Slashman wrote on May 28, 2022, 23:16:
...
Then they become not games but walking simulators. And sure some of them may be worth making the combat trivial to look around and explore the world but then there are also those where combat is the essence of the game and helps make the game world come alive.

Are you saying that playing on the lowest difficulty does not eliminate the frustration of too-tough enemies? Also, you mentioned getting into the head of the artists making the game, but didn't artists also design the enemies and the abilities you use to defeat them? Aren't they worth a look as intended by the artists that went to the trouble of making them?
...
True, but not all games have these to a crippling degree...not by a longshot.
...
That may well be interesting and worthwhile learning but I think I'd like to try to finish the game first before I dig into a cheat engine.
I'm not claiming extraordinary skill or anything like that. And I do think that Fallen Order was one of the games which wasted a lot of your time with backtracking and respawns. Not sure I will buy the sequel...I'll wait and see how I feel.

Sorry Slashman, just saw your answer now.
It's ok, we'll not agree because of naturally different human perceptions of enjoyment, as in music or book choices.
But your points are very well made and I'm glad to have exchanged opinions, very illuminating, thanks.
And now, let's rock on gaming !

Overall I quite liked the first game, but I felt like they leaned too heavily on "souls-like" elements. Having meditation spots that acted like bonfires really didn't add anything to the game. And combat against nearly every enemy was much harder than it needed to be (Not that I dislike a challenge, it just felt like they made everything hard just for the same of it being hard).

That and the combat wasn't really that much fun until like halfway through the game when you really start getting your abilities. Even then, everything felt way too grounded and constrained. I want to jump and explore like in Jedi Outcast, not play Dark Souls with a jump button.

Speaking of exploration, there was pretty much zero reason to do so. The paltry amount of cosmetic unlockables you could find seemed like an afterthought they threw in because they didn't have time to add in real secrets.

Hopefully they're allotted more time and resources to really make this game its own experience.

WannaLogAlready wrote on May 28, 2022, 19:00:
Truly important comment:
" It would save you money and time spent installing all the cheats."
Imagine if you could finish *every single game* that comes your way, never getting stuck or fustrated.

Then they become not games but walking simulators. And sure some of them may be worth making the combat trivial to look around and explore the world but then there are also those where combat is the essence of the game and helps make the game world come alive.

Are you saying that playing on the lowest difficulty does not eliminate the frustration of too-tough enemies? Also, you mentioned getting into the head of the artists making the game, but didn't artists also design the enemies and the abilities you use to defeat them? Aren't they worth a look as intended by the artists that went to the trouble of making them?

Positive, you clearly save money when you can finish *all* the games you buy.
Because you overcome glitches, unfair difficulty, or tons of respawning foes making them a chore, and get all the entertainment and not waste money on unfinishable/abandoned games.

True, but not all games have these to a crippling degree...not by a longshot.

And here enters: Cheat Engine.
Make the effort of learning, use that ole brain and the possibilities are amazing.
If you don't find working tables already made- it takes from 5 or 10 up to 40 minutes (if you want to find everything and not just a couple things), which I enjoy anyway, a mental/acquired skills challenge.

*** But then, you save up to hours of a game time, and before it begins to drag, you can go to the next exciting one ***.

That may well be interesting and worthwhile learning but I think I'd like to try to finish the game first before I dig into a cheat engine.

I'm not claiming extraordinary skill or anything like that. And I do think that Fallen Order was one of the games which wasted a lot of your time with backtracking and respawns. Not sure I will buy the sequel...I'll wait and see how I feel.

Truly important comment:
" It would save you money and time spent installing all the cheats."
Imagine if you could finish *every single game* that comes your way, never getting stuck or fustrated.

- Money:
I never bought a trainer, and I never will, there are many free ones.

Positive, you clearly save money when you can finish *all* the games you buy.
Because you overcome glitches, unfair difficulty, or tons of respawning foes making them a chore, and get all the entertainment and not waste money on unfinishable/abandoned games.

Negative?, you may spend more money buying more games knowing you will enjoy them, but hey, YOLO.

- Time:
Trainers take only a few minutes, just to see if they work with your version.
But trainers are a limited commodity, relatively few games have trainers, some don't work with updated game versions, many offer just a few options (never Fling, but even with him you may not find a particular thing you want).
And here enters: Cheat Engine.
Make the effort of learning, use that ole brain and the possibilities are amazing.
If you don't find working tables already made- it takes from 5 or 10 up to 40 minutes (if you want to find everything and not just a couple things), which I enjoy anyway, a mental/acquired skills challenge.

*** But then, you save up to hours of a game time, and before it begins to drag, you can go to the next exciting one ***.

And this is not for you, but to any reader that gets curious on the subject.

I afraid you'll lack the imagination to get my explanation, but here it goes anyway.
I.love.gaming.

