theglaze wrote on Oct 15, 2022, 09:38:
100% agree

The facts (as I see them): OW1 monetization scheme continually failed to reach any internal financial forecast, OW League interest sputtered and never obtained CSGO-like popularity, and increased legal issues with loot boxes as nations continued to ban them. Then Microsoft moves forward with the acquisition of Act/Blizz and new pressure exists to meet certain deadlines (perhaps even binding to the deal?)

It seems logical to Act/Blizz (but not to the customer) to repackage the OW experience into a 'sequel' because of the pivot in strategy and how the game will be handled moving forward: Battle Pass to create consistent revenue stream from the regulars, refocus on casual experience with new heroes, cosmetics, PvE (still missing) that directly oppose efforts to make a balanced eSports shooter, and Shop economy resigned to remove loot boxes.

Then there's the publicity of launching OW2 and calling it a sequel (even to mediocre reception) generates more engagement and reaches more potential customers than simply flipping OW1 to free-to-play and doing these updates.

One problem with a lot of this...

OW2 had been "in development" for about 3 years prior to its release. Back when Jeff Kaplan was still involved, he had made the vision to move to a new game that had more Co-Op and RPG components (ex; Skill trees, character 'leveling') and that retroactively adding that into the original would've been impossible. It wasn't until OWL started to flounder (thanks mostly due to the negative press and sponsors leaving en masse) that Jeff left and Aaron Keller came on board that he basically threw out everything that Jeff had started, decoupled the PVP aspect from the PVE to attempt to bolster OWL, and focused more on an iterative F2P GaaS version as opposed to a directly new game.

All of that with the aforementioned lootbox issue is what led to what OW2 became, good and bad.

theglaze wrote on Oct 15, 2022, 09:38:

jdreyer wrote on Oct 15, 2022, 02:02:

theglaze wrote on Oct 14, 2022, 23:54:
Perhaps the most significant adjustment with OW2 is a subtle one: you can switch heroes and carry up to 30% of your Ultimate charge to your new selection.

This helps resolve the 'sunk-cost' fallacy of casual players: "yeah I'll switch heroes after my Ultimate, because I'm at 60%" But grinding that next 40% can be brutal if that hero is currently 'countered' by the opponent's lineup. These players feel 'pot committed' to finish out their original selection that is ineffective. Now the gameplay encourages quick hero changes to surprise the opponent, and the right hero change can swing the next skirmish, and that player can easily get back to 60% Ultimate which they were previously afraid of losing.

This change also applies to Mystery Heroes. Upon death, up to 30% charge will be carried forward to your next randomly assigned hero.

Thoughts on why they didn't/couldn't change to that mechanic in the original OW? In fact, I'm not seeing enough other differences in the new game to justify it.

100% agree

The facts (as I see them): OW1 monetization scheme continually failed to reach any internal financial forecast, OW League interest sputtered and never obtained CSGO-like popularity, and increased legal issues with loot boxes as nations continued to ban them. Then Microsoft moves forward with the acquisition of Act/Blizz and new pressure exists to meet certain deadlines (perhaps even binding to the deal?)

It seems logical to Act/Blizz (but not to the customer) to repackage the OW experience into a 'sequel' because of the pivot in strategy and how the game will be handled moving forward: Battle Pass to create consistent revenue stream from the regulars, refocus on casual experience with new heroes, cosmetics, PvE (still missing) that directly oppose efforts to make a balanced eSports shooter, and Shop economy resigned to remove loot boxes.

Then there's the publicity of launching OW2 and calling it a sequel (even to mediocre reception) generates more engagement and reaches more potential customers than simply flipping OW1 to free-to-play and doing these updates.

Thanks Glaze. I suspected something like that. Thanks for the details.

jdreyer wrote on Oct 15, 2022, 02:02:

theglaze wrote on Oct 14, 2022, 23:54:
Perhaps the most significant adjustment with OW2 is a subtle one: you can switch heroes and carry up to 30% of your Ultimate charge to your new selection.

This helps resolve the 'sunk-cost' fallacy of casual players: "yeah I'll switch heroes after my Ultimate, because I'm at 60%" But grinding that next 40% can be brutal if that hero is currently 'countered' by the opponent's lineup. These players feel 'pot committed' to finish out their original selection that is ineffective. Now the gameplay encourages quick hero changes to surprise the opponent, and the right hero change can swing the next skirmish, and that player can easily get back to 60% Ultimate which they were previously afraid of losing.

This change also applies to Mystery Heroes. Upon death, up to 30% charge will be carried forward to your next randomly assigned hero.

Thoughts on why they didn't/couldn't change to that mechanic in the original OW? In fact, I'm not seeing enough other differences in the new game to justify it.

