Apple vs Epic Stay Granted

A stay from the Northern District Court nullifies, for the moment, the one victory scored by Epic Games in its antitrust lawsuit against Apple (thanks The Verge). Last year it was ruled a temporary restraining order would be made permanent, forcing Apple to allow apps to collect money outside of its in-app system. Now this ruling is be suspended pending appeal (and further legal bills), meaning apps must still use Apple's IAP system for now:
Apple has demonstrated, at minimum, that its appeal raises serious questions on the merits of the district court’s determination that Epic Games, Inc. failed to show Apple’s conduct violated any antitrust laws but did show that the same conduct violated California’s Unfair Competition Law. See City of San Jose v. Off. of the Com’r of Baseball, 776 F.3d 686, 691–92 (9th Cir. 2015) (“[U]nder California law ‘[i]f the same conduct is alleged to be both an antitrust violation and an “unfair” business act or practice for the same reason—because it unreasonably restrains competition and harms consumers—the determination that the conduct is not an unreasonable restraint of trade necessarily implies that the conduct is not “unfair” toward consumers.’” (quoting Chavez v. Whirlpool Corp., 113 Cal. Rptr. 2d 175, 184 (Cal. Ct. App. 2001))). Apple has also made a sufficient showing of irreparable harm, see Disney Enters., Inc. v. VidAngel, Inc., 869 F.3d 848, 865–66 (9th Cir. 2017), and that the remaining factors weigh in favor of staying part (i) of the injunction and maintaining the status quo pending appeal, see Nken v. Holder, 556 U.S. 418, 434–35 (2009).

Therefore, we grant Apple’s motion to stay part (i) of paragraph (1) of the permanent injunction. The stay will remain in effect until the mandate issues in this appeal. The existing briefing schedule remains in place.
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9.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 14:12
9.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 14:12
Dec 9, 2021, 14:12
 
Darks wrote on Dec 9, 2021, 10:40:
So, in your mind, Apple is supposed to allow devs to host money grabbing platforms and apps for free?

Except this isn't what's happening. Apple is charging the 30% to purchase the app, but then they take another 30% cut of every purchase made within the app as well. At that point, the app is already on your phone. Apple isn't hosting anything. It's pure profit for them. Let them keep their percentage for the original purchase. Once I have the app, there's no reason I should have to keep paying Apple.
8.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 11:37
8.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 11:37
Dec 9, 2021, 11:37
 
PHJF wrote on Dec 9, 2021, 10:39:
You act like Walmart is the villain... they cut costs so they could cut prices so they could get customers. The reason Walmart is frequented heavily by low-income customers is because low-income customers can't afford to shop at Whole Foods or Dick's Sporting Goods. In fact one of the markets with the largest recent retail growth is in discount stores for low-income customers..

As for manufacturing... I saw an old guy in a store the other day ask somebody why the store didn't carry scissors made in America instead of China. I wanted to tell him he wasn't going to pay $30 for a pair of scissors, that's why, but just shook my head and ignored him.


"Made in the USA" was a major selling and marketing point for Walmart. Poor guy probably just remembers that
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7.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 10:40
7.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 10:40
Dec 9, 2021, 10:40
 
Jonjonz wrote on Dec 9, 2021, 06:27:
This is utter BS.

The crux of the matter, the 30% cut of any and all digital purchases made with an app belong to Crapple.

No one would complain if that did not exist.

Wow, there is no way I can take any comment like this seriously. So, in your mind, Apple is supposed to allow devs to host money grabbing platforms and apps for free? is that how economics work in your little mind? Apple is not the bad guy here, just like Steam and another platform that's allowing developers to host their apps on their platforms. Epic is looking for a free ride and that is all this comes down too. Get a life and get over your ignorance!
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6.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 10:39
PHJF
 
6.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 10:39
Dec 9, 2021, 10:39
 PHJF
 
You act like Walmart is the villain... they cut costs so they could cut prices so they could get customers. The reason Walmart is frequented heavily by low-income customers is because low-income customers can't afford to shop at Whole Foods or Dick's Sporting Goods. In fact one of the markets with the largest recent retail growth is in discount stores for low-income customers..