- I don't give a flying duck about the mechanics of combat, never did, get out of the way already you foes.
It's just a very necessary drama, interesting alternatives, pepper and salt for the story progression.

- ***Games' worlds*** are the greatest art form to me, bar none.
I derive very high pleasure looking around, ***exploring***, following the story, the ambience.
The worlds' construction keep me living in wonder, and eternal daily child's relish, though 67 y.o.
Like finally, finally getting inside a book.

I have 3400 games, and a fan of so many of them that few people like.
Posted my walkthroughs on Steam for games with very low general scores, but they delighted me.

Neither movies nor tv series, not even my loved books, give me so much.
For example I loved the Marvel movies when they have interesting character interaction, but many of the last bored me halfway with all the jumping around and explosions and unending effects.

But in games, you are personally involved, you are into the mind of many so talented artists.

Slashman wrote on May 28, 2022, 14:36:
Why not just watch a freaking lets play and be done with it? It would save you money and time spent installing all the cheats...heck it would save you from having to invest in hardware. I mean what the hell is the point if you are going to cheat your way through.

You've obviously never used a flingtrainer. They're less than 2mb and you pick and choose what you want. Takes about a minute to set one up and that includes the time to download it. As for other things like cheatengine, WannaLogAlready enjoys writing the scripts and troubleshooting them. It ain't no big deal.
Why care about how someone else wants to experience a game, same goes for cost - it's his money.
I bet devs don't mind him spending money on their games or how he plays them.

WannaLogAlready wrote on May 28, 2022, 14:20:
Ooops, my apology is in order.

I'm so accustomed to it that I forget that I always use all manners of cheating, invulnerabitlity, one shot killings and whatnot.
In Fallen Order, I used Fling's chained jumps, a kind of flying beside my own cheats like in his Doom Eternal trainer.

I realize that I wouldn't have had the patience anymore to play many of my favorite games if I didn't cheat.

Backtracking? C.E. speedhack on/off velocity 1.5 or 2.0 and I run like The Flash.
Waiting 1 day repeatedly in The Technomancer? Speedhack 4.0 and just stand there a couple minutes.

Usually add my own cheats when Fling doesn't work or there isn't any.

In "Remember Me" -stunning cyberpunk city- using his health hack freezes the heroine after fights so found my own.
Or the option isn't in any trainer -found and froze timers in Prey 2017 and took my own sweet time, or timed races in BL2, or got the utmost powerful attack ship in Assassin's Creed Odyssey in 10 minutes- etc.

Yes, the games as I play them haven't the original fustrations anymore.

Why not just watch a freaking lets play and be done with it? It would save you money and time spent installing all the cheats...heck it would save you from having to invest in hardware. I mean what the hell is the point if you are going to cheat your way through.

Ooops, my apology is in order.

I'm so accustomed to it that I forget that I always use all manners of cheating, invulnerabitlity, one shot killings and whatnot.

Posted my personal 400 games C.E. tables in my only post in opencheattables.org to little noticing as I don't use scripts.
No matter, they help in learning to find addresses, though most see it as work instead of a very pleasurable challenge.

In Fallen Order, I used Fling's chained jumps, a kind of flying beside my own cheats like in his Doom Eternal trainer.

I realize that I wouldn't have had the patience anymore to play many of my favorite games if I didn't cheat.

Backtracking? C.E. speedhack on/off velocity 1.5 or 2.0 and I run like The Flash.
Waiting 1 day repeatedly in The Technomancer? Speedhack 4.0 and just stand there a couple minutes.

Usually add my own cheats when Fling doesn't work or there isn't any.

In "Remember Me" -stunning cyberpunk city- using his health hack freezes the heroine after fights so found my own.
Or the option isn't in any trainer -found and froze timers in Prey 2017 and took my own sweet time, or timed races in BL2, or got the utmost powerful attack ship in Assassin's Creed Odyssey in 10 minutes- etc.

Yes, the games as I play them haven't the original fustrations anymore.

This comment was edited on May 28, 2022, 14:38.

They went with the leaked name then. I hope this ends up being a trilogy with the last game happening after RoTJ, where Cal can finally emerge from hiding along with the other survivors. The first game was definitely good for those that haven't tried it yet, definitely one of top favorites for SW games (especially among the new 'modern' ones). My hope is that they explore other aspects of being a Jedi, namely not always killing shit. Force powers that involve cunning, manipulation, mind-tricks, stealth, etc.

I have a feeling they are going to have Cal meet others we know survived past RoTJ in these games, like Ahsoka and other Rebel cells, and probably get the actor in on the post RoTJ live-action series.

