Prez wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 21:55:
As usual, context is completely lost in this discussion. There was no artist vision that was compromised because of some overly sensitive religious folk. Had the scene been intended to invoke a specific feeling because of that particular imagery that would be a discussion worth having. It's not. It was an otherwise small detail that was mistakenly done out of ignorance of a culture. In one case, a discussion should at least be had. In reality, it was a simple oversight that was not worth digging one's heels in over. Context fucking matters people. Not every single thing is a hill worth dying on.

I'll go back to having my headache silently now.

A much more eloquent way of saying what I meant with intentional vs unintentional.

And no, I'm not "applauding" this, I'm telling the morons angry that someone did something kind that they're morons for being angry at someone doing something kind of someone else.

And hysterically yes, the Mass Effect 3 ending was changed due to whining. Whining we saw here constantly. Have we seen a single complaint about this issue prior to it being in this thread?

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Nov 13, 2021, 08:44. Reason: Intolerance (rule 2)

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 18:48:
Isn't saying it's the right or polite thing to do, applauding it? Either give me a course in English or semantics here.

Depends on the tone. Usually "applauding" something involves some kind of explicit pat on the back or an acknowledgement that someone has gone out of their way to do the right thing. Or it can mean literal applause. If some guy spilled his drink on your shirt on accident and then apologized, I wouldn't be like "Good man!". But at the same time if someone said he shouldn't apologize, I'd probably point out that apologizing was the right thing to do. It doesn't mean I'm saying the guy is brave and heroic for apologizing or even that he was sincere. He just did what was expected by decent people in society. Worthy of neither applause nor derision.

What it boils down to for me is that this was a minor cultural whoopsie which was quickly apologized for and corrected. Like Prez said, it's not like it's someones artistic freedom being butchered, or the game being pulled from the shelves. People have been apologizing for these kinds of things for millennia and we're still all here living in a society.

Prez wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 21:55:
As usual, context is completely lost in this discussion. There was no artist vision that was compromised because of some overly sensitive religious folk. Had the scene been intended to invoke a specific feeling because of that particular imagery that would be a discussion worth having. It's not. It was an otherwise small detail that was mistakenly done out of ignorance of a culture. In one case, a discussion should at least be had. In reality, it was a simple oversight that was not worth digging one's heels in over. Context fucking matters people. Not every single thing is a hill worth dying on.

I'll go back to having my headache silently now.

Annnd /thread
You nailed it on what occurred.

Sorry about your headache, they suck.

As usual, context is completely lost in this discussion. There was no artist vision that was compromised because of some overly sensitive religious folk. Had the scene been intended to invoke a specific feeling because of that particular imagery that would be a discussion worth having. It's not. It was an otherwise small detail that was mistakenly done out of ignorance of a culture. In one case, a discussion should at least be had. In reality, it was a simple oversight that was not worth digging one's heels in over. Context fucking matters people. Not every single thing is a hill worth dying on.

I'll go back to having my headache silently now.

Quboid wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 19:20:

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 19:07:
Let it sink in that the entire gaming community was offended by the Mass Effect 3