 4090 knowing exactly what I would get. What more could I want?

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 18:49:
Fan comes from fanatism. Obviously.

Technically, it comes from "fanatic" which itself is tied to "fanaticism".

RogueSix wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 17:47:
Nvidia is great and can do whatever it wants

Hey, I got a 3060 here that I can rebrand to 4070 and would sell it to you for just $899. Deal? You know, names are not important...

Fan comes from fanatism. Obviously.

In the end, support them if you want. If someone tries to screw me over, I will stop supporting this guy/company. But to each their own.

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 17:15:
But only in 90+% of the games (i.e. when it comes to raster output), Nvidia will say. Well, they won't tell you that it is more than 9 out of 10 games, of course. When it comes to raytracing, the 4080 is faster than the 7900XTX. And Nvidia has the magic unicorn dust - DLSS3 to make frames appear out of the thin air!

AMD will have a similar technology next year (I forgot what they are going to call it but you can Google it). What AMD will not have is the same RT performance and DLSS will probably always remain a superior solution to FSR (though FSR also works on nVidia so for nVidia owners it is always win-win if a game supports either technology or both to choose from).

Not sure how reliable the benchmarks are, but Nvidia really shot itself in the foot with the pricing and the attempt to screw over its customers with the "4080 12GB" that did not even feature the 4080 GPU. I bought Nvidia cards for a long time but this is just too much and I think they need to be taught a lesson for their latest douche moves.

Shot themselves in the foot? LOL. The RTX 4090 sold out almost immediately. 100K+ units. Yep. That must have really hurt...

As for the RTX 4080, they will be lowering the price after the RX 7000 launch. The initial pricing was a calculated move to make as much money as possible from early adopters. That is a totally legit sales strategy. No harm done. If people are not patient enough to wait for the RX 7000 launch or until after Xmas then, yeah, you pay a premium. News at 11.

The naming was a non-issue as well. No harm done either. The obsession with the "correct" naming is weird anyway. They could call their cards Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck. Who cares (well, Disney might object )? The only thing that counts is what do you get for your money? In this day and age it's never been easier to find out thanks to a myriad of websites and tech YouTubers etc.

I think it is great that you want to support AMD. God knows they need it. Their market share has hit a new all-time low last quarter so every sale counts.

This comment was edited on Dec 5, 2022, 18:02.

Steele Johnson wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 17:07:

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 16:44:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 14:18:
First AMD 7900 XTX leaked benchmark score is absolutely terrible vs Nvidia RTX 4090 & 4080

But it only pulls half the electricity, no?

Aaand there has been an update to this article!

New benchmark scores for RX 7900 XTX shows AMD easily dispatching Nvidia's RTX 4080

And doing so, it pulls half the electricity, no?

Wow, if this is true (i.e. I rarely trust "leaked" info), watch the 3xxx series cards tank in price

But only in 90+% of the games (i.e. when it comes to raster output), Nvidia will say. Well, they won't tell you that it is more than 9 out of 10 games, of course. When it comes to raytracing, the 4080 is faster than the 7900XTX. And Nvidia has the magic unicorn dust - DLSS3 to make frames appear out of the thin air!

Not sure how reliable the benchmarks are, but Nvidia really shot itself in the foot with the pricing and the attempt to screw over its customers with the "4080 12GB" that did not even feature the 4080 GPU. I bought Nvidia cards for a long time but this is just too much and I think they need to be taught a lesson for their latest douche moves.

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 16:44:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 14:18:
First AMD 7900 XTX leaked benchmark score is absolutely terrible vs Nvidia RTX 4090 & 4080

But it only pulls half the electricity, no?

Aaand there has been an update to this article!

New benchmark scores for RX 7900 XTX shows AMD easily dispatching Nvidia's RTX 4080

And doing so, it pulls half the electricity, no?

Wow, if this is true (i.e. I rarely trust "leaked" info), watch the 3xxx series cards tank in price

jdreyer wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 14:18:
First AMD 7900 XTX leaked benchmark score is absolutely terrible vs Nvidia RTX 4090 & 4080

But it only pulls half the electricity, no?

Aaand there has been an update to this article!

New benchmark scores for RX 7900 XTX shows AMD easily dispatching Nvidia's RTX 4080

And doing so, it pulls half the electricity, no?

Argonius the 3rd wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 15:44:
These prices are insane, and even more insane is how recession resilient Nvidia seems to be.

More like nVidia riding the greedflation bandwagon. Purposely limit the supply to increase the demand lol! However, they're having the reverse effect now, with an overstock of 3xxx gpus that manufacturers are stuck with

Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 14:41:
Have I mentioned recently how happy I am with my Super 2070 bought in my new PC in May 2020?

Honestly, you're getting much more for your money than the 3xxx or 4xxx cards

El Pit wrote on Dec 5, 2022, 11:58:
5%? So they are trying to sell the 4080 for €1400? WOW, what a deal. Make it 800 or keep your stuff.

The Euro was at under $1 ($0.97/98) when the RTX 4000 series launched. The Euro now stands at just under $1.05.

So, what is really happening here is simply a currency adjustment.

It's been pretty bad for us Europeans compared to the RTX 3000 launch. When the RTX 3000 launched, the Euro was closer to $1.20. That means we had a +20% price increase from RTX 3000 vs. RTX 4000 just because European politicians suck even harder than US politicians.

We got those +20% currency shenanigans on top of the already hefty "regular" price increases (inflation, TSMC price hikes etc.) which resulted in a very high MSRP of €1949 for the RTX 4090 instead of the slightly more manageable MSRP of €1649 for the RTX 3090 (German pricing including 19% VAT).

These prices are insane, and even more insane is how recession resilient Nvidia seems to be.

Have I mentioned recently how happy I am with my Super 2070 bought in my new PC in May 2020?