Jedi Fallen Order got me into Souls-like games, I even beat it on highest difficulty but that's still easy compared to Dark Souls.
I started Dark Souls a couple of times in the last decade but never really got into it until the switch port came along. I loved Sekiro but never finished it due to other games on my list.

Sepharo wrote on Feb 24, 2022, 01:41:
I'm also not a fan of like Mario Maker like platforming games where you need to memorize a bunch of difficult jumps and traps over a hundred plus attempts.
My personal theory is that people who like that kind of gameplay grew up with consoles as kids and "beat" games.

Most if not all of those ridiculous Mario Maker maps you see are not representative of the actual generation the games come from. In fact I'd argue most of those maps are just badly designed.

Trial and error itself however is a fundamental part of games. When you don't need to experiment and try different things yourself to see what works, but instead just succeed the first time every time, it is no longer a game you're playing.

Jim wrote on Feb 24, 2022, 00:13:
It is not a JRPG where you have to memorize button combinations.

?
Are you thinking of fighting games maybe?
JRPGS are menus of options like this:
-Attack
-Magic
-Item
Nothing to memorize.

Personally I'm not a fan of Roll-Block-Attack ... Block-Attack-Roll "trial-and-error" gameplay.
I'm also not a fan of like Mario Maker like platforming games where you need to memorize a bunch of difficult jumps and traps over a hundred plus attempts.
My personal theory is that people who like that kind of gameplay grew up with consoles as kids and "beat" games.
I'm not really trying to make this a console vs PC master race thing... but I just didn't have the 8 and 16bit generation consoles... I grew up on capital-A Adventure games (narrative, exploration, and puzzles) and First Person Shooters (both SP and MP) ... neither of which are really what I consider these "trial-and-error" type genres.
I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys those types of games... but personally I just find the gameplay super tedious and boring.

Scores like these happen with the release of almost every big name game that's received well. I'm sure it's a fine game, but to me it just looks like a prettier, more open, Dark Souls.

Nothing wrong with that, but I've seen threads full of people claiming it's the best game since ever due to these inflated. When really what it actually is, is the best DARK SOULS game since ever.

Desalus wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 23:33:
... I've never understood why these games have been as popular as they have been.
... I hated my experience so much that I permanently removed the game from my Steam account. It honestly amazes me to this day that a piss poor game like Dark Souls (I can imagine Demon Souls was even worse) gathered such a huge following of fans.
...

Having played most FS games including Demon Souls, I'll clarify for you.
Some love surmounting the difficulties. I don't, I use cheat engine and kill bosses easily, from afar, I even played DS3 modded, with an AK47 in 1st person.
I love the world creation, its lore and terrible beauty. Evidently you don't find anything of that, and it's ok.
And you will never understand, don't worry.
What *I* don't get is your stressing you lack of comprehension.
Do you understand classic music, or rap, machismo, feminism or LGBT culture. Do you need to, to accept preferences as human as yours?

For example, I don't like any sports, not one.
But would never be as obtuse as to say sports are boring, meaningless, etc.
On the contrary, I enjoy looking some great moments on the news, and vicariously, the charming enthusiasm of fans, following and laughing in some sport forums from time to time.

phinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 16:33:

Prez wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 16:19:
Now all I have to do is wait for the easy mode

An easy mode would ruin these games and genre. The difficulty isn’t bad at all it’s “just right” in that you feel a sense of accomplishment after tackling a boss after couple tries learning the fight. Besides, you can always summon another person or AI for some jolly cooperation.

I was being ironic. It is very obvious From Software have no intention of providing an easy mode after so many games, not to mention how much that particular horse has been beaten...

jdreyer wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 18:11:

eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 17:37:

jdreyer wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 13:33:

HorrorScope wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 12:42:

Fion wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 12:31:
I think I'd really like this game, sadly I just don't have the reflexes I once did, so I will probably skip it. I hit a wall in Sekiro I simply could not get passed, and while this game doesn't seem to require the same millisecond timing that one did, these reviews are still all talking about how the reviewer spent 5+ minutes taking out a single boss after hours of attempts... on the first boss. That kind of grind and precision just isn't in me anymore as a gamer.

Fion food for thought as I'm the same. I use cheatengine speedhack on many single player games and you can map keys to say 70%, 100% and 130% speed. So if something is difficult in an action way, I can press a button for bullet time like effect to make it easier for me to pull off, or say a game with a lot of travel here and there, I hit the 130% button to get to point B quicker. Point is a little tool that can make some things more bearable for you. Overall I use the speed up more to make the games move along faster.

I need something like that for Rogue Legacy.

Takes like 20 seconds to do with Cheat Engine

I wish they'd just make it a setting. Unreal Tournament had a speed setting back in 2000. SupCom, too: 2005.

Well they don't and this work with almost any SP game made. I'm sure WeMod will have something very soon as well, something like unlimited stamina etc.

