Simon Says wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 20:54:
With 4 GBs, PCIe 4x ( imagine having that on PCIe3 or 2 ), it's probably also pretty bad ( relatively speaking ) at gaming so... *Shrugs*

Some estimates put it at around RX480 perf... imagine that. RX480 4 GB was released at 200$ in 2016. Now this one releases almost 6 years later, for the same price and around the same perf, but without some codecs supported by the now almost 6 years old GPU.

I guess the #PolarisForever folks were right. Kinda...

In other news, I just looked at the Steam survey numbers for GPUs. Guess which one was top dog? A GPU released in 2016. With Pascal comprising most of the top five and ten.

Imagine if in 2016 the steam survey had been dominated by cards released in 2010!

#CryptoRot
#LostGenerations

well, Vega forever, but yeah. my 4 y/o vega64 LC hashes comparable to everything but the top of the market. and the top vega, the radeon VII could touch 100 Mh/s cuz of its 16G HBM2 vram. only the 3090 could reliably beat that. not bad for what was considered a garbage card at release. now you'd be lucky to pay under a $1k for a used one today.

The Half Elf wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 19:43:
In defense of Cutter... a few things.

1) Need entire context of the conversation.

2) Shit's changed in the last 3 years alone, people change.

3) I never wanted an iphone as I thought they were for the stuck up Elite that needed the next "elite showcase piece" , and for quite a few years Iphones/Apple products were that, plus being a main PC/Google user things were just fucking easier to get done on a android. So what changed? Everything just works on an Iphone (still rocking my first and only Iphone 8+, and the learning curve was a bitch that my 12 year old nephew had to show me how to do things), and security started becoming a concern of mine.

I agree with #1 and #2. I picked statements that I think stood alone and hey, you can always verify, but even if I'm wrong about 90% of them there's still enough. People change and that can be a good thing - I asked "what changed?" for a reason. I don't see what changed on point #3, is there anything about iPhones that just work better now? I haven't had any problems getting my Androids to work. Is the iPhone's security better now?

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 22:46:

Simon Says wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 20:54:
With 4 GBs, PCIe 4x ( imagine having that on PCIe3 or 2 ), it's probably also pretty bad ( relatively speaking ) at gaming so... *Shrugs*

Kyle Bennett from HardOCP is posting again after years of hiatus.
https://hardocp.com/blog/nvidias-miner-vs-amds-whiner
/snippets

I thought this was worth its own post.
NVIDIA’s new RTX 3050 is an 8GB video card priced at an MSRP of $250.
AMD’s new Radeon 6500XT is a 4GB video card priced at an MSRP of $199.

Both cards are focused on the 1080P resolution gaming market.

Here is the rub though, and what inspired this post’s title. The 3050 and its 8GB of VRAM is capable of mining Ethereum. The 6500XT and its 4GB of VRAM is not capable of mining Ethereum. It has been shown many times that 4GB is sufficient for almost every person wanting to game at 1080P. So why the 8GB on the 3050? Yes, that is right, it is still right in the Ethereum mining sweet spot and an attractive product for miners that are trying to get their grubby little mitts on every mining GPU on the planet. Assuredly, many will complain about the 4GB on the 6500XT, but for the demographic that will consider buying one, 4GB is certainly enough to get you high enough framerates at high enough image quality settings to get you gaming where you want to game.

480 perf 6 years later at the "same price" ( they probably won't be at MSRP for the most part, bbye 200$ ) with less features and a PCIe3 4x problem ( toward which this card is aimed at, budget gamers looking for an upgrade to their older pre-PCIe4 systems ): "sufficient".

First the PCIe problem:

I have a 1060 6GB, around same perf as 480. One day I wanted to fool around with a sound card, had to move the 1060 from a 16x to a PCIe3 8x slot.

A few days later I started a game, an OLD game ( CoD MW2 or 3, campaign mission ), thinking the 8x slot would be fine... But I couldn't fathom why the game was running so much slower than the last time I played it, from a solid silky smooth 60 to a ~40 stuttering mess ( even with Vsync off and freesync on ).

I tried everything to fix it, nothing would do, finally I remembered the PCIe3 8x slot...

Moved the card back to the 16x slot. Changed nothing else. Perf fixed!

