Rectal Prolapse wrote on May 13, 2022, 02:33:
I was merely responding to Darks' comment. Somehow fujijuice misunderstood that. That was the context.

I don't think that changes the subsequent replies to you.

You're the first person to start talking about "victims" and "victimhood" in here... which as was pointed out is an odd place to go when someone is asking for more representation in media.

Beamer wrote on May 12, 2022, 07:23:
I don't see the victims in this thread you claim to, other than those offended that a developer dared try to make a Star Wars game with a female lead

My comment is not about people in this thread. It's about the people who feel they need to be represented by characters that look like them. They have a victimhood mindset and need help.

I was merely responding to Darks' comment. Somehow fujijuice misunderstood that. That was the context.

fujiJuice wrote on May 12, 2022, 09:35:

Rectal Prolapse wrote on May 12, 2022, 02:28:
Hear hear! I am not white and I don't give a damn about "my race" being represented in any (fictional) medium. Tying my self-esteem to something as superficial as skin color and facial shape is counterproductive and a recipe for unhappiness and leads to narcissism or depression or self-destruction (or even all of them). Victimhood as a lifestyle is a dead end - that is a life lesson that some people learn the hard way. It will eat you up from the inside like a parasitic wasp, believe me on this, I've seen it.

What does this have to do with anything? Why does a story about someone not white automatically have to be a story about victomhood?

I think you completely undermined your argument by proving the bias right inside of it. You just showed us all how in your eyes if someone isn't white, they are a victim, or feel they are. Must of been how you were brought up. Hey didn't you say you weren't white?

Also demonstrates that he thinks anyone saying "he, this could be better," it means they think they're a victim.

Rectal Prolapse wrote on May 12, 2022, 02:28:
Hear hear! I am not white and I don't give a damn about "my race" being represented in any (fictional) medium. Tying my self-esteem to something as superficial as skin color and facial shape is counterproductive and a recipe for unhappiness and leads to narcissism or depression or self-destruction (or even all of them). Victimhood as a lifestyle is a dead end - that is a life lesson that some people learn the hard way. It will eat you up from the inside like a parasitic wasp, believe me on this, I've seen it.

What does this have to do with anything? Why does a story about someone not white automatically have to be a story about victomhood?

I think you completely undermined your argument by proving the bias right inside of it. You just showed us all how in your eyes if someone isn't white, they are a victim, or feel they are. Must of been how you were brought up. Hey didn't you say you weren't white?

I don't see the victims in this thread you claim to, other than those offended that a developer dared try to make a Star Wars game with a female lead

Some information and resources:
What Is a Victim Mentality?
Unraveling the Mindset of Victimhood - Focusing on grievances can be debilitating; social science points to a better way

Darks wrote on May 11, 2022, 15:09:
On a side note, I'm in San Diego, We are very diverse here. I have a lot of Hispanic, Black and Asian friends, and they all play game's and I have never once heard them say anything about not being represented in a game. They love playing games, and that's what this should really be about.

Hear hear! I am not white and I don't give a damn about "my race" being represented in any (fictional) medium. Tying my self-esteem to something as superficial as skin color and facial shape is counterproductive and a recipe for unhappiness and leads to narcissism or depression or self-destruction (or even all of them). Victimhood as a lifestyle is a dead end - that is a life lesson that some people learn the hard way. It will eat you up from the inside like a parasitic wasp, believe me on this, I've seen it.

I feel sorry for those whose self-respect/self-esteem hinges on how physically alike to themselves an artist's character is drawn (or written). It should speak to their inner being. Not the outer superficial body! (Is that buddhist?)

I also grew up in a very diverse neighborhood, like Darks. None of my non-white ethnic newly immigrant friends had any issues with any of the characters of the videogames we played. Nor with the movies they've watched. But I guess back then we didn't have a victimhood indoctrination squad to tell us how horrible it must be to live among the whites*. Oh how ignorant we were - and how much better we were for that.

* No, our lives were not like the Koreans living in Japan from the AppleTV series, Pachinko. There is a reason why our parents chose North America to emigrate to.

This comment was edited on May 12, 2022, 02:38.

Darks wrote on May 11, 2022, 13:56:

Beamer wrote on May 11, 2022, 12:51:

Cutter wrote on May 11, 2022, 12:36:
And? What's wrong with that? If your target demographic is 99% white male that's who you sell to. It's a business venture not a political statement.

If you only make products for one group, you never grow your audience.
Derp.

Not buying that for one second. That's like saying because I'm white that Ill never go and watch a Blade movie or Black Panther movies or Luke Cage or any other Black type chars all becasue they are Black and I'm white.

Seriously dude, SMH!!

Depends on which Blade movies and which season of Luke Cage

I also don't like brussels sprouts.

I suppose a better analogy would be that I don't like the way they made the character. I guess I really don't want a life-like representation in my video games. Not to be antagonistic, but the picture attached doesn't look like the actor either.