100% agree

The facts (as I see them): OW1 monetization scheme continually failed to reach any internal financial forecast, OW League interest sputtered and never obtained CSGO-like popularity, and increased legal issues with loot boxes as nations continued to ban them. Then Microsoft moves forward with the acquisition of Act/Blizz and new pressure exists to meet certain deadlines (perhaps even binding to the deal?)

It seems logical to Act/Blizz (but not to the customer) to repackage the OW experience into a 'sequel' because of the pivot in strategy and how the game will be handled moving forward: Battle Pass to create consistent revenue stream from the regulars, refocus on casual experience with new heroes, cosmetics, PvE (still missing) that directly oppose efforts to make a balanced eSports shooter, and Shop economy resigned to remove loot boxes.

Then there's the publicity of launching OW2 and calling it a sequel (even to mediocre reception) generates more engagement and reaches more potential customers than simply flipping OW1 to free-to-play and doing these updates.

Mr. Tact wrote on Oct 14, 2022, 22:41:
So, this is like a 5 v 5 shooter right?

Yep, a 5v5 hero shooter and a hell of a lot of fun. The new player experience is quite nice for some of my friends new to the F2P* sequel. There are a ton of heroes so starting with a few from each role (Tank, DPS, Support) and unlocking more as you play has helped some of my friends a ton.

*Game is F2P but there's no pay to win. There's a free battlepass & $10 'premium' battlepass but you can unlock almost everything by just playing. There is a store that you can spend a fortune in if you want, but it's all cosmetics.

Blue you mentioned that the Closed Beta of Darktide is underway this weekend? It's fucking amazing. My Vermintide muscle memory was immediately applicable to this game. Truly a Fatshark game, and I'll waste hundreds of hours on this one too.

I became a healer main in OW after my stroke. Ana and Lucio to be exact. Lucio when I don't trust my motor skills enough to focus on active healing, and Ana on days when I feel good enough to challenge myself a bit. Not sure how that will translate over to OW2 but I guess I'll try it at some point.

theglaze wrote on Oct 14, 2022, 23:54:
Perhaps the most significant adjustment with OW2 is a subtle one: you can switch heroes and carry up to 30% of your Ultimate charge to your new selection.

This helps resolve the 'sunk-cost' fallacy of casual players: "yeah I'll switch heroes after my Ultimate, because I'm at 60%" But grinding that next 40% can be brutal if that hero is currently 'countered' by the opponent's lineup. These players feel 'pot committed' to finish out their original selection that is ineffective. Now the gameplay encourages quick hero changes to surprise the opponent, and the right hero change can swing the next skirmish, and that player can easily get back to 60% Ultimate which they were previously afraid of losing.

This change also applies to Mystery Heroes. Upon death, up to 30% charge will be carried forward to your next randomly assigned hero.

Thoughts on why they didn't/couldn't change to that mechanic in the original OW? In fact, I'm not seeing enough other differences in the new game to justify it.

Overrated 2

It didn't attract me.

Perhaps the most significant adjustment with OW2 is a subtle one: you can switch heroes and carry up to 30% of your Ultimate charge to your new selection.

This helps resolve the 'sunk-cost' fallacy of casual players: "yeah I'll switch heroes after my Ultimate, because I'm at 60%" But grinding that next 40% can be brutal if that hero is currently 'countered' by the opponent's lineup. These players feel 'pot committed' to finish out their original selection that is ineffective. Now the gameplay encourages quick hero changes to surprise the opponent, and the right hero change can swing the next skirmish, and that player can easily get back to 60% Ultimate which they were previously afraid of losing.

This change also applies to Mystery Heroes. Upon death, up to 30% charge will be carried forward to your next randomly assigned hero.

Sepharo wrote on Oct 14, 2022, 20:21:
Probably counted each individual IP in the DDoS attacks as players.

I am enjoying the game though.
I enjoyed OW1 too... right to the last day.
Good thing OW2 is quite serviceable as a replacement... because if it was hot garbage I'd be pretty upset about having a game I paid for taken away from me.

See I didn't know that Overwatch would be discontinued. I'm not really enjoying it as I enjoyed the boxes and gettings skins/etc.

So, this is like a 5 v 5 shooter right?

Damn kids these days don't know what real gaming is!

I wanted to launch the game after reading this and to my surprise it was uninstalled. Strange as I've played 2 days ago. How come it was uninstalled without letting me know?

edit: even though it was showing 21GB to install, it was only a small update.

Probably counted each individual IP in the DDoS attacks as players.

I am enjoying the game though.
I enjoyed OW1 too... right to the last day.
Good thing OW2 is quite serviceable as a replacement... because if it was hot garbage I'd be pretty upset about having a game I paid for taken away from me.