theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:34:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:18:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:07:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:46:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:12:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

What does that have to do with them purposely using an insufficient cooler to show Intel throttling while using more power than AMD?

That 'insufficient' cooler was 'sufficient' for the direct competitor, 7950X. It's all kind of silly anyways, because most gaming requires considerably less power, therefore less thermal throttling.

That was literally the point behind them switching to the 120mm AIO: to show temp != wattage.

These quotes have left me dizzy...what are we discussing again? In most reviewer scenarios that I've seen, the 13900K consumes more power and will likely outperform the 7950X with current W11 builds. But the 13900K is more likely to thermal throttle with measurable impact on performance.

The first poster mentioned thermal throttling while gaming, but that was not part of the regular testing it was a specific test HUB did with a 120mm AIO to show that while AMD may be running hotter (95c thermal target) Intel is still putting out more heat (higher wattage).

You're completely correct about the comparison between the two overall. I was pointing out that using a specific test designed to show thermal throttling is not indicative of the actual experience (their 360mm AIO certainly was not throttling during any gaming).

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:18:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:07:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:46:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:12:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

What does that have to do with them purposely using an insufficient cooler to show Intel throttling while using more power than AMD?

That 'insufficient' cooler was 'sufficient' for the direct competitor, 7950X. It's all kind of silly anyways, because most gaming requires considerably less power, therefore less thermal throttling.

That was literally the point behind them switching to the 120mm AIO: to show temp != wattage.

These quotes have left me dizzy...what are we discussing again? In most reviewer scenarios that I've seen, the 13900K consumes more power and will likely outperform the 7950X with current W11 builds. But the 13900K is more likely to thermal throttle with measurable impact on performance.

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 02:07:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:46:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:12:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

What does that have to do with them purposely using an insufficient cooler to show Intel throttling while using more power than AMD?

That 'insufficient' cooler was 'sufficient' for the direct competitor, 7950X. It's all kind of silly anyways, because most gaming requires considerably less power, therefore less thermal throttling.

That was literally the point behind them switching to the 120mm AIO: to show temp != wattage.

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:46:

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:12:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

What does that have to do with them purposely using an insufficient cooler to show Intel throttling while using more power than AMD?

That 'insufficient' cooler was 'sufficient' for the direct competitor, 7950X. It's all kind of silly anyways, because most gaming requires considerably less power, therefore less thermal throttling.

theglaze wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 01:12:

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

What does that have to do with them purposely using an insufficient cooler to show Intel throttling while using more power than AMD?

thestryker wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:20:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

He said in the video a MSI 360 AIO was used, and 13900K hit Tjmax in just a few seconds with Cinebench.

This comment was edited on Oct 21, 2022, 01:32.

Simon Says wrote on Oct 21, 2022, 00:03:

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even some 240mm AIOs and match others?

They were purposely testing worst case scenario with insufficient cooling what part of that don't you understand?

If the AMD CPU is pulling around 140W and Intel CPU around 180W and only the latter is throttling then the cooler is the problem.

thestryker wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 19:40:

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

I wonder since when it's ok to have thermal throttling IN GAMES with a cooler that can beat even 240s and match some 360s?

Got anything to add? ... Yeah, I didn't think so.

Simon Says wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 15:37:
Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

With a 120mm AIO... which if you're using you deserve what you get.

phinn wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 14:01:
Wow performance is great and does beat Zen 4 on a lot of the tests. But that power consumption is just horrendous. Intel has gone mad.

Not mad, their production process is still 10nm. AMD is on a 5nm process already. Intel's power draw would probably be cut by a third or half if they were on 5nm.

A lake of Raptors is too scary for me!

For gaming it looks like the 13600K is the cpu to own. And for more budget oriented builds the 12600K/12700K are also incredible deals !
AMD just lost the gaming desktop race, the price performance ratio just isn't there... which is a crazy thing to say for AMD cpu's

ZandarKoad wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 14:18:
Can we just throw power consumption into the formula as part of the denominator, and get a new ranking?

This should be done for GPUs and CPUs, for every generation.

FPS per dollar per watt or whatever

The best technical review sites do this already, or something similar. See the TechPowerUp links above. And yeah, these new chips are near the bottom of that ranking for gaming performance per watt. Performance per dollar is better, but AFAIK that only takes into consideration the purchase price, not how much electricity it'll be gulping while you run it.

Zen 4: "I run at 95c!"

Raptor Lake: "Hold my throttling at 100c!"

Fun fact: 7950x at 195W has the same perf as 13900k at 295W.

Another fun fact, 13900K throttles EVEN IN GAMES.

Welp...

ZandarKoad wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 14:18:
Can we just throw power consumption into the formula as part of the denominator, and get a new ranking?

This should be done for GPUs and CPUs, for every generation.

FPS per dollar per watt or whatever

At least now you have something to heat the future moon base. Just need one of these with a 4090 in every room.

Can we just throw power consumption into the formula as part of the denominator, and get a new ranking?

This should be done for GPUs and CPUs, for every generation.

FPS per dollar per watt or whatever

AMD chose a bad design for their IHS (yay for the CPUs running hotter and less efficient than they could have) and their power draw went up quite a bit over 5xxx. Intel has been pulling too much power in general for the last 3-4 generations though at least gaming/lightly threaded isn't too bad with 12th/13th. Both companies have made it very easy for me to sit on what I've got and wait for next time.

If all you do is gaming the 5800x3d still seems like the best buy due to high performance and low power consumption. Whereas the best general usage CPU seems to be the 13600K since it's good in ST/MT and its power consumption is less bad than the flagships.

theglaze wrote on Oct 20, 2022, 12:42:
Gamer Nexus: "Sure! Congratulations! You're at the top of the chart. But it's without any grace, whatsoever."

This is what I was thinking the whole time watching their review. Efficiency should be something we care about, but Intel got the headlines they wanted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Wow performance is great and does beat Zen 4 on a lot of the tests. But that power consumption is just horrendous. Intel has gone mad.

Gamer Nexus: "Sure! Congratulations! You're at the top of the chart. But it's without any grace, whatsoever."