William Rubin wrote on Mar 1, 2022, 22:00:

Razumen wrote on Mar 1, 2022, 19:23:
I'll leave the rest of your intentionally inflammatory accusations in the dumpster fire of ignobilty like it rightly deserves.

Deflection translation: I have no sophistry to deflect from my raging narcissism and desire to scream at black folk who dare demand the same options as white people.

Nowhere have I done either. But please, continue screaming and flinging your fetid droppings at the void. It's certainty entertaining at the very least.

Razumen wrote on Mar 1, 2022, 19:23:
I'll leave the rest of your intentionally inflammatory accusations in the dumpster fire of ignobilty like it rightly deserves.

Deflection translation: I have no sophistry to deflect from my raging narcissism and desire to scream at black folk who dare demand the same options as white people.

William Rubin wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 12:01:

Razumen wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 05:25:
What "white" art? You can adjust the facial structure in the game. The article also clearly shows someone made a black character. Clearly you don't even know what you're arguing about now.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

The article clearly states it is possible to create a dark skinned character, but if you want to give it "black" features the options are inadequate, and explains exactly how that is the case. But somehow, clearly I'm the one who doesn't understand what's going on.

Listen, you and your morally defective buddies are cool with separate and unequal, because that's the legacy of outright racism you've decided to carry on. Why don't you just own up to it?

Yeah, I read the article, it complains about a lack of hair options, which is a totally legitimate criticism, but it has nothing to do with making a black character based on "white art". So ya, you're either intentionally making bullshit up, or you really are clueless.

I'll leave the rest of your intentionally inflammatory accusations in the dumpster fire of ignobilty like it rightly deserves.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 1, 2022, 16:58:

Hardline Mike wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 20:37:

bigspender wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 19:43:
Games never have enough of these options regardless. I usually end up with a helmet though.

Nice edit.

Nice catch, but also nice of BS to self edit.

Awe
He edited all the cray cray out of it.

Hardline Mike wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 20:37:

bigspender wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 19:43:
Games never have enough of these options regardless. I usually end up with a helmet though.

Nice edit.

Nice catch, but also nice of BS to self edit.

bigspender wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 19:43:
Games never have enough of these options regardless. I usually end up with a helmet though.

Nice edit.

Games never have enough of these options regardless. I usually end up with a helmet though.

This comment was edited on Feb 28, 2022, 20:34.

Beamer wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:56:

jdreyer wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:11:

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 14:56:
Excessive interest in her physical (and digital) appearance? Checkbox.

Oh, come on. Someone likes playing with character creators automatically makes them a narcissistic? That's quite a stretch. Customizing avatars, whether to look like yourself or someone else, is just game play. I've done quite a bit of that myself in games like ME. Billions of people put on make up every day while looking at themselves in the mirror. Are they all narcissists?

I almost always make the most grotesque character that the creator will let me.
But, when 90% of characters already basically look like me, it's fun to have the exception. So, if exceedingly few looked like me, I'd almost definitely gravitate towards ones that do.

I tried to make my ME avatar look like me for a couple hours. The closest I could get was looking like someone who had lost way too many kickboxing fights. It was not pretty. No idea how they got the default to look like Affleck.

jdreyer wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:11:

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 14:56:
Excessive interest in her physical (and digital) appearance? Checkbox.

Oh, come on. Someone likes playing with character creators automatically makes them a narcissistic? That's quite a stretch. Customizing avatars, whether to look like yourself or someone else, is just game play. I've done quite a bit of that myself in games like ME. Billions of people put on make up every day while looking at themselves in the mirror. Are they all narcissists?

I almost always make the most grotesque character that the creator will let me.
But, when 90% of characters already basically look like me, it's fun to have the exception. So, if exceedingly few looked like me, I'd almost definitely gravitate towards ones that do.

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:54:
[hy·poc·ri·sy /həˈpäkrəsē/ noun: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

How dare you call me a conservative!

William Rubin wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:52:

jdreyer wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:11:
Oh, come on. Someone likes playing with character creators automatically makes them a narcissistic?

It doesn't take much to look down on *certain kinds* of people.

hy·poc·ri·sy /həˈpäkrəsē/ noun: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

jdreyer wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 17:11:
Oh, come on. Someone likes playing with character creators automatically makes them a narcissistic?

It doesn't take much to look down on *certain kinds* of people.

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 14:56:
Excessive interest in her physical (and digital) appearance? Checkbox.

Oh, come on. Someone likes playing with character creators automatically makes them a narcissistic? That's quite a stretch. Customizing avatars, whether to look like yourself or someone else, is just game play. I've done quite a bit of that myself in games like ME. Billions of people put on make up every day while looking at themselves in the mirror. Are they all narcissists?

And it's a mystery why she feels that way huh?

What's fundamentally wrong with people like you is that you pretend history and cultural forces don't matter when it comes to black people. The society she lives in affects her life and molds her experiences.

It's a basic realization when you accept that she's actually a human being.