Piecing together the time line:
Jedi Order takes place around 14 BBY (5 years after 19BBY Formation of the Empire/Order 66, during this time Ahsoka went into hiding with Clone Trooper Rex in the Outer Rim, where she eventually assumed a false identity)
Survivor takes places around 9 BBY (10 years after Empire Formation, and also 10 years into Obi-Wans mission to protect Luke and Leia co-coinciding with the Obi-Wan miniseries)
5-0 BBY is the Rise of the Rebellion (Introduction of Ezra Bridger, another Jedi Survivor, Ahsoka also becomes active as a Rebel agent)
0-4 ABY (Episodes 4,5,6 - Fall of the Empire)

This comment was edited on May 28, 2022, 14:23.

L3-37 and her antics were the best thing about Solo.

El Pit wrote on May 28, 2022, 04:38:

RogueSix wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:12:

fujiJuice wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:59:
BD-1 was my boy though.

Hated BD-1 just like all the "funny" or "cute" droids in Star Wars. Maybe an uncanny valley thing, I don't know, or I just grew tired of it. The first dozen times I watched the OT, I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves.
Same with super smart-ass unfunny HK-47 in KotOR or HK-51 in SWTOR. So fucking annoying. Luckily they are optional companions in those games. And BD-1 can shove his "cute" beeping. Not impressed. I wish that trash heap was optional, too.

/rant

Oh, come on, the Golden Boy and R2 were really great characters. And if K-2SO from Rogue One finds out that you don't like droids, well... You asked for it.

Well, as I said the first dozen times (or so) watching the OT I thought that Goldie and Beepie were kinda funny but then love turned into burning rage and hate . These days I rarely watch the old (let alone the newer ones) movies anymore but any time a "cute" beeping can of shit shows up it's an eye rolling moment for me. Can't help it. Those tin cans are (have become) fucking annoying to me.

Citizen P wrote on May 28, 2022, 04:03:
"I can't just be happy about a sequel to a popular game. I have to fun something to complain about, otherwise my audience won't think I'm edgy enough." I know! Droids! "Guys. I hate the droids!"

Oh, droids are not the only thing why I'm not too enthusiastic about a sequel. As I said, the game was good enough so that I, as a Star Wars fan (not as fan anymore as I once was but still...) in general, will certainly get the game on sale and play through it but JFO had its fair share of "problems" for me:

- Convoluted level design (presumably to give the shortcuts a purpose)
- Way too much backtracking. No level simply ever ended with a cutscene but after reaching the objective you always had to make the long trek back to your ship... and ideally remember the shortcuts or it would be super fucking annoying because of the respawns.
- Talking about respawns... the constant full respawns sucked... I'm not a fan of Souls-likes at all. From a narrative point of view it often times made zero sense as well that there were "reinforcements".
- The metroidvania gameplay isn't really my cup of tea or maybe it would be if you could save anywhere, but as it was, I hated the trial & error crap... can I make that jump or is it for later on when I have more skills?... then you try and you fail and everything and everyone has respawned, of course.
- The checkpoint saves could be really annoying a few times when they were spaced way apart with a jumpathon puzzle or a very hard fight in between. That one boss fight with the Sith chick was really annoying since you had to ride the same stupid elevator down to her level every time after getting killed.
- The combination of the labyrinthine level design, the insane backtracking, the metroidvania stuff and the fixed checkpoint saves was the worst part for me as it felt like artificial filler and padding just to extend game time. You probably could have finished the game in three hours without all that padding.
- The characters were all kind of meh. The only really interesting part of the narrative was the part that involved the Nightsister Merrin. I'm usually not one to be triggered by "wokeness" but JFO rubs it in the face with a white male lead, female black co-lead and an alien muppet for a pilot (to me, that guy was about as annoying as the droids btw).

The reason I will still get the sequel on sale is that the graphics will be great again, the general production quality will be awesome, there will be a sense of Star Wars atmosphere, swinging a lightstick never gets old and I'm hoping for more Merrin-like narrative stuff. But I'm not holding my breath or going to preorder or anything like that.

I'm sure Survivor could become a "good" game but just like JFO nothing special. I really hope that they will not Souls-ify the game even more due to the success of fucking Elden Ring by including even less checkpoints, harder fights and more respawns than you can shake a lightstick at. That would suck like the Sarlacc pit, man.

RogueSix wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:12:

fujiJuice wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:59:
BD-1 was my boy though.

Hated BD-1 just like all the "funny" or "cute" droids in Star Wars. Maybe an uncanny valley thing, I don't know, or I just grew tired of it. The first dozen times I watched the OT, I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves.
Same with super smart-ass unfunny HK-47 in KotOR or HK-51 in SWTOR. So fucking annoying. Luckily they are optional companions in those games. And BD-1 can shove his "cute" beeping. Not impressed. I wish that trash heap was optional, too.

/rant

Oh, come on, the Golden Boy and R2 were really great characters. And if K-2SO from Rogue One finds out that you don't like droids, well... You asked for it.