If a PCIe3 8x slot ( PCIe4 4x equivalent ) can gimp a 1060 6GB on an old ass game released in 2011 ( or 2009 if it was CoD MW2 ) for the X360/PS3 era, what do you think a PCIe3 4x slot ( PCIe4 2x equivalent ) will do to an equal ( or very slightly faster, VRAM and PCIe gimp notwithstanding ) caliber GPU with today's games? This is not going to be pretty.

A brand new 2022 GPU that chokes on a 2011 ( or 2009 ) game from 2 console generations ago having the "same price" and "perf" ( minus the gimp ) of a 2016 card.

Imagine that... Can you say cash grab?

*****

A while back 2GB/3GB was sufficient for 1080. Isn't anymore, 4GBs are "next on the obsolete list" are undergoing the transition to obsolete as we speak.

Recent professional testing of 4GB cards found them UTTERLY CHOKING at 1080p on some of the latest games ( BF2042 @ 1080p linked as an example ).

Now if a still unreleased card doesn't only have enough VRAM to run some 2021 games ( let alone 2022 and later ) at 4GB, but is also choked by a ridiculously slow bus to pinch pennies. Do you really think this is ANYTHING but a quick cash grab on the desperate during a crisis ( Naomi Klein would probably call this "Disaster capitalism" and for good reason ) who will have to upgrade AGAIN a year or 2 from now?

You still drinking that hot(hardware, pun intended ) crap?

That hunk of junk is, as Steve from Gamers Nexus will probably put it in his upcoming review, "WASTE OF SAND".

It's simply DOA, no amount of Crypto crisis Copium will change any of that.

*****

As for the RTX3050, it's also DOA, for similar, but different reasons, it'll just go bolster the farms.

#StillALostGeneration
#MoreA720pCard
#StillACompleteRipOff

This comment was edited on Jan 9, 2022, 04:39.

I am not defending Cutter, but I caved and bought my first iphone this year. I hate that I love it. My entire family uses the things and I was the last holdout. My work uses 6 apps and 4 of them only exist on iOS currently, so that made the decision kinda obvious. They are pretty damn slick and my first month with my 13 has been not nearly as challenging to learn the interface as I imagined. I have no idea if I will ever buy another Apple product, my opinion about the company on the whole has not really changed. Ten years, 5 years ago, hell..2 years ago....I would not have imagined that I would buy anything Apple. Have I ever been as verbose or strongly opinionated about it in a semi-public forum as Cutter? No, but I am fairly certain you could say that about 90% of the topics ever discussed here.

It's true tho...I would have put money on Cutter being one of the last people here to buy an Apple product with the way he goes after the people that buy the products.

RedEye9 wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 22:46:

Simon Says wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 20:54:
With 4 GBs, PCIe 4x ( imagine having that on PCIe3 or 2 ), it's probably also pretty bad ( relatively speaking ) at gaming so... *Shrugs*

Kyle Bennett from HardOCP is posting again after years of hiatus.
https://hardocp.com/blog/nvidias-miner-vs-amds-whiner
/snippets

I thought this was worth its own post.
NVIDIA’s new RTX 3050 is an 8GB video card priced at an MSRP of $250.
AMD’s new Radeon 6500XT is a 4GB video card priced at an MSRP of $199.

Both cards are focused on the 1080P resolution gaming market.

Here is the rub though, and what inspired this post’s title. The 3050 and its 8GB of VRAM is capable of mining Ethereum. The 6500XT and its 4GB of VRAM is not capable of mining Ethereum. It has been shown many times that 4GB is sufficient for almost every person wanting to game at 1080P. So why the 8GB on the 3050? Yes, that is right, it is still right in the Ethereum mining sweet spot and an attractive product for miners that are trying to get their grubby little mitts on every mining GPU on the planet. Assuredly, many will complain about the 4GB on the 6500XT, but for the demographic that will consider buying one, 4GB is certainly enough to get you high enough framerates at high enough image quality settings to get you gaming where you want to game.

The turnaround for AMD started when it made GPUs that excelled at crypto algorithms. Geforce was whooping Radeon so AMD gave up on the flagship, and made solid entry/midrange cards that were less than half the price of competing Geforce, but offered +80% the hash rate. The RX 480 8GB is a good example, only 250 USD compared to 600 USD for GTX 1080. But when it comes to mining, it's only 15% slower.