William Rubin wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 16:14:

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 14:56:

William Rubin wrote on Feb 27, 2022, 14:45:
Why doesn't that bother you as much as black players saying they want to do what white players already can?

nar·cis·sism /ˈnärsəˌsizəm/ noun: excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
...

Didn't even bother to try to answer the question!

What bothers me is this:

"Make no mistake, America delights in reminding me daily that I am a Black woman and that it, through the systems that spawned and continue to define it, utterly hates me and other marginalized people."

That's quite the sentence to write, and terrible for this young woman if she feels that way.

So, yes, I do not feel bothered to answer your questions. If that makes YOU feel terrible, well, I guess you should adjust your expectations on what you deserve from random people on the internet.

theglaze wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 14:56:

William Rubin wrote on Feb 27, 2022, 14:45:
Why doesn't that bother you as much as black players saying they want to do what white players already can?

nar·cis·sism /ˈnärsəˌsizəm/ noun: excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.
...

Didn't even bother to try to answer the question!

William Rubin wrote on Feb 27, 2022, 14:45:

theglaze wrote on Feb 27, 2022, 13:07:
I agree. Devs should cater to narcissists of all types, so each player can change their hero to look exactly like them, and truly admire their meta-self. That's why I only read books in which the protagonist has my name. I'm just flabbergasted that authors dare to write about anyone else.

If it's narcissism when black players want to be able to play black characters but can't, how much more narcissistic is it when white players actually do that? And therefore more importantly, why doesn't that bother you as much as black players saying they want to do what white players already can?

nar·cis·sism /ˈnärsəˌsizəm/ noun: excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one's physical appearance.

• "I tinkered with it for a good hour, setting my sliders just right to make an avatar that I think looks as much like me as I can get."
• "I’m a character creator aficionado. It’s an enduring obsession born from the days of the dress-up flash games in the early aughts."
• "Playing with a character creator is one of my favorite forms of expression."
• "I delight in fiddling with them...I can test new hairstyles and makeup colors that I could then use on my real flesh."
• "I remember tooling with a Picrew game, testing what a nearly bald head might look like on me. I enjoyed it so much that when I cut off my hair for real"

Excessive interest in her physical (and digital) appearance? Checkbox.

Razumen wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 05:25:
What "white" art? You can adjust the facial structure in the game. The article also clearly shows someone made a black character. Clearly you don't even know what you're arguing about now.

You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

The article clearly states it is possible to create a dark skinned character, but if you want to give it "black" features the options are inadequate, and explains exactly how that is the case. But somehow, clearly I'm the one who doesn't understand what's going on.

Listen, you and your morally defective buddies are cool with separate and unequal, because that's the legacy of outright racism you've decided to carry on. Why don't you just own up to it?

fakespyder wrote on Feb 27, 2022, 14:50:
I had to look "kinky" up because I thought....well, you know.
Turns out it is an actual style of hair and not a sexual thing.
kind'a disappointed

For a kinky hairdo, just look down.

And we aren't all entirely homo sapiens in our reactions and demeanor.
I would swear that Cutter is homo chihuahua.

This comment was edited on Feb 28, 2022, 10:08.

Jonjonz wrote on Feb 28, 2022, 06:35:
Some folks just don't get it, make options to create stereo-typical racial / life style types and become labeled rascist / homophobic and soon have your game littered with intentionally objectionable avatars.

Perhaps a lifelike avatar of Michael Spinks complete with missing teeth, think again.

How about a look alike of the Watto character in Star Wars wearing a Yamaka.

Bent out of shape because you can't recreate Divine (Harris Glenn Milstead) in the character creator?

These are simply games meant to be marketed to the broadest possible market while offending the fewest folk possible.

They are not "the man" out to get ________ (choose a minority, sexual kink, or other stereo type)

Yeah no one here is making that argument except for possibly Cutter. It's not a matter of them being the "man" out out to get me or anyone else. It is that there are far fewer white hair options for black people that we would be interested in putting on our black characters that actually match the kind of actual hair we have. It is a problem that has existed for a long time in video games and the disparity between that and the myriad of options for white characters is actually kind of jarring. It is not only a From Software problem either. It's in many video games with character customization.

But just to highlight how out of touch with reality some gamers can be: I am from Barbados where the majority of my gamer friends are black. One time when a white/Chinese friend of mine was showing off the Mass Effect 2 character creator, he let me have a go at it (didn't have the game yet). So I started to create my character...and he stopped me in the middle of it saying "Why are you creating a black character? Everybody creates a black character and they all look the same?"

So right there you have 2 issues. 1) He was being incredibly racially insensitive because almost everybody present was black. And 2) It was obvious that the character creator wasn't adequate enough to give a range of options to create the kind of black characters we would have wanted...even though the ME 2 character creator was lauded as pretty decent at the time.

It also shows that Cutter was talking nonsense when he said that black people don't care what type of characters we create. Obviously we care and want to create a character that we can roleplay with and identify with. And that's really all it's about. No one is saying anything other than that gaming companies can do better. And that they should do better in the future.