Out of the Blue

Two different smoke/CO₂ detectors in the BlueTower are chirping low battery warnings, so I've decided it's time to upgrade the entire place. There are sealed units where the battery lasts 10 years, which is appealing. I figured I'd mention this here in case anyone has any expertise on the right way to go. I'm looking to replace five units, and I see that there are models now that communicate with each other. This seems like a smart way to ensure being properly notified in case there's a problem. But maybe it's just a useless gimmick? Does anyone have experience or recommendations to share on these? This is one of those projects that one doesn't think about on a day-to-day basis, so I'd like to make a wise decision while it's on the front burner. Or maybe these detectors are fairly generic at this point and I shouldn't over think it?

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36.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 22:44
Jivaro
 
36.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 22:44
Aug 3, 2022, 22:44
 Jivaro
 
VaranDragon wrote on Aug 3, 2022, 03:09:
Jivaro wrote on Aug 3, 2022, 01:44:
A_Thein wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 21:34:
If they are super old Blue, take care opening them etc., and maybe wear a mask and gloves. Some of these older models have Americanium in them, which is pretty toxic/radioactive. Sure its fairly low amounts, but best not to gamble with your health. Be super careful especially if you see the ceramic/foil core cracked or otherwise compromised. Take care!

The fact that Americanium is toxic and radioactive will forever make me chuckle.

Lol...(also it's called Americium, but then it's not that funny)

I don't know, it's NEARLY as funny. lol
Avatar 55841
35.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 12:57
35.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 12:57
Aug 3, 2022, 12:57
 
If they are AC powered smoke detectors, with a third communication wire, then they are likely required by code. One goes off and they all do. My new home uses those. I would replace them with any standard Kidde AC smoke detector from Home Depot. They make universal models with a variety of adapters. Most use a 9 volt battery as a backup, but they last 4+ years because the battery is just for power failures. Their best model has the battery door on the front so you don't have to remove it to change the battery.

I use a couple of the Kidde 10 year battery only models in my old house (now the guest house). Those are battery only. You just replace them when they're dead. Mine aren't wireless, just standalone. My last set actually did last nearly 10 years.

Like BoP said, I would avoid any kind of wireless IoT detectors. That's a security breach waiting to happen. If you're intent on using them (or any insecure IoT device) then at least connect them to an untrusted guest Wifi that's isolated from your main network. Even if they only radio between themselves and don't connect to Wifi, there's no way to know what interference their transmitters might cause with Wifi.

I allow very few untrusted devices in my home, but one exception is the whole house generator. It's just too useful to have it email me with status updates. But that's connected to my untrusted guest network along with the one Roku I use.

Oh, a little FYI on Carbon Monoxide detectors: Avoid the wall plug models. You don't want these things near the floor. You want them in the ceiling. Made that mistake. The detector is easily fooled by dust, or in my case, cat litter dust.

This comment was edited on Aug 3, 2022, 13:09.
- “The planet is fine. The people are fucked.” -George Carlin
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34.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 08:26
Dev
34.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 08:26
Aug 3, 2022, 08:26
Dev
 
Hardline Mike wrote on Aug 3, 2022, 00:59:
I don't have a carbon monoxide detector. I will know if I have a CO problem if I wake up dead one morning.
Dude, get one they are cheap. And while that's possible, it's more likely you will start to go insane.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2707118/
Survivors of severe, acute CO poisoning can develop long-term neurologic sequelae (e.g., impairments in memory, concentration, and speech, as well as depression and parkinsonism).4 These sequelae may arise immediately after CO poisoning or may be delayed (occurring 2–21 days after CO poisoning).4

Would you really want to roll the dice on destroying your quality of life in that way? When it's so cheap to abate that risk?
33.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 03:09
33.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 03:09
Aug 3, 2022, 03:09
 
Jivaro wrote on Aug 3, 2022, 01:44:
A_Thein wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 21:34:
If they are super old Blue, take care opening them etc., and maybe wear a mask and gloves. Some of these older models have Americanium in them, which is pretty toxic/radioactive. Sure its fairly low amounts, but best not to gamble with your health. Be super careful especially if you see the ceramic/foil core cracked or otherwise compromised. Take care!

