Out of the Blue

Man, I spoke too soon in expressing my excitement about Saturday's NFL playoff games, as yesterday's topped them. I'm sure there's some recency bias here, but I'm having a tough time thinking the Bills/Chiefs game wasn't the most exciting game in league history. I saw it all with my own eyes, but I'm still having trouble believing it.

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35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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35.
 
Crazy NFL weekend!
Jan 25, 2022, 21:55
Ant
 
35.
Crazy NFL weekend! Jan 25, 2022, 21:55
Jan 25, 2022, 21:55
 Ant
 
It was great. Go LA Rams.
Avatar 1957
34.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 25, 2022, 17:22
34.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 25, 2022, 17:22
Jan 25, 2022, 17:22
 
thestryker wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 19:07:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 15:00:
thestryker wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 14:37:
The game was amazing, but yet again shows that sudden death should have no place in the NFL.

Growing up watching football I thought it was absurd that a team could just get into field goal range and win because they'd won the toss. When they changed that, in I think '09, to only safety/TD ends it I wondered why they didn't go all the way. Since then we've had multiple key seasonal/playoff games decided by a coin toss and that will never sit well with me.
It's not guaranteed that the team that gets the ball first will score a TD. Someone has to go first. What would you prefer? 10 minutes of OT, and then let the score determine the winner? Give each team one drive? Especially due to the lack of granularity in football scoring, the potential for games to drag on for another hour or two in OT is pretty high. Sudden death prevents that. Football games are already quite a bit longer than a lot of matches in other sports. OT making games 4-5 hours would be pretty bad.

The change that FCS made this year seems like a very good, and fair, way to do it (overtime periods end after both teams score):
  • Beginning with the second overtime period, teams must attempt a two-point conversion after scoring a touchdown.
  • Beginning with the third overtime period, teams will begin to run alternating two-point conversion plays instead of offensive possessions.
Could even skip the first "normal" overtime period and force two point conversion attempt if touchdowns are scored and then switch to the shootout if both teams are still tied after the first period.

NFL under the current overtime rules (in place since 2010, regular season games has been since 2012):
11 OT playoff games, winner of the coin toss has 10-1 record, and of those 10, 7 were first drive touchdowns. As a fan I don't know how anyone could defend such an obviously bad system.

Edit: The competition committee has never seriously considered any real changes to the overtime rules despite KC and Baltimore coming up with reasonable changes in the last few years.
Great post and stats, thanks Stryker. With the coin toss essentially determining the outcome, yeah, I agree. Bad system.
I'm a smoldering volcano of virility. At least, that's what I tell myself.
Avatar 22024
33.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 25, 2022, 08:22
33.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 25, 2022, 08:22
Jan 25, 2022, 08:22
 
Jivaro wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 22:22:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 14:53:
That Buffalo-KS game was literally determined by the OT coin toss. Whichever team got the ball first was going to to score a TD. The trend in recent years is that the playoff games are far superior to the SB these days. I wonder why that is.

I think both teams get a chance to score at the beginning of the OT period, and if tied after that you keep playing sudden death until someone wins. I don't understand why it seems so complicated for the NFL. It should have been that way all along. Nobody likes ties, do away with them and have all OT end like this. In my opinion anyway.

As for playoff games being better than the actual SB, it has nearly always been that way. Familiarity breeds good football I guess?
Wrong mentality. Or at least so the NFL seems to think so, I agree. My initial thought when regulation ends in a tie is usually one of three things about one of the teams,

1) "Dudes, you should have put this away a long time ago."
2) "Damn, you got lucky to tie this up."
3) "Wow, you really fucked up. This should be over."

The third applies to the Bills. Squib the kick, rush three, double the receiver who had the most receptions, yards, and TDs in the regular season.

This comment was edited on Jan 25, 2022, 10:12.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
32.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 25, 2022, 07:57
32.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 25, 2022, 07:57
Jan 25, 2022, 07:57
 
Wordle 220 3/6

⬛🟨🟨⬛⬛
🟩🟨⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
31.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 25, 2022, 07:06
31.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 25, 2022, 07:06
Jan 25, 2022, 07:06
 
Wordle 220 3/6
- At this point, Windows is the OS equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome. -
Burrito of Peace
Avatar 58135
30.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 22:22
Jivaro
 
30.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 22:22
Jan 24, 2022, 22:22
 Jivaro
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 14:53:
That Buffalo-KS game was literally determined by the OT coin toss. Whichever team got the ball first was going to to score a TD. The trend in recent years is that the playoff games are far superior to the SB these days. I wonder why that is.

