RedEye9 wrote on Jan 14, 2022, 08:08:
270 doctors, physicians, and science educators are against medical misinformation.
One random forum poster thinks otherwise.
What are the odds.

Update:
The open letter urging Spotify to moderate COVID misinformation, spurred by Joe Rogan, has now been signed by more than 1000 science & health experts.

How did we forget the Moon Landing deniers and 9/11 Trufers.
Capricorn One is free/ads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAp6s4M8r5c

Beamer wrote on Jan 14, 2022, 09:56:
The problem is in how easy it is to find people that agree with you on the internet.

In large part, if everyone tells you an idea is dumb, you'll come around to it being dumb. But if you can find a substantial amount of people that say it's smart, you resist.

The internet has made it simple to find that critical mass. Look at Flat Earth. Used to be the rare crank that believed it. But the internet put all those cranks into one forum. That allowed them to resist people telling them they're cranks, and instead think those telling them they're cranks are a conspiracy. How could the thousand people in their forum all come to the same conclusion otherwise?!

Now apply this to other things. Sure, fewer than 0.5% of doctors say vaccines are bad, but when someone tells you 16,000 doctors are anti-vaccine, some people give it credence, even though over a million are pro-vaccine.

And now have Rogan be the one giving credence. Someone with a ton of influence. Someone with millions of listeners. If even 5% of his audience believes what the crank on the show that week is saying, because Joe investigates calmly and almost always ends up agreeing, now we have growing movements. Enough people believe it, talk to each other, and listen to Rogan talking to someone about it, that it seems credible, and anyone saying otherwise is either a sheep or part of the conspiracy

It's no coincidence flat earth and anti-vax, two objectively stupid things to believe, have skyrocketed in the past decade.

Come on Beamer, we live in the age of truthiness. and we all know that truthiness trumps truth.

The problem is in how easy it is to find people that agree with you on the internet.

In large part, if everyone tells you an idea is dumb, you'll come around to it being dumb. But if you can find a substantial amount of people that say it's smart, you resist.

The internet has made it simple to find that critical mass. Look at Flat Earth. Used to be the rare crank that believed it. But the internet put all those cranks into one forum. That allowed them to resist people telling them they're cranks, and instead think those telling them they're cranks are a conspiracy. How could the thousand people in their forum all come to the same conclusion otherwise?!

Now apply this to other things. Sure, fewer than 0.5% of doctors say vaccines are bad, but when someone tells you 16,000 doctors are anti-vaccine, some people give it credence, even though over a million are pro-vaccine.

And now have Rogan be the one giving credence. Someone with a ton of influence. Someone with millions of listeners. If even 5% of his audience believes what the crank on the show that week is saying, because Joe investigates calmly and almost always ends up agreeing, now we have growing movements. Enough people believe it, talk to each other, and listen to Rogan talking to someone about it, that it seems credible, and anyone saying otherwise is either a sheep or part of the conspiracy

It's no coincidence flat earth and anti-vax, two objectively stupid things to believe, have skyrocketed in the past decade.

theglaze wrote on Jan 14, 2022, 00:53:
Personally, no, I don’t think censorship will work. Because the underlying issues remain unaddressed.

There is no censorship going on. In fact I'll bet you've never seen a real act of censorship in the entirety of your life.

The underlying issue is Joe Rogan believes everything he hears if the person saying it sounds even remotely intelligent and so do a lot of other people. So unless you want to brainwash Joe Rogan more than he already is, this is the correct path.

270 doctors, physicians, and science educators are against medical misinformation.
One random forum poster thinks otherwise.
What are the odds.

Good old Faux News and QOP followers, yelling fire in a crowded theater (when there is no fire) is fine by them, because you know fweee speech.

Bhruic wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 19:13:

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 18:43:
Yes, I do tolerate anti-vaxers and conspiracy theorists. Let their wild claims be disproven, as that doctor is doing on Instagram. Allow the scientific method to showcase its resilience to unsound scrutiny. It is through criticism that we develop more sound facts.

Yes, if the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have proven anything, it's that they will change their opinions when presented with facts and scientific data.

And censoring those that oppose your beliefs, kicking them off platforms, and isolating them to talk amongst themselves has clearly alleviated everyone's angst and brought us altogether into one big, happy society. Right? I mean, that was the approach with the outgoing POTUS, so surely it has stopped him from galvanizing a following...oh wait. But QAnon is dead right... ah crap. Or maybe THAT censorship is different than THIS censorship because, ummm, it will work this time! Just got to try as hard as the Roman Empire against Christians because time has shown that... err...

Personally, no, I don’t think censorship will work. Because the underlying issues remain unaddressed. Like cancer that keeps coming back after excision. Blanket censorship policies by social media platforms are like chemotherapy, all cells are subjected to the treatment, not just the bad cells. Clearly some of you are OK with that solutions like that, and are not worried about unintended consequences. I mean what does a good cell have to worry about, right?

Anyways, here's a resource that some of you may find valuable: Center for Humane Technology.

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 18:43:
I am flattered by all the direct replies.

Yes, I do tolerate anti-vaxers and conspiracy theorists. Let their wild claims be disproven, as that doctor is doing on Instagram. Allow the scientific method to showcase its resilience to unsound scrutiny. It is through criticism that we develop more sound facts.

For those of you who are intolerant. Well, I suggest you reflect on that character trait. You may have something in common with those you seek to silence.

Come back to us when it's your family members that died because despite their best efforts they were taken away by the actions of rubes tricked by idiots spouting "we're just asking questions" while selling fake supplements and merch.

~Maximum tolerance~ is either pure psychopathy or a shield to cover someone's own vile beliefs, no real idealist is truly so stupid.