People forget or didn't realize that selling to miners was a deliberate focus of AMD. Call them saints today, but there's skeletons in that closet.

Simon Says wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 20:54:
With 4 GBs, PCIe 4x ( imagine having that on PCIe3 or 2 ), it's probably also pretty bad ( relatively speaking ) at gaming so... *Shrugs*

Kyle Bennett from HardOCP is posting again after years of hiatus.
https://hardocp.com/blog/nvidias-miner-vs-amds-whiner
/snippets

I thought this was worth its own post.
NVIDIA’s new RTX 3050 is an 8GB video card priced at an MSRP of $250.
AMD’s new Radeon 6500XT is a 4GB video card priced at an MSRP of $199.

Both cards are focused on the 1080P resolution gaming market.

Here is the rub though, and what inspired this post’s title. The 3050 and its 8GB of VRAM is capable of mining Ethereum. The 6500XT and its 4GB of VRAM is not capable of mining Ethereum. It has been shown many times that 4GB is sufficient for almost every person wanting to game at 1080P. So why the 8GB on the 3050? Yes, that is right, it is still right in the Ethereum mining sweet spot and an attractive product for miners that are trying to get their grubby little mitts on every mining GPU on the planet. Assuredly, many will complain about the 4GB on the 6500XT, but for the demographic that will consider buying one, 4GB is certainly enough to get you high enough framerates at high enough image quality settings to get you gaming where you want to game.

With 4 GBs, PCIe 4x ( imagine having that on PCIe3 or 2 ), it's probably also pretty bad ( relatively speaking ) at gaming so... *Shrugs*

Some estimates put it at around RX480 perf... imagine that. RX480 4 GB was released at 200$ in 2016. Now this one releases almost 6 years later, for the same price and around the same perf, but without some codecs supported by the now almost 6 years old GPU.

I guess the #PolarisForever folks were right. Kinda...

In other news, I just looked at the Steam survey numbers for GPUs. Guess which one was top dog? A GPU released in 2016. With Pascal comprising most of the top five and ten.

Imagine if in 2016 the steam survey had been dominated by cards released in 2010!

#CryptoRot
#LostGenerations

In defense of Cutter... a few things.

1) Need entire context of the conversation.

2) Shit's changed in the last 3 years alone, people change.

3) I never wanted an iphone as I thought they were for the stuck up Elite that needed the next "elite showcase piece" , and for quite a few years Iphones/Apple products were that, plus being a main PC/Google user things were just fucking easier to get done on a android. So what changed? Everything just works on an Iphone (still rocking my first and only Iphone 8+, and the learning curve was a bitch that my 12 year old nephew had to show me how to do things), and security started becoming a concern of mine.

Cutter wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 14:30:
It'll literally take a few IT staff a weekend to implement such a back order feature.

<Laughs wearily in IT>

Quboid wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 16:59:
You never cease to amaze.

<Standing ovation.gif>

Thanks for that excellent reminder of why Cutter has been the only person on my ignore list for years.

Hardline Mike wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 17:13:

Quboid wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 16:59:
You never cease to amaze.

Absolutely blown the fuck out. Nice work.

Even the eastern bloc judges gave it a 10 outta 10.

Quboid wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 16:59:
You never cease to amaze.

Absolutely blown the fuck out. Nice work.

Remember crypto is not doing well. Bitcoin has lost 1/3 of it's value since November. If this trend continues, demand from miners will drastically reduce, and we will start seeing graphics cards in stock with prices less than the MSRP. That's what happened back in 2018.

Cutter wrote on Jan 8, 2022, 14:30:
I ordered my iPhone 13 and macbook pro 14" on day 2 and was pretty late in the queue but I didn't have to wait overnight outside bestbuy or woken up by Twitter stock notifications at 3am. Apple just sent me my stuff within 2-3 weeks when it was ready and came straight from China.

You never cease to amaze.

Cutter wrote on Jun 4, 2019, 20:17:
Everything? No but a good part of it. Only idiots and traitors support Apple.

Cutter wrote on Aug 6, 2018, 13:19:
Well of course Apple and Apple users are dicks. I'm surprised they didn't go with Galileo or Newton instead.

Cutter wrote on Feb 21, 2018, 17:41:
Fuck I hate Apple so much. They're just the shittiest company on the planet. Anyone who supports them is a piece of shit too.