Game was fun. Would have been just as fun if it was a black, female, and/or alien character.

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on May 11, 2022, 18:32. Reason: Intolerance (rule 2)

Scutty wrote on May 11, 2022, 17:53:
I played the game when it came out on game pass a while back. I didn't like the main character, his features looked cartoonish, therefore I had a disconnect to the character.

Sick burn, lol... They literally take a high-res scan of the dude's head for the model and record exact facial movements while he delivers lines, that's how big budget games (and movies/shows where the actor is digitized) are made now. You may have an especially strong uncanny valley reaction if it bothers you enough to not want to play. https://i.redd.it/77jt168j73s21.jpg

I played the game when it came out on game pass a while back. I didn't like the main character, his features looked cartoonish, therefore I had a disconnect to the character. Same with the berserker in Lost Ark. Loved the class, hated the model and animations of the character, so I played a sorceress instead (after trying several classes to see what felt right).
As others have said, a character creator is so common now that it seems inexcusable not to have some options. Also, as far a cutscenes and such and the difficulty of adding a custom character, I play a lot of older games (Star Trek Online for example) that uses my custom character in some cut scenes, and I doubt the STO guys have the budget of EA.

Having more diversity in the lead character selection would have definitely kept me engaged.

Beamer wrote on May 11, 2022, 14:12:
People feel included when they see people like them in a community. If you do not have female gaming characters, you have fewer female gamers. It's a basic function of human nature.

As an off-shoot of that point, there's huge value in seeing someone that looks like you.

Most video game characters are attractive, fit and white. Other than the skin color, that's nothing like me, and that doesn't bother me. I play games to escape reality, not be myself. Maybe Gordon Freeman is the closest video game character like me (white and nerdy). You don't actually see him in-game and he is a silent protagonists, so you could play the game and pretend he's whatever you want.

Beamer wrote on May 11, 2022, 14:12:
So yes. All of this is actually kind of important.

The only thing important about a game is, is it fun. I don't care what the character I'm playing looks like or what genitals are between its legs. If someone won't play a game because of any of that, or complains about it, well, that's kind of sad.

Real character creation wouldn't have worked for this game. The cut-scenes were clearly mo-capped for the facial movements. That doesn't work if the face geometry changes. About all you could do is change skin color or hair-style.

I think their reasoning for not having a female lead is pretty good, considering the main films already had one. What everyone seems to be ignoring is that they did go for diversity by having a red-head. And yes, I'm being serious. Just check out all the rude comments about red-heads when the character was announced.

Fun-fact: For a while, Luke was female. You can see this in some of the original pre-production art.

Rilcon wrote on May 11, 2022, 15:51:
On a more serious note, might've been a good thing they didn't; at least I found the MC fairly unlikable.

BD-1 is the best character in the game. I'm surprised they haven't made a mini game or something with them.

smh, people really don't want to see gingers in media huh?

/s

On a more serious note, might've been a good thing they didn't; at least I found the MC fairly unlikable.

Darks wrote on May 11, 2022, 15:09:
I'm not going to quote the wall of text. and yes, I hear what you are saying, but then again there is a Hugh difference in the demographic comparison to white versus blacks in the US. 12 percent being Black, over 60 percent being white. And honestly, I don't hear the Hispanics or Asians complaining about his.

On a side note, I'm in San Diego, We are very diverse here. I have a lot of Hispanic, Black and Asian friends, and they all play game's and I have never once heard them say anything about not being represented in a game. They love playing games, and that's what this should really be about.

As someone already said, Char creation, allow the player to choose who they want to look like and be in the game. Problem solved!

You do hear it from other ethnicities, though. Asians are at least well represented in Eastern games. But again, when Encanto came out, the hispanic community was endlessly praising it. Similarly, when Turning Red came out, the Asian community went nuts for it. Even more for Eveything Everywhere All at Once, or Crazy Rich Asians, both of which were very well regarded but heavily propped up by Asians ecstatic to finally be represented.

The article wasn't just about ethnicity, though, also about women, who are over 50% of the population.

And a character creation doesn't really do it, because then you're not entirely a character, you're a creation. It doesn't give everyone the same character, so no normalization, and it doesn't have the impact on others to see themselves being put forward in a major property. And, of course, the advertising will feature a default, and we know what that default will look like. Heck, Mass Effect let you do quite a bit with Sheppard, but we all know what Sheppard actually looked like.

I'm not going to quote the wall of text. and yes, I hear what you are saying, but then again there is a Hugh difference in the demographic comparison to white versus blacks in the US. 12 percent being Black, over 60 percent being white. And honestly, I don't hear the Hispanics or Asians complaining about his.

On a side note, I'm in San Diego, We are very diverse here. I have a lot of Hispanic, Black and Asian friends, and they all play game's and I have never once heard them say anything about not being represented in a game. They love playing games, and that's what this should really be about.

As someone already said, Char creation, allow the player to choose who they want to look like and be in the game. Problem solved!