The fact that Americanium is toxic and radioactive will forever make me chuckle.

Lol...(also it's called Americium, but then it's not that funny)
Avatar 58327
32.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 01:44
Jivaro
 
32.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 01:44
Aug 3, 2022, 01:44
 Jivaro
 
A_Thein wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 21:34:
If they are super old Blue, take care opening them etc., and maybe wear a mask and gloves. Some of these older models have Americanium in them, which is pretty toxic/radioactive. Sure its fairly low amounts, but best not to gamble with your health. Be super careful especially if you see the ceramic/foil core cracked or otherwise compromised. Take care!

The fact that Americanium is toxic and radioactive will forever make me chuckle.
Avatar 55841
31.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 3, 2022, 00:59
31.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 3, 2022, 00:59
Aug 3, 2022, 00:59
 
I don't have a carbon monoxide detector. I will know if I have a CO problem if I wake up dead one morning.
"It's like you have a neon sign that just says 'raw dog me! I'm a bottom!'" -Queen Maeve
Avatar 43041
30.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 23:24
Dev
30.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 23:24
Aug 2, 2022, 23:24
Dev
 
So there's a couple different kinds of smoke detectors, I forget which. One is better for near kitchen. But it's less sensitive as I recall so only get one of those for near the kitchen. Edit: That video someone linked earlier covers this, photo electric and ionization. Worth checking out, because what I said I think has things reversed. Important part is having a mix of them, but per the video don't get the dual ones.

Look up the standards for them, typically it's one in each bedroom and other major rooms and halls. Edit: Video also covers this

Get at least one CO detector for each floor, can be a combo fire/CO as needed

Do you have the wired backup connection with your existing? See if the new ones are compatible. Sometimes just a new pigtail makes it compatible (which often is included when buying hardwire backup ones). If you don't have that, consider if you want to get them wired into house power for backup power. (Maybe not as required for 10 year sealed). CO detectors NEED to be replaced in 10 years. Some smoke detectors can go a bit longer, but good idea to get everything replaced at the same time when it's old.

Consider if you want to hook them up to something smart. For instance Ring is compatible with a certain first alert model.

This comment was edited on Aug 3, 2022, 08:20.
29.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 22:59
29.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 22:59
Aug 2, 2022, 22:59
 
$20-$25 dollars max. They are so loud anyone goes off I'll wake up without a doubt. I never get the time they say they'll last though, like bulbs these days.
Avatar 17232
28.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 21:34
28.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 21:34
Aug 2, 2022, 21:34
 
If they are super old Blue, take care opening them etc., and maybe wear a mask and gloves. Some of these older models have Americanium in them, which is pretty toxic/radioactive. Sure its fairly low amounts, but best not to gamble with your health. Be super careful especially if you see the ceramic/foil core cracked or otherwise compromised. Take care!
27.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 19:27
27.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 19:27
Aug 2, 2022, 19:27
 
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 18:34:
Steele Johnson wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 18:21:
OMG, the chirping! It drives me nuts when I can't figure out which one is chirping.
Some friends have an African Grey. It perfectly parrots the low battery chirp for twice the fun.

Man, that would drive me insane
Avatar 12787
26.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 18:34
26.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 18:34
Aug 2, 2022, 18:34
 
Steele Johnson wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 18:21:
OMG, the chirping! It drives me nuts when I can't figure out which one is chirping.
Some friends have an African Grey. It perfectly parrots the low battery chirp for twice the fun.
- At this point, Windows is the OS equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome. -
Burrito of Peace
Avatar 58135
25.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 18:21
25.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 18:21
Aug 2, 2022, 18:21
 
OMG, the chirping! It drives me nuts when I can't figure out which one is chirping. You stand next to each one and wait, it doesn't chirp. Then you walk away and one chirps again. Then you take the battery out of the one that you think is chirping, and you still hear the chirp. So you put the battery back in and take the battery out of the one you think is chirping, and you still hear a chirp! Holy crap, both are low on batteries at the same time! Can't they just put an led on these darn things and show yellow or something when it's low on batteries? 😂
Avatar 12787
24.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 17:41
24.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 17:41
Aug 2, 2022, 17:41
 
Verno wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 17:19:
Eh don't quote me and then edit out relevant portions to make your point look better or misrepresent mine.