I think both teams get a chance to score at the beginning of the OT period, and if tied after that you keep playing sudden death until someone wins. I don't understand why it seems so complicated for the NFL. It should have been that way all along. Nobody likes ties, do away with them and have all OT end like this. In my opinion anyway.

As for playoff games being better than the actual SB, it has nearly always been that way. Familiarity breeds good football I guess?
Avatar 55841
29.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning uTurns but why not reverse gear....
Jan 24, 2022, 21:00
29.
Re: OotB: Stunning uTurns but why not reverse gear.... Jan 24, 2022, 21:00
Jan 24, 2022, 21:00
 
Beamer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:45:
subx wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:41:

Batman: I'm still amazed that they've managed to make the mask look as stupid as it does, and doubly amazed that a room full of people must have agreed that it was a good idea.

In the trailer linked? I hardly saw it there, but it looked fine to me. I mean, it's a guy fighting in a giant bat mask, it's going to look stupid, right? Ha.

Looks more like Catwoman than Batman to me
28.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 20:26
28.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 20:26
Jan 24, 2022, 20:26
 
Heard a great quote about the Bills/KC game. "Neither of these offenses deserved to lose. Neither of these defenses deserved to win." Which speaks well to the nature of the OT rules. If you want to win, stop someone. It is not just an offensive game.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
27.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 19:26
27.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 19:26
Jan 24, 2022, 19:26
 
thestryker wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 19:07:
NFL under the current overtime rules (in place since 2010, regular season games has been since 2012):
11 OT playoff games, winner of the coin toss has 10-1 record, and of those 10, 7 were first drive touchdowns. As a fan I don't know how anyone could defend such an obviously bad system.

Edit: The competition committee has never seriously considered any real changes to the overtime rules despite KC and Baltimore coming up with reasonable changes in the last few years.
Good stats -- doesn't change my opinion. Squib the kick. Win the game. No team ever lost a game because of a coin toss.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
26.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 19:07
26.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 19:07
Jan 24, 2022, 19:07
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 15:00:
thestryker wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 14:37:
The game was amazing, but yet again shows that sudden death should have no place in the NFL.

Growing up watching football I thought it was absurd that a team could just get into field goal range and win because they'd won the toss. When they changed that, in I think '09, to only safety/TD ends it I wondered why they didn't go all the way. Since then we've had multiple key seasonal/playoff games decided by a coin toss and that will never sit well with me.
It's not guaranteed that the team that gets the ball first will score a TD. Someone has to go first. What would you prefer? 10 minutes of OT, and then let the score determine the winner? Give each team one drive? Especially due to the lack of granularity in football scoring, the potential for games to drag on for another hour or two in OT is pretty high. Sudden death prevents that. Football games are already quite a bit longer than a lot of matches in other sports. OT making games 4-5 hours would be pretty bad.

The change that FCS made this year seems like a very good, and fair, way to do it (overtime periods end after both teams score):
  • Beginning with the second overtime period, teams must attempt a two-point conversion after scoring a touchdown.
  • Beginning with the third overtime period, teams will begin to run alternating two-point conversion plays instead of offensive possessions.
Could even skip the first "normal" overtime period and force two point conversion attempt if touchdowns are scored and then switch to the shootout if both teams are still tied after the first period.

NFL under the current overtime rules (in place since 2010, regular season games has been since 2012):
11 OT playoff games, winner of the coin toss has 10-1 record, and of those 10, 7 were first drive touchdowns. As a fan I don't know how anyone could defend such an obviously bad system.

Edit: The competition committee has never seriously considered any real changes to the overtime rules despite KC and Baltimore coming up with reasonable changes in the last few years.
25.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 18:35
25.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 18:35
Jan 24, 2022, 18:35
 
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 18:29:
How do you arrest a fugitive cruise ship.
Carefully?
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
24.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 18:29
24.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 18:29
Jan 24, 2022, 18:29
 