As for manufacturing... I saw an old guy in a store the other day ask somebody why the store didn't carry scissors made in America instead of China. I wanted to tell him he wasn't going to pay $30 for a pair of scissors, that's why, but just shook my head and ignored him.
Steam + PSN: PHJF
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5.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 10:23
5.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 10:23
Dec 9, 2021, 10:23
 
How exactly does Apple control users and controls the app market exactly?

My major factor for purchasing my 1 and only Iphone was due to security, privacy, everything just works on an iphone, and a much stricter control of it's app store.

Apple has made a good product that doesn't suffer from all the splintering of android devices/operating systems and has a pretty fair requirements to post apps to it's store.
So when does having a good highly sought after product result in a monopoly? Google Chrome and Google Search are the prominent in web browsers/search engines. Are they a monopoly because they are popular? (and I am specifically NOT talking about Google Advertising because there has been enough stories about Google being a monopoly on that).
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4.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 09:51
4.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 09:51
Dec 9, 2021, 09:51
 
The Half Elf wrote on Dec 9, 2021, 07:39:
Actually it's not 30% until they make X amount of money (If I'm wrong please let me know). But what exactly does a developer do besides give the program to Apple to host on the store? Do they provide money towards to data useage or hosting fee's?

So let me put up an analogy and you all tell me if it's accurate or not.

Ferrari makes Ferrari cars. Someone wants to own/drive a Ferrari, but says Ferrari's are too expensive. Ferrari says "hey if you want to drive our cars, this is the cost of driving them, if ya don't like it you can go buy/drive another car". Person says "No I want a Ferrari because it's a Ferrari, and having a Ferrari makes people pay attention to me more then driving a Ford Focus, but I'm not going to pay the price for a Ferrari and I'm going to sue you claiming you have a monopoly on Ferrari's!"

This isn't really a very good analogy. In large part because "pay attention to me" isn't the same as "make enough money to stay in business."

In the US, Apple controls about 50% of users, but also controls the more valuable users, as it controls nearly 70% of the app market. And it isn't a product they're selling, like a car, but access to those users. And this is a decision users don't factor in to their purchase.

Back in the 90s, Walmart put many companies out of business (or, more accurately, turned them from US-owned-and-operated business to Chinese ones) by forcing companies to cut costs in order to sell at Walmart. Walmart was so large that there was no way for the companies to stay in business without Walmart, but the demands led to slow deaths instead of over night ones. That's more akin to what is going on here than a consumer buying a car. Walmart should have been raked over the coals for what it did to so many American manufacturers.
3.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 07:39
3.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 07:39
Dec 9, 2021, 07:39
 
Actually it's not 30% until they make X amount of money (If I'm wrong please let me know). But what exactly does a developer do besides give the program to Apple to host on the store? Do they provide money towards to data useage or hosting fee's?

So let me put up an analogy and you all tell me if it's accurate or not.

Ferrari makes Ferrari cars. Someone wants to own/drive a Ferrari, but says Ferrari's are too expensive. Ferrari says "hey if you want to drive our cars, this is the cost of driving them, if ya don't like it you can go buy/drive another car". Person says "No I want a Ferrari because it's a Ferrari, and having a Ferrari makes people pay attention to me more then driving a Ford Focus, but I'm not going to pay the price for a Ferrari and I'm going to sue you claiming you have a monopoly on Ferrari's!"

This comment was edited on Dec 9, 2021, 09:01.
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2.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 9, 2021, 06:27
2.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 9, 2021, 06:27
Dec 9, 2021, 06:27
 
This is utter BS.

The crux of the matter, the 30% cut of any and all digital purchases made with an app belong to Crapple.

No one would complain if that did not exist.
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1.
 
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted
Dec 8, 2021, 20:08
Kxmode
 
1.
Re: Apple vs Epic Stay Granted Dec 8, 2021, 20:08
Dec 8, 2021, 20:08
 Kxmode
 
I'm no fan of Epic, but I was hoping this ruling would stick for the benefit of other app developers. That said, I see why they removed it. Sooner or later, some unscrupulous developers would create or use an alternate payment processor that would not only harm the consumer but ruin the app store's reputation of providing a high degree of safety, hence the cited "irreparable harm" cases. Even if the alternative payment processor never did anything nefarious, if there are issues or problems, the user will blame Apple, not the alternative payment processor. It is a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand, you want developers to earn more from their products, but not at the expense of consumer safety and Apple's stringent protocols for new apps and updates.
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