Desalus wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 23:33:
Are the only people that review FromSoftware games the ones that are fans of Souls games? Is there not one person who reviewed Elden Ring game and thought it it wasn't worth playing? I see a lot of people like me in the comments, who really don't enjoy games like this, and yet none of these reviewers reflect these same sentiments.

what you are saying doesn't make sense. if someone does not like this genre, then how can they objectively review the game? For the people that do like the genre, FromSoft have continued to deliver fantastic games.

DS1 (or better, DS Remastered) is a slow methodical game. It is not a JRPG where you have to memorize button combinations. It is more about positioning, attacking, blocking or dodging, and learning to read the tells. You can never steamroll the game, even low level enemies can kill you if you get sloppy and surrounded.

Although at some point you realize that after you have cleared an area for the first time you can pretty much run to the boss. You can get overpowered early, in the graveyard there is a zweihander. It literally pancakes human sized enemies. Boost stats to equip it and it becomes fun and you can use it for the rest of the game (but then almost all weapons are endgame viable).

What makes DS1 so satisfying is conquering areas that were formerly impossible (or difficult). That is why people love the game.

Are the only people that review FromSoftware games the ones that are fans of Souls games? Is there not one person who reviewed Elden Ring game and thought it it wasn't worth playing? I see a lot of people like me in the comments, who really don't enjoy games like this, and yet none of these reviewers reflect these same sentiments.

I've never understood why these games have been as popular as they have been. I played Dark Souls when it came out on PC and remember being very surprised by the comparatively (in 2012) awful character models, stiff animations, archaic RPG game design, ugly UI, bad graphics, nonexistent story, and punishing gameplay. After numerous attempts at the second boss, having to retread the same area repeatedly just to reach it, and puzzled at how I was even supposed to approach the boss without getting killed in one hit, I decided that was enough for me. I hated my experience so much that I permanently removed the game from my Steam account. It honestly amazes me to this day that a piss poor game like Dark Souls (I can imagine Demon Souls was even worse) gathered such a huge following of fans.

I have too many games to play, to little time, and too little patience for games that are this punishing. I don't understand people who often feel rage, anger, and immense frustration while playing Souls games and yet in the end they still say they thought the game was great and they had really rewarding experience.

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 21:29:

bigspender wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 20:56:

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 19:06:
I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

30 FPS is borderline unplayable, you do get used to it but it did take away from the bloodborne experience. I'd be complaining too.

But complaining about a consistent and tight 60 FPS... it's smooth as, frame time and consistency makes things feel smooth. Yeah it could be better at 120 FPS. But let's not pretend like the game is losing anything from being 60 FPS. You can still run it at 144hz refresh for less eye strain.

You're really doing yourself a disservice by missing out on game of the year decade... over a minor gripe. It's certainly not going to affect their bottom line.


Anyway some one on pc will unlock it like they did with the other DS games.

My monitor broke a while back and I had to use a 60hz one for two weeks. I had a headache every game night. Once you go 144, yoi can't go back. 60 will feel fucking unplayable. And for a game where every fraction of a second can be a moment between life and death, that's unacceptable. It's also lazy and a remnant from that fossil of an engine they apparently use.

But hey. It's FromSoftware, right? Fucking blasphemy!

You can still do 144hz on the monitor, with 60fps. And it'll look and feel smoother than 60hz.

The FPS and Hz aren't necessarily tied together

jdreyer wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 20:38:

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 18:13:

eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 17:51:

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 17:42:
Since I'm not sure I want to read a review atm, according to the Steam Store Page, the game is Online PvP and Online Coop.
So is it one or the other, or are the publisher/developer lying to try to get more sales?
I'd be down for something Coop but PvP.

multiplayer is almost exactly like previous Souls entries say the reviews

I honestly don't know what that means because I've never play previous Souls games or know their online gameplay.
Basically, this is in the news and I'm wondering if it's real Coop, i.e. no Friendly Fire.
Or maybe this is just another example of developer lying saying Coop = Team Deathmatch.

Dying Light 2 was a fail for me because of drm and now I find that Shadow Warrior 3 is single player only.
So I'm still looking for a new Coop game.

Did you know Far Cry 3 has a coop mode?

Thanks for replies. I do know about Far Cry 3 but it's not really the main game. It's more like extra missions (with different npcs, iirc) and you have to play through ubicrap.

Atm I'm playing a new genre for myself and I think it's similar to Souls type games but I'm having a pretty good time, called Vermintide 2.
It's got lots of hordes similar to but not nearly as big as Days Gone (I use the 999 size hordes in Days Gone).
Instead of open world, V2 is map/mission based but the hordes spawn way too often, imo.

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 21:29:
...
My monitor broke a while back and I had to use a 60hz one for two weeks. I had a headache every game night. ...

Ok, very valid point *for you* not the rest, as it may be a wiring/circuit/quality problem of the monitor you used, or a body problem inherent to you.
Normally I play some 8 hours or more straight per day, with 60, no problemo whatsoever.
It's like VR very rapid movement, some can, some can't, it's what it is.
But please don't transfer that to the not affected as if they were crazy, most and I mean *most* don't care about it.

Those who won't play because it's difficult, what's the matter with you ?
Are you somewhat dumb (but lovable!) ?