I didn't. You literally said "No one is hacking your fire alarm". Yes, there are wired models for powerline communication but most people aren't going to know the difference. However, offering that up does not alter that you literally said "no one is hacking your fire alarm".

I quoted the part that was factually incorrect.
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.
Avatar 21247
23.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 17:19
Verno
 
23.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 17:19
Aug 2, 2022, 17:19
 Verno
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 16:47:
Verno wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:59:
...No one is hacking your fire alarm...

About that...

But, let's say you want to state that such system complexity isn't prevalent in a home system. You would be right, but that makes it easier, not harder. Just for kicks, I busted out my Flipper Zero, stood out in my backyard, and just let it analyze. Two houses behind me have security systems with their fire alarms tied in to it. How do I know? Because the device IDs are broadcast in the clear over RF as are the status of each device. Now that I have the IDs, channel, and statuses in hand, it would be absolutely trivial to spoof that with nothing more than my laptop, some open source software, and the cheapass wi-fi antenna I have. Which now gives me access to the entire network. If I really wanted to push it, all I would need to do is use Metasploit to find an exploit for the alarm controller and, if they have cameras as part of the same system, I have access to the cameras in addition to the system as a whole.

With caffeine and boredom, I would say it would take me about two hours to reliably be able to backdoor either of those systems.

I will say it again, IoT devices are shit and their security is shit. Closed loop devices are the only thing one should have in their home.

"Only the paranoid survive." - Andy Grove

Eh don't quote me and then edit out relevant portions to make your point look better or misrepresent mine. They make cheap, interconnected fire/co2 alarms that do not rely on wireless signals and internet connectivity. I'm not defending the state of security for IoT, though frankly anyone who cares that much should probably just vlan such devices and take ownership of their network through access controls or buy an alternative.
Playing: Elden Ring, HZD: FW, Kingdom Rush series
Watching: Severance, The IT Crowd, The Batman
Avatar 51617
22.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 17:00
22.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 17:00
Aug 2, 2022, 17:00
 
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:01:
Dutch Bridgegate is Huh
1. The bridge is not actually used by anyone.
2. The whole process would have taken a day or two. A "blink and you missed it" thing, inconveniencing no one.
3. The removal/reinstall would employ people and pay them.
4. See 1, 2 and 3.

So, ignore all the valid arguments based in principles of the Dutch that have been shown to produce a better community and culture overall for the wellbeing of its members just to accommodate the temperamental whims of one of the world's top Oligarchs.

In short, sacrifice the wellbeing of the many for the profit of one's overinflated sense of ego who doesn't care about anyone but himself.

Sounds like a very bad deal to me, and to the Dutch.
21.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 16:47
21.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 16:47
Aug 2, 2022, 16:47
 
RedEye9 wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:01:
Dutch Bridgegate is Huh

I think this is more of a giant "fuck you" to Bezos than anything engineering related. On top of that, there is a way to float the yacht without requiring the dismantling of the bridge, the shipbuilder doesn't wish to pursue that avenue at this time from what I have read.

/---\

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Dan. My best advice would be to get a lawyer that specializes in disability. Generally how they work is that there is no upfront cost to you. What will happen is that, if you are successful, they will take a percentage of the initial lump sum payment from whenever your disability is backdated to. The percentage can be steep but there is recurring cost after it.

/---\

Verno wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:59:
...No one is hacking your fire alarm...

About that...