1badmf wrote on May 27, 2022, 23:48:

The Half Elf wrote on May 27, 2022, 22:43:

RogueSix wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:12:

fujiJuice wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:59:
BD-1 was my boy though.

Hated BD-1 just like all the "funny" or "cute" droids in Star Wars. Maybe an uncanny valley thing, I don't know, or I just grew tired of it. The first dozen times I watched the OT, I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves.
Same with super smart-ass unfunny HK-47 in KotOR or HK-51 in SWTOR. So fucking annoying. Luckily they are optional companions in those games. And BD-1 can shove his "cute" beeping. Not impressed. I wish that trash heap was optional, too.

/rant

I get it, I got annoyed of him jumping into containers over and over. And after Episode 9 with that Wheel droid (which has like no purpose besides 1 moment), I hated the droid.

man you guys really will gripe about anything. him jumping into containers bothered you?

i loved the shit out of fallen order. one of the first games in a long time that totally sucked me in such that i craved playing it until it was beaten. i hope they expand the scope of survivor; i don't need to save the galaxy, just more planets and environments. day one buy for sure.

and if anyone's into legos, rumor has it there will be a BD-1 lego set released in august.

I really loved the game (as typically it's not my type of game a.... lite Dark Souls type game), but going after every container BD's diving in got a little "old" after a while. Beyond that I love BD-1. But D-0 from Episode 9 annoyed me (and I love BB8 from the design and actual practical real life functional droid).

"I can't just be happy about a sequel to a popular game. I have to fun something to complain about, otherwise my audience won't think I'm edgy enough." I know! Droids! "Guys. I hate the droids!"

"I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves."
"BD-1 jumped too much" or some silliness like that.
They are basically loyal, helpful, harmless child-like souls, even Palpatine would roll his evil eyes.

For this blasphemy both Republic and Empire will join forces to hunt you down.

The Half Elf wrote on May 27, 2022, 22:43:

RogueSix wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:12:

fujiJuice wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:59:
BD-1 was my boy though.

Hated BD-1 just like all the "funny" or "cute" droids in Star Wars. Maybe an uncanny valley thing, I don't know, or I just grew tired of it. The first dozen times I watched the OT, I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves.
Same with super smart-ass unfunny HK-47 in KotOR or HK-51 in SWTOR. So fucking annoying. Luckily they are optional companions in those games. And BD-1 can shove his "cute" beeping. Not impressed. I wish that trash heap was optional, too.

/rant

I get it, I got annoyed of him jumping into containers over and over. And after Episode 9 with that Wheel droid (which has like no purpose besides 1 moment), I hated the droid.

man you guys really will gripe about anything. him jumping into containers bothered you?

i loved the shit out of fallen order. one of the first games in a long time that totally sucked me in such that i craved playing it until it was beaten. i hope they expand the scope of survivor; i don't need to save the galaxy, just more planets and environments. day one buy for sure.

and if anyone's into legos, rumor has it there will be a BD-1 lego set released in august.

The possibility of successfully navigating an empire hunting Jedi is approximately 3,720 to 1.

The Half Elf wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:05:

Orogogus wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:56:

Star Wars Jedi: Survivor is coming in 2023, offering a sequel to Star Wars Jedi: Survivor.

Should be Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order.

You mean like Star Wars Dark Forces 4, Jedi Knight 3, Jedi Outcast 2, Jedi Academy?
(been a running joke... a very long running joke about Star Wars titles)

Or... Peter Jackson's King Kong The Official Game Demo of The Official Game Peter Jackson's King Kong The Official Game of the Movie Peter Jackson's King Kong

RogueSix wrote on May 27, 2022, 19:12:

fujiJuice wrote on May 27, 2022, 18:59:
BD-1 was my boy though.

Hated BD-1 just like all the "funny" or "cute" droids in Star Wars. Maybe an uncanny valley thing, I don't know, or I just grew tired of it. The first dozen times I watched the OT, I thought 3PO and R2 were kinda funny but at some point they really started getting on my nerves.
Same with super smart-ass unfunny HK-47 in KotOR or HK-51 in SWTOR. So fucking annoying. Luckily they are optional companions in those games. And BD-1 can shove his "cute" beeping. Not impressed. I wish that trash heap was optional, too.

/rant

I get it, I got annoyed of him jumping into containers over and over. And after Episode 9 with that Wheel droid (which has like no purpose besides 1 moment), I hated the droid.

Stoked !
Love hyper talented Respawn Entertainment and their games.
(Titanfall 2 -Steam score 94%-, Call of Duty -creators as Infinity Ward and makers of some of the best iterations-).

The Jedi Fallen Order's Cal and BD-1 team are one of my top ten game characters.
One year ago 20 million gamers had played it with Steam reviews around 90%: not bad for a first sortie in the franchise.

This comment was edited on May 27, 2022, 22:08.