BigVlad wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 17:18:

LordSteev wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 17:00:
I remember way back, when playing rpg's that hadn't been optimized for profit, it used to be fun to find a chest and stumble on a new outfit. Maybe you even built a back story around it and gave it some stats to match. Now you just hop into your regional Medieval K-Mart and bust out your REAL gold. No story, no stats. Something that should have been included for the price you pay for the game. The times, they are a'changing.

Diablo isn't really an RPG in the traditional sense anyway. Character development and story are not that important in the Diablo franchise, so cosmetic purchases don't have to make sense or fit in the story, in my opinion. My only issue would be if they offered completely ridiculous attire like modern business suits, huge cow heads, and so on. That would kind of ruin the theme.

You're certainly right about Diablo not being an RPG. Also about business suits and cow heads, too. I'm just a sentimentalist who's getting old and not appreciating the lack of thought and effort going into making games GOOD and MEMORABLE anymore. It's profit over substance in almost every case these days, which I guess is the inevitable result of going corporate. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Quinn wrote on Aug 20, 2022, 04:26:
Not worried one bit for Diablo 4 and its store. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the ruckus many of you are making because of Immortal is ridiculous. It is a F2P mobile Diablo 3 LITE and has exactly the type of economic model you see in every other F2P mobile game. Only difference is that this one actually didn't suck and was good fun, even without spending a dime. Get over the fact DI isn't the D4 you wanted. D4, after all, is coming. Chill.

About the D4 store: I don't get it. WHY would you want a permanent look in a game that's all about the loot/gear you find? Half the fun is the way my character starts to look based on the gear I put on them. Maybe endgame I use the transmog ability a bit, but again... half the fun is finding the gear with the cool visuals to transmog 🤷 Tsk tsk, humans are such an enigma.

I think most of the issues with Immortal and the future of Diablo as a whole is how smug Blizzard took it while dodging any resemblance of transparency over what will be considered premium content.

I didn't have a problem with the game when I played it other than it felt like a more shallow version of D3 with forced multiplayer hubs. I never stuck with it because it never really felt like you got anywhere in the grand machinations of the game. Maybe I've grown out of ARPGs like Diablo after almost 30 years, but I just didn't get hooked on much of the game like I did the proper entries into the series.

I do agree with you though, the hubbub over the monetization of the game, in general, is misplaced, as it's quite literally using the same model of pretty much every other mobile gatcha game out there. Honestly, I also figured that this game was more of a way to incentivize the Asian markets more, which makes perfect sense except for the languishing release probabilities in China.

Not worried one bit for Diablo 4 and its store. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the ruckus many of you are making because of Immortal is ridiculous. It is a F2P mobile Diablo 3 LITE and has exactly the type of economic model you see in every other F2P mobile game. Only difference is that this one actually didn't suck and was good fun, even without spending a dime. Get over the fact DI isn't the D4 you wanted. D4, after all, is coming. Chill.

About the D4 store: I don't get it. WHY would you want a permanent look in a game that's all about the loot/gear you find? Half the fun is the way my character starts to look based on the gear I put on them. Maybe endgame I use the transmog ability a bit, but again... half the fun is finding the gear with the cool visuals to transmog 🤷 Tsk tsk, humans are such an enigma.

El Pit wrote on Aug 20, 2022, 02:52:
Did they not say before the release of Diablo Immoral that you could not buy an advantage with real money? I think I remember something like that. And how did that work out?

But the Pay2Win bs is just one problem. The other is the shared open world stuff. Shared open world = MMO. And if I wanted to play an MMO, I would do so. But not a Diablo single-player game. Nuke that shared open world stuff from orbit because this is the only way to be sure.

Well, about Immortal, they (the game director) said that you wouldn't be able to buy "gear" which they conveniently defined in such as way that does not include legendary gems. So, yea, they did that. I wouldn't be worried about that with D4 though. That kind of pay model would not work for D4. They would make more money just by sticking with cosmetics.

The shared world stuff, I'll wait and see. Maybe it will be optional. From what I've seen, I suspect that these public encounter won't be very common. And you can choose to just walk away from it if you wish. You won't be forced to interact with anyone outside of that. I understand wanting a 100% single player experience though. But calling it an MMO is a bit of a stretch.

Did they not say before the release of Diablo Immoral that you could not buy an advantage with real money? I think I remember something like that. And how did that work out?

But the Pay2Win bs is just one problem. The other is the shared open world stuff. Shared open world = MMO. And if I wanted to play an MMO, I would do so. But not a Diablo single-player game. Nuke that shared open world stuff from orbit because this is the only way to be sure.

So these guys put the paid boosting system in the game... then had a change of heart, but left them in there, and they're just free now

God I'll stay the hell away from this shite...

And who doesn't love a "premium currency" where you can buy packs of 500/1000/2000 super-buckaroos but then the cool item cost 2250 bucks... so that you have a reason to buy more super-bucks because you need more for the thing... and then have some left but they are not enough to buy the cheapest item for like 650 bucks... so you'd again need to buy more... and so on and so on... certainly not a f'kn money draining scheme... in a full price game.