How do you arrest a fugitive cruise ship.
- At this point, Windows is the OS equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome. -
Burrito of Peace
Avatar 58135
23.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 18:16
23.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 18:16
Jan 24, 2022, 18:16
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 18:00:
The sudden death rule isn't the worst.
To be clear, it isn't straight up sudden death. If the Bills had held KC to a FG, they would have received a kickoff from KC and the game would have continued...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
22.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 18:00
22.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 18:00
Jan 24, 2022, 18:00
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 17:07:
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:54:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
One might argue that because they are a monopoly that they don't feel obligated to look at such things closely, and/or are influenced to do it a certain way due to special interests.
True. That said, they have been tweaking the OT rules over the past few years. It has been reported in the sports media how the owner's "competition committee" has considered various things. I'm sure there were things considered which didn't make it into the reporting. If you look around some I'm sure you can find plenty of articles about it.
Yeah, I'm sure you are correct that they have probably considered all the options. The sudden death rule isn't the worst. My thought is they selected it in the interest of time. But I do like Cutter's idea of four downs and switch. That could be exciting. Or boring if both teams are bad and no one can score.
I'm a smoldering volcano of virility. At least, that's what I tell myself.
Avatar 22024
21.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 17:07
21.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 17:07
Jan 24, 2022, 17:07
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:54:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
One might argue that because they are a monopoly that they don't feel obligated to look at such things closely, and/or are influenced to do it a certain way due to special interests.
True. That said, they have been tweaking the OT rules over the past few years. It has been reported in the sports media how the owner's "competition committee" has considered various things. I'm sure there were things considered which didn't make it into the reporting. If you look around some I'm sure you can find plenty of articles about it.
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
20.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 16:56
20.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 16:56
Jan 24, 2022, 16:56
 
Marvin T. Martian wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:01:
Too bad the NFL doesn't have a better way of dealing with ties in the playoffs. If the coin dropped the other way, Bills would be playing next. Whoever got the toss would have won, and you could see by the players reactions, both teams new it after the coin toss. It's too bad such a great game, one of the best ever could be decided by cheap coin toss.
But only because both teams had been playing so well in the fourth quarter. Imagine what might have happened in the Bucs/Rams game if it had gone into overtime.
I'm a smoldering volcano of virility. At least, that's what I tell myself.
Avatar 22024
19.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 16:55
19.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 16:55
Jan 24, 2022, 16:55
 
jdreyer wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:54:
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 15:56:
First of all if you think the NFL hasn't considered all the things mentioned and some that haven't, you are fooling yourselves. The NFL is a 15 billion dollar monopoly and you can be sure they look at those things closely.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
One might argue that because they are a monopoly that they don't feel obligated to look at such things closely, and/or are influenced to do it a certain way due to special interests.

It's worth keeping in mind that the most powerful man in the NFL is Jerry Jones.
Of all the Jerrys, he's the absolute worst. Nothing happens without his approval, unfortunately.
18.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 16:54
18.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 16:54
Jan 24, 2022, 16:54
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 15:56:
First of all if you think the NFL hasn't considered all the things mentioned and some that haven't, you are fooling yourselves. The NFL is a 15 billion dollar monopoly and you can be sure they look at those things closely.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
One might argue that because they are a monopoly that they don't feel obligated to look at such things closely, and/or are influenced to do it a certain way due to special interests.
I'm a smoldering volcano of virility. At least, that's what I tell myself.
Avatar 22024
17.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning
Jan 24, 2022, 16:52
17.
Re: OotB: Stunning Jan 24, 2022, 16:52
Jan 24, 2022, 16:52
 
Cutter wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 15:22:
Why not? Endurance is a big part of the sport. At least in hockey and soccer they have shootouts. You could just give them each a turn and 4 downs in total. And go back and forth until someone scores and the other side misses to answer. With teams of that caliber playing it would still be decided pretty quick. I've always agreed that a coin toss and first to score is jive.
A shootout isn't a bad idea. Four downs and switch. Each side gets the same number of turns (like baseball innings), and as soon as there's a scoring mismatch, game ends.
I'm a smoldering volcano of virility. At least, that's what I tell myself.
Avatar 22024
16.
 
Re: OotB: Stunning uTurns but why not reverse gear....
Jan 24, 2022, 16:45
16.
Re: OotB: Stunning uTurns but why not reverse gear.... Jan 24, 2022, 16:45
Jan 24, 2022, 16:45
 
subx wrote on Jan 24, 2022, 16:41:

Batman: I'm still amazed that they've managed to make the mask look as stupid as it does, and doubly amazed that a room full of people must have agreed that it was a good idea.

In the trailer linked? I hardly saw it there, but it looked fine to me. I mean, it's a guy fighting in a giant bat mask, it's going to look stupid, right? Ha.
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