Cutter wrote on Dec 29, 2017, 10:23:
No, the most annoying thing is that assholes continue to support Apple no matter what.

Cutter wrote on Dec 3, 2017, 17:26:
Way to go mes amis! Stick it those fuckers! Only evil pigfuckers support Apple!

Cutter wrote on Nov 14, 2017, 12:28:
Apple supporters are such assholes. What a fucking vain clown he is. Why not just buy a rugged phone for a tenth of the price and not have to worry about a goddamned phone to begin with? The stupidity and vanity of people never ceases to amaze me.

Cutter wrote on Mar 21, 2017, 10:43:
Stop supporting Apple! Only assholes support them.

Cutter wrote on Dec 19, 2016, 13:10:
Good! Fuck Apple and anyone who supports them!

Cutter wrote on May 12, 2015, 12:42:

This is an iPhone (I've already taken abuse for this, so lay off)

No. Never. Stop buying Apple products and supporting those motherfuckers! Yes, other companies are evil but they are the kings of that mountain of shit.

Cutter wrote on May 8, 2015, 12:51:
Apple owners are dicks so that's no surprise. It's like Mercedes is the official car of selfish assholes everywhere. It's just a fact like death and taxes. The writer claims he doesn't like penises but I'll wager he loves them. LOVES them!

Cutter wrote on Jul 8, 2014, 13:09:
Only assholes support Apple.

Cutter wrote on May 18, 2014, 15:11:
Easiest solution: Stop supporting Apple.

Cutter wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 14:11:

Orogogus wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:52:

Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:35:

Cutter wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:27:
I've never said other companies weren't evil. Simply that Apple is the evilest of them all. And yes, if you support Apple you do hate America and babies, and likely love the terrorists too.

I don't think you've really ever given a reason why Apple is more evil than Google or Walmart or Koch Industries or MLM pyramid schemes.

After being called out on it fourteen or fifteen times, he's probably not going to start now either, except maybe to trot out the late Steve Jobs' stance against charitable donations again. Just move on.

Hey jackass! I've listed them all before. I have neither the time nor desire to reiterate them every time. If you're too LAZY to do your own research on why they're so bad then it just shows the kind of person you really are - along with your fellow Apple supporters. People like you and your pals are precisely why this world is so shitty.

Cutter wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 14:11:

Orogogus wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:52:

Beamer wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:35:

Cutter wrote on Apr 22, 2014, 13:27:
I've never said other companies weren't evil. Simply that Apple is the evilest of them all. And yes, if you support Apple you do hate America and babies, and likely love the terrorists too.

I don't think you've really ever given a reason why Apple is more evil than Google or Walmart or Koch Industries or MLM pyramid schemes.

After being called out on it fourteen or fifteen times, he's probably not going to start now either, except maybe to trot out the late Steve Jobs' stance against charitable donations again. Just move on.

Hey jackass! I've listed them all before. I have neither the time nor desire to reiterate them every time. If you're too LAZY to do your own research on why they're so bad then it just shows the kind of person you really are - along with your fellow Apple supporters. People like you and your pals are precisely why this world is so shitty.

Cutter wrote on Apr 21, 2014, 22:02:
Well I'd have to use an Apple product first wouldn't I? And Hell has a better chance of freezing over than that ever happening.

Cutter wrote on Dec 9, 2013, 14:19:
#1. Your iphone helps those who hate America. Like Apple.

Cutter wrote on Dec 2, 2013, 18:54:
Really? I thought Apple snagged most of its buyers from freedom hating terrorist lovers.

Cutter wrote on Oct 26, 2013, 15:09:
Unethical users? Lol Apple and it's users are all unethical!

Cutter wrote on Apr 18, 2013, 07:01:
You meant to say Apple is pro-censorship. Yet, another in the never ending list of reasons to boycott them.

Cutter wrote on Dec 6, 2012, 23:56:
Eveyrone should be sticking it to Apple whenever possible!

Cutter wrote on Oct 24, 2012, 11:15:
Apple is evil and so are they who support them!

Cutter wrote on Sep 14, 2012, 16:47:
Boo Blue boo! Apple is evil, don't support them!

Cutter wrote on Sep 4, 2012, 13:58:
Well that's too bad. Lesson here? Stop supporting Apple.