It gives me a headache even trying to make sense of that word salad. Just make a game and drop the bullcrap.

I feel reassured.

Bludd wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 17:15:
pray, what will this premium currency be used for?

Third item on the list above: "Players can spend this currency on cosmetics offered in the shop."

LordSteev wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 17:00:
I remember way back, when playing rpg's that hadn't been optimized for profit, it used to be fun to find a chest and stumble on a new outfit. Maybe you even built a back story around it and gave it some stats to match. Now you just hop into your regional Medieval K-Mart and bust out your REAL gold. No story, no stats. Something that should have been included for the price you pay for the game. The times, they are a'changing.

Diablo isn't really an RPG in the traditional sense anyway. Character development and story are not that important in the Diablo franchise, so cosmetic purchases don't have to make sense or fit in the story, in my opinion. My only issue would be if they offered completely ridiculous attire like modern business suits, huge cow heads, and so on. That would kind of ruin the theme.

Who cares? Stupid clickfest is stupid clickfest. The only difference is that the clickfest may be even clickier if microtransactions are involved. At least for the poor fucks who don't spend any monies.

pray, what will this premium currency be used for?

I remember way back, when playing rpg's that hadn't been optimized for profit, it used to be fun to find a chest and stumble on a new outfit. Maybe you even built a back story around it and gave it some stats to match. Now you just hop into your regional Medieval K-Mart and bust out your REAL gold. No story, no stats. Something that should have been included for the price you pay for the game. The times, they are a'changing.

Ron_Burgundy_I_Dont_Believe_You.jpg

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 13:08:
Ugh. Blizzard, what the fuck are you doing? Why even have "Season Boosts" unless the game is a slog to play?

Eh I don't think there is anything wrong with unpaid season boosts. A lot of people like the race and other people want to get to the end game stuff, this suits both.

I think what they're proposing here is absolutely fine if they stick to it and do not get greedy. Given recent history people are understandably dubious.

jacobvandy wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 14:22:

Ash wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 14:11:
What boosting crafting do you mean? As far as I remember, Diablo 3 had no such things.

You crafted legendary rings and amulets which had no level requirement, so a new character can wear them and get massive stat bonuses and XP gain buffs... I feel bad for you if you played any significant amount of D3 without knowing those existed or worked that way!

https://www.diablowiki.net/Hellfire_Ring

There was also a specific legendary gem that allowed you to remove the level requirement of other items (so you could use a max level weapon on a fresh character, for example), but that came much later.

Ahh yeah, I remember those. There was even a newer version of it for the expansion.
But in all honesty, it wasn't required at all. It literally took a couple of hours to reach max level in D3, at least in the later iterations. It wasn't so when it launched.

Ash wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 14:11:
What boosting crafting do you mean? As far as I remember, Diablo 3 had no such things.

You crafted legendary rings and amulets which had no level requirement, so a new character can wear them and get massive stat bonuses and XP gain buffs... I feel bad for you if you played any significant amount of D3 without knowing those existed or worked that way!

https://www.diablowiki.net/Hellfire_Ring

There was also a specific legendary gem that allowed you to remove the level requirement of other items (so you could use a max level weapon on a fresh character, for example), but that came much later.

jacobvandy wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 13:51:

MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Aug 19, 2022, 13:08:
Ugh. Blizzard, what the fuck are you doing? Why even have "Season Boosts" unless the game is a slog to play? Cosmetic shit as pay items... is annoying, but hopefully the regular gear won't look so terrible that it makes the game unbearable or something. Unfortunately every game seems to have paid cosmetics now.

At any rate, it sounds like the game is going to be base price + Season Pass price to get the true base game. Annoying, but not exactly unique among AAA games nowadays. I'll have to see how bad it actually is when the game is closer to release.

Maybe these boosts are a replacement for the convoluted boosting methods via crafting in Diablo 3? If they're reworking even the paragon system, it wouldn't surprise me if they dropped all of that outdated junk from v1.0 of the old game, as well.

Also, they're not talking about a season pass like a pre-order for future DLCs, it's a battle pass that rotates every few weeks or months and rewards you with little knick-knacks for keeping up with the grind consistently. Basically what they were doing with the seasonal rewards in D3, but that game is so ancient they didn't have and wouldn't bother implementing the standardized interface and mechanisms for it that even low-budget indies of today do. It's well known that people are more willing to pay a modest fee every so often and grind to "earn" their cosmetics and what-not rather than pay more to buy them outright in a shop. So that's why it's super common these days, but I wouldn't consider that a required purchase to get the most out of the game... That's like saying you have to buy the season pass for Rocket League or the Division 2 to get the full experience there.

What boosting crafting do you mean? As far as I remember, Diablo 3 had no such things.

I'm going to sit this one out. After Diablo: Immortal, I don't know how anyone can trust a word out of their PR droids about anything.