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:11:
These 200 odd doctors are asking Spotify to implement a comprehensive system, where in the platform provider performs censorship duties, so that content creator 'lies' do not propagate. And only Spotify's 'truths' (or whichever powers influence it) are shared.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Smoke some more crack while you're at it. Spotify is a business and bear the onus of acting in a responsible manner. They can hire fact checkers and moderators. And it being a private business there's no such thing as censorship occurring. You can only and ever be censored by a government. And yet again, there's no such thing as "free" speech in society. That's something else you can be criminally and financially liable for. Jesus Christ, grow up and learn to take some fucking responsibility already. All you far right whackos are nothing more than petulant children living in some absurd fantasy world.

Bhruic wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 19:13:
Yes, if the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have proven anything, it's that they will change their opinions when presented with facts and scientific data.

Fucking beautiful.

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 18:43:
Yes, I do tolerate anti-vaxers and conspiracy theorists. Let their wild claims be disproven, as that doctor is doing on Instagram. Allow the scientific method to showcase its resilience to unsound scrutiny. It is through criticism that we develop more sound facts.

Yes, if the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have proven anything, it's that they will change their opinions when presented with facts and scientific data.

I am flattered by all the direct replies.

Yes, I do tolerate anti-vaxers and conspiracy theorists. Let their wild claims be disproven, as that doctor is doing on Instagram. Allow the scientific method to showcase its resilience to unsound scrutiny. It is through criticism that we develop more sound facts.

For those of you who are intolerant. Well, I suggest you reflect on that character trait. You may have something in common with those you seek to silence.

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:11:

Beamer wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 14:05:

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 13:38:

...the open letter to Spotify does not request that Rogan’s show be taken off Spotify, nor does it demand that Spotify remove the Malone episode in particular. Rather, it is calling on Spotify to develop a comprehensive policy prohibiting misinformation

Toe the line, or get cancelled. Thanks, doc.

Uh, you realize the thing you quoted explicitly says it isn't asking for cancellation?
Stop trying to make Joe Rogan, a man that is making 9 figures to spread constant disinformation, a victim.

These 200 odd doctors are asking Spotify to implement a comprehensive system, where in the platform provider performs censorship duties, so that content creator 'lies' do not propagate. And only Spotify's 'truths' (or whichever powers influence it) are shared.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Standards, processes and rules aren't censorship.
Or, do you think Blue is horribly censoring you here with his forum rules? He's not even paying you nine figures to post here!

I have things I cannot say as part of my contract with my company. They'd fire me. If I want to be able to say it, though, I'm free to go elsewhere, as they cannot stop me from saying it, they just do not have to pay me if I do. Pretty normal. I'm not being censored. And, again, they're not even paying me nine figures!

The bitcoin laptop could decrease those times bigly if it had an 80387 math coprocessor.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Yes, like the good intention of "let people say whatever they want to say" leading to the preventable hell of lies and misinformation causing the deaths of millions.

Every dumb forum warrior quote has two sides.

Rigan spreading misinformation about everything. Even himself lol. Cancel the show.

Beamer wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 14:05:

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 13:38:

...the open letter to Spotify does not request that Rogan’s show be taken off Spotify, nor does it demand that Spotify remove the Malone episode in particular. Rather, it is calling on Spotify to develop a comprehensive policy prohibiting misinformation

Toe the line, or get cancelled. Thanks, doc.

Uh, you realize the thing you quoted explicitly says it isn't asking for cancellation?
Stop trying to make Joe Rogan, a man that is making 9 figures to spread constant disinformation, a victim.

FloodAnxiety wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:21:
So whose good intentions are paving the way, his or yours? I think your way sounds like a more direct route. Let's just continue to pretend that "facts" are not facts and continue to have faith that believing in something without evidence is just as good as evidence based belief systems.

Slashman wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:16:
Or maybe the road to saving lives is strewn with the turds of disinformation and crazy anti-vax theories.

Thank Ya’ll

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:11:

Beamer wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 14:05:

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 13:38:

...the open letter to Spotify does not request that Rogan’s show be taken off Spotify, nor does it demand that Spotify remove the Malone episode in particular. Rather, it is calling on Spotify to develop a comprehensive policy prohibiting misinformation

Toe the line, or get cancelled. Thanks, doc.

Uh, you realize the thing you quoted explicitly says it isn't asking for cancellation?
Stop trying to make Joe Rogan, a man that is making 9 figures to spread constant disinformation, a victim.

These 200 odd doctors are asking Spotify to implement a comprehensive system, where in the platform provider performs censorship duties, so that content creator 'lies' do not propagate. And only Spotify's 'truths' (or whichever powers influence it) are shared.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

So whose good intentions are paving the way, his or yours? I think your way sounds like a more direct route. Let's just continue to pretend that "facts" are not facts and continue to have faith that believing in something without evidence is just as good as evidence based belief systems.

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 15:11:

Beamer wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 14:05:

theglaze wrote on Jan 13, 2022, 13:38:

...the open letter to Spotify does not request that Rogan’s show be taken off Spotify, nor does it demand that Spotify remove the Malone episode in particular. Rather, it is calling on Spotify to develop a comprehensive policy prohibiting misinformation

Toe the line, or get cancelled. Thanks, doc.

Uh, you realize the thing you quoted explicitly says it isn't asking for cancellation?
Stop trying to make Joe Rogan, a man that is making 9 figures to spread constant disinformation, a victim.

These 200 odd doctors are asking Spotify to implement a comprehensive system, where in the platform provider performs censorship duties, so that content creator 'lies' do not propagate. And only Spotify's 'truths' (or whichever powers influence it) are shared.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Or maybe the road to saving lives is strewn with the turds of disinformation and crazy anti-vax theories.