Cutter wrote on Sep 3, 2012, 15:16:
Go for it Bruce! Better still stop fucking supporting Apple!

Cutter wrote on Jul 30, 2012, 11:54:
Boggles the mind that people support Apple.

Cutter wrote on May 10, 2012, 21:43:
Yeah, forget promoting Apple. They're evil.

Cutter wrote on Apr 6, 2012, 13:17:
Agree. Apple is a company that shouldn't be supported in any way, shape, or form untill they change.

Highlights, notations, and censoring by me:

Cutter wrote on Feb 24, 2012, 15:19:
I own nothing from any of those companies [including Apple] with the exception of Windows - which was made here. [...] So no, I'm not a hypocrite, nor am I fucking s*****g like you. S*** my b***s, you POS!

Cutter wrote on Feb 2, 2012, 22:45:
Not caring and being forced into taking a bad job out of desperation are very different things. Once again, do not support Apple!

Cutter wrote on Jan 26, 2012, 16:26:
If you hate America, humanity, and the environment, support Apple.

Cutter wrote on Jan 17, 2012, 23:07:
I like how if you ask Siri about where it was made or by who or Apple child labor violation it tells you it's classified. Yeah, keep on supporting Apple!

Cutter wrote on Jan 13, 2012, 23:25:
Course if Apple made their stuff at home they wouldn't have the problems. They don't support us, don't support them.

Cutter wrote on Dec 13, 2011, 12:31:
Good to see Apple's true colours. The enviornment hating, conspicuous consumption, shallow asshole cult that it and its adherants are.

Cutter wrote on Sep 26, 2011, 12:07:
And this is why you shouldn't support Apple.

Cutter wrote on Aug 6, 2011, 16:20:
I hate Apple and will never use their overrated overpriced crap. And no, real gamers don't want to play crappy F2P/microware on 6 inch screens.

Cutter wrote on Nov 16, 2009, 16:52:
Just one more reason why I don't buy Apple's crap.

There's a lot more, and that's after excluding the ones about Apple fanboys (because buying their products doesn't have to mean fanboy).

What changed?

The 6500 XT seem like a pretty bad card in general. You'll find more features on an RX 480 which is over five years old and even when compared to the previously cheaper 5500 XT it's still quite handicapped on paper. They must be banking on the infinity cache and clocking the card to the max to make it worth $200 $500. Pretty sure it only uses 4x lanes too so it's not like there's much headroom anyway especially if you jam it in to a PCIE 3 board.

Also hate how Nvidia is making new GA102 SKUs instead of just pumping out as many as they can for what they have now.

It's a damn circus.

This comment was edited on Jan 8, 2022, 16:21.

40% price increase for 3080 12GB, and it gets 3% more cores and 2GB more memory than vanilla 3080... basically confirms the RTX 40 series will debut at +$1000 USD

QFT....

What I dont get is why NVIDIA and AMD can't have an Apple like back order feature.

Let me pay now and and then ship my gpu it to me whenever you can manage to manufacture it. I ordered my iPhone 13 and macbook pro 14" on day 2 and was pretty late in the queue but I didn't have to wait overnight outside bestbuy or woken up by Twitter stock notifications at 3am. Apple just sent me my stuff within 2-3 weeks when it was ready and came straight from China. Guess there's a reason why apple get to be a 3T dollae company that all these copycat companies can only dream to become one day.

Why is Apples way so hard to copy? It'll literally take a few IT staff a weekend to implement such a back order feature.

If you wanna be extra diligent, tie in each customer account to a single residential address and a single verified payment name/method so multiple orders are hard to make.Yet Nvidia and amd and Amazon havw left their customers at the mercy of Scalpers and bots where all the supply is gone within 18 second time frame.

Amazon is also the worst offender. Still wide open to scalper bots because of their smile.amazon.com that ever bot dev is openly exploiting....


I agree that this is what Nvidia and AMD should do. The reason they aren't doing it is that they probably don't have a direct-to-customer retail shipping infrastructure like Apple does. Packing shipping containers for trucks or ships is different than sending out millions of individual orders.

They should build this infrastructure. Not only would this make the customers happy, it would also mean that Nvidia and AMD could pocket the full purchase price, rather than enriching scalpers with no benefit to the manufacturers.