But, let's say you want to state that such system complexity isn't prevalent in a home system. You would be right, but that makes it easier, not harder. Just for kicks, I busted out my Flipper Zero, stood out in my backyard, and just let it analyze. Two houses behind me have security systems with their fire alarms tied in to it. How do I know? Because the device IDs are broadcast in the clear over RF as are the status of each device. Now that I have the IDs, channel, and statuses in hand, it would be absolutely trivial to spoof that with nothing more than my laptop, some open source software, and the cheapass wi-fi antenna I have. Which now gives me access to the entire network. If I really wanted to push it, all I would need to do is use Metasploit to find an exploit for the alarm controller and, if they have cameras as part of the same system, I have access to the cameras in addition to the system as a whole.

With caffeine and boredom, I would say it would take me about two hours to reliably be able to backdoor either of those systems.

I will say it again, IoT devices are shit and their security is shit. Closed loop devices are the only thing one should have in their home.

"Only the paranoid survive." - Andy Grove
"Just take a look around you, what do you see? Pain, suffering, and misery." -Black Sabbath, Killing Yourself to Live.
Avatar 21247
20.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 16:46
20.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 16:46
Aug 2, 2022, 16:46
 
ZandarKoad wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 16:24:
One of the (many) reasons why poor cultures stay poor is because hating-anyone-wealthier becomes a social pastime. Both those who are 10,000,000% more wealthy (the Bezos) and even those who are 25% or 50% more wealthy (next door neighbors). In their case, it seems to be a deeply rooted philosophy originating with religious practices of long ago. It's not always deliberate, malicious or even conscious effort to hate. It just kind of ... becomes the default in some cultures. And when rich people do actually do things that are overtly evil, well, it is just that much easier to generalize and come up with the us vs them narrative.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:01:
Dutch Bridgegate is Huh
1. The bridge is not actually used by anyone.
2. The whole process would have taken a day or two. A "blink and you missed it" thing, inconveniencing no one.
3. The removal/reinstall would employ people and pay them.
4. See 1, 2 and 3.

Personally, I disagree. The issue is more that the poor are convinced to hate the other poor and blame them for poverty, rather than the rich. The other poor, be it different race, immigrants, whatever, aren't holding anyone back, but the hyper rich are the ones that control salaries and do lobbying to shift the economy in their favor.
19.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 16:34
Enahs
 
19.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 16:34
Aug 2, 2022, 16:34
 Enahs
 
Blue, more info than you want to know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAeaIcAXtg

I am sure code in your area now requires interconnected detectors, so not having them might be an insurance liability btw.
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
Avatar 15513
18.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
18.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
 
One of the (many) reasons why poor cultures stay poor is because hating-anyone-wealthier becomes a social pastime. Both those who are 10,000,000% more wealthy (the Bezos) and even those who are 25% or 50% more wealthy (next door neighbors). In their case, it seems to be a deeply rooted philosophy originating with religious practices of long ago. It's not always deliberate, malicious or even conscious effort to hate. It just kind of ... becomes the default in some cultures. And when rich people do actually do things that are overtly evil, well, it is just that much easier to generalize and come up with the us vs them narrative.

RedEye9 wrote on Aug 2, 2022, 15:01:
Dutch Bridgegate is Huh
1. The bridge is not actually used by anyone.
2. The whole process would have taken a day or two. A "blink and you missed it" thing, inconveniencing no one.
3. The removal/reinstall would employ people and pay them.
4. See 1, 2 and 3.
17.
 
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation
Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
17.
Re: OotB: Hazy Situation Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
Aug 2, 2022, 16:24
 
Putting in my best wishes as well. (Acleacius)

Thank you.

I'm 44, going on 45 at the end of the year. Not sure I qualify age-wise re: council on aging. I live in Massachusetts.

Thank you for the NAMI HelpLine. Right now I'm in a bit more level headspace and know what I need to do in the immediate sense of packing up the apartment and cleaning, selling of things I probably would not take with me, or that are otherwise impractical to take. Even without another place, employment or income lined up. If I have the bandwidth (mentally) to do it, I'll try to get to advocacy and those things tomorrow.

Shameless self-plug(s): http://drdk.bandcamp.com
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