- Go get the FLING trainer at :
https://flingtrainer.com/
It *will* come out, with tens of modifications, anything you could want.
****Beware: for safety, go to no other place that mentions FLING****

- Or use Cheat Engine: github.com has sites for all the Dark Souls games.
And obviously, there will be one for Elden Ring.
From bullet-time to surgically kill the bosses, to jump higher, teleport, cross closed doors (save first), infinite arrows or spells, level up quicker, etc. etc.

- Get the save anywhere mod that has come out for all Dark Souls games.
This alone decreases the game difficulty a hundred times.
Nexus mods ! And dozens more mods will come out.

Holy Jebus !

bigspender wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 20:56:

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 19:06:
I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

30 FPS is borderline unplayable, you do get used to it but it did take away from the bloodborne experience. I'd be complaining too.

But complaining about a consistent and tight 60 FPS... it's smooth as, frame time and consistency makes things feel smooth. Yeah it could be better at 120 FPS. But let's not pretend like the game is losing anything from being 60 FPS. You can still run it at 144hz refresh for less eye strain.

You're really doing yourself a disservice by missing out on game of the year decade... over a minor gripe. It's certainly not going to affect their bottom line.


Anyway some one on pc will unlock it like they did with the other DS games.

My monitor broke a while back and I had to use a 60hz one for two weeks. I had a headache every game night. Once you go 144, yoi can't go back. 60 will feel fucking unplayable. And for a game where every fraction of a second can be a moment between life and death, that's unacceptable. It's also lazy and a remnant from that fossil of an engine they apparently use.

But hey. It's FromSoftware, right? Fucking blasphemy!

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 19:06:
I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

30 FPS is borderline unplayable, you do get used to it but it did take away from the bloodborne experience. I'd be complaining too.

But complaining about a consistent and tight 60 FPS... it's smooth as, frame time and consistency makes things feel smooth. Yeah it could be better at 120 FPS. But let's not pretend like the game is losing anything from being 60 FPS. You can still run it at 144hz refresh for less eye strain.

You're really doing yourself a disservice by missing out on game of the year decade... over a minor gripe. It's certainly not going to affect their bottom line.


Anyway some one on pc will unlock it like they did with the other DS games.

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 19:06:
I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

Won't someone mod that out?

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 18:13:

eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 17:51:

Acleacius wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 17:42:
Since I'm not sure I want to read a review atm, according to the Steam Store Page, the game is Online PvP and Online Coop.
So is it one or the other, or are the publisher/developer lying to try to get more sales?
I'd be down for something Coop but PvP.

multiplayer is almost exactly like previous Souls entries say the reviews

I honestly don't know what that means because I've never play previous Souls games or know their online gameplay.
Basically, this is in the news and I'm wondering if it's real Coop, i.e. no Friendly Fire.
Or maybe this is just another example of developer lying saying Coop = Team Deathmatch.

Dying Light 2 was a fail for me because of drm and now I find that Shadow Warrior 3 is single player only.
So I'm still looking for a new Coop game.

Did you know Far Cry 3 has a coop mode?

Quinn wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 19:06:
I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

Damn you current generation consoles! lol

I just heard from SkillUp that the game is capped at 60fps. Fuck that shit. And naturally the Souls cult will somehow think that's OK. Fuck off. Cancelled my pre-order.

Verno wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 13:44:

Fion wrote on Feb 23, 2022, 12:31:
I think I'd really like this game, sadly I just don't have the reflexes I once did, so I will probably skip it. I hit a wall in Sekiro I simply could not get passed, and while this game doesn't seem to require the same millisecond timing that one did, these reviews are still all talking about how the reviewer spent 5+ minutes taking out a single boss after hours of attempts... on the first boss. That kind of grind and precision just isn't in me anymore as a gamer.

You don't need super reflexes to play these, I'm an old man and I beat Sekiro. These are far slower paced and game reviewers are notoriously bad at videogames so just take the plunge. You can always summon help if you can't solo something. The difficulty in these things is highly overrated and people just talk themselves out of it. They are challenging but mostly fair.

Exactly. My reflexes aren't as quick and accurate as they used to be but I think that a lot of new players tend to hit a wall with the Souls-like games where just because your character can do a 3 or 4-hit chain attack combo doesn't mean that they should in these types of games. Going for button-mashing will get you destroyed quickly and those who learn the combat system eventually find out (through trial-and-error) that the combat system (especially early on when you're at your most fragile) is mostly about timing and doing 1 or 2 attacks to gauge your weapon distance and to learn patterns. It's less about hyper-quick reflexes and more about being methodical and knowing WHEN to attack and knowing attack patterns. And that adds a surprising amount of nuance and depth to a combat system where most other action RPGs would allow you to blindly button-mash your way through to the end.

Some people have literally beaten these Dark Souls games with attached drum kits, bongos or even blind-folded - which says a lot about how timing and knowing enemy attack patterns means a lot for these types of games and less about super-hyper-quick reflexes.

From what I've read, Elden Ring seems like the "easiest" From Software game so perhaps this game will be a good entry-point for those who are curious about all the hype for these types of games.

This comment was edited on Feb 23, 2022, 19:10.