"Microsoft's Windows Subsystem for Linux just hit a major milestone. "

Just make a Linux based Windows version and be done with it. Then game devs (and other software devs) will have no choice than to make their software compatible on Linux. Then I can be done with MS for good

Steele Johnson wrote on Nov 25, 2022, 14:26:

Just make a Linux based Windows version and be done with it.

In as much I would like that to happen, it won't happen any time soon.

Although Microsoft does have their own Linux distro, CBL-Mariner, it's exclusively oriented toward Azure use and deployment. On that front, Microsoft has realized and acknowledged that Windows can't and doesn't scale.

But in the desktop and SMB markets, they have painted themselves in to a corner that they can't break out of without causing severe pain. Microsoft has built and/or mainted several APIs that a great deal of software that is deemed mission critical for many different industries have been developed on or against. Much of it is poorly written, cobbled together, or duct taped together and can only run on Windows oriented APIs.

There are also licensing issues since Microsoft, for a large portion of its history, couldn't stop fucking the proprietary chicken. Switching to a Linux base would require them to start using libraries and software that requires their code to be capable of being upstreamed for the use of anyone who wanted it. Unless they completely wrote all of the necessary binaries and libraries from scratch and licensed it under a completely new license that nobody but Microsoft would use since it would violate the whole point of OSS.

And that dovetails in to the problem of cost. Paying codemonkeys isn't cheap. Especially if you're rearchitecting a whole new OS from scratch. Retraining your support staff isn't cheap. Retraining your MSVs isn't cheap. Trying to convince risk averse, penny pinching, and deeply entrenched business sectors isn't cheap.

Finally, and this is wholly personal opinion, Microsoft can't innovate. Look at the shitshow that is Windows 11. Every "new" feature is a literal and direct copy from a different OS. They haven't innovated anything since Windows 7. Even their much pimped (by themselves) filesystem replacement for NTFS cratered. Twice! If they can't manage to successfully build a new filesystem for their own OS, they simply don't have the chops to build an entirely new OS for themselves.

So, I don't see a Linux powered version of Windows as likely or happening any time soon.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 25, 2022, 15:28:

Steele Johnson wrote on Nov 25, 2022, 14:26:

Just make a Linux based Windows version and be done with it.

In as much I would like that to happen, it won't happen any time soon.

Although Microsoft does have their own Linux distro, CBL-Mariner, it's exclusively oriented toward Azure use and deployment. On that front, Microsoft has realized and acknowledged that Windows can't and doesn't scale.

But in the desktop and SMB markets, they have painted themselves in to a corner that they can't break out of without causing severe pain. Microsoft has built and/or mainted several APIs that a great deal of software that is deemed mission critical for many different industries have been developed on or against. Much of it is poorly written, cobbled together, or duct taped together and can only run on Windows oriented APIs.

There are also licensing issues since Microsoft, for a large portion of its history, couldn't stop fucking the proprietary chicken. Switching to a Linux base would require them to start using libraries and software that requires their code to be capable of being upstreamed for the use of anyone who wanted it. Unless they completely wrote all of the necessary binaries and libraries from scratch and licensed it under a completely new license that nobody but Microsoft would use since it would violate the whole point of OSS.

And that dovetails in to the problem of cost. Paying codemonkeys isn't cheap. Especially if you're rearchitecting a whole new OS from scratch. Retraining your support staff isn't cheap. Retraining your MSVs isn't cheap. Trying to convince risk averse, penny pinching, and deeply entrenched business sectors isn't cheap.

Finally, and this is wholly personal opinion, Microsoft can't innovate. Look at the shitshow that is Windows 11. Every "new" feature is a literal and direct copy from a different OS. They haven't innovated anything since Windows 7. Even their much pimped (by themselves) filesystem replacement for NTFS cratered. Twice! If they can't manage to successfully build a new filesystem for their own OS, they simply don't have the chops to build an entirely new OS for themselves.

So, I don't see a Linux powered version of Windows as likely or happening any time soon.

IMO, I don't think the software industry outside of MS's walled garden is going to care when MS goes subscription-based or their bloated operating system starts costing way too much to maintain. Something is going to give at some point. Millennials and Gen-Z aren't big MS fans. They see them as old-school, legacy software providers. The software industry itself will eventually make proprietary Windows obsolete at some point. I just wish it was sooner rather than later

Steele Johnson wrote on Nov 25, 2022, 18:15:
<Snipped for brevity>
IMO, I don't think the software industry outside of MS's walled garden is going to care when MS goes subscription-based or their bloated operating system starts costing way too much to maintain. Something is going to give at some point. Millennials and Gen-Z aren't big MS fans. They see them as old-school, legacy software providers. The software industry itself will eventually make proprietary Windows obsolete at some point. I just wish it was sooner rather than later

You're thinking of it from a user-first perspective. Microsoft isn't focused on the home market. If they were, they wouldn't be handing out free upgrades for their last two OSes. They know they've lost the eyes of most people who have switched to phones and tablets for most, if not all, of their computing needs. What they care about first and foremost is the corporate and enterprise markets since they make up the bulk of their revenue stream. Any change in those environments is glacial and Microsoft can count on that revenue. So they're not going to do anything to rock the boat. They believe that Azure is their future with everything "cloud native".

Would I like to see Linux take over the desktop? Absolutely. Do I think it is likely to happen? Not within the timeframe where I will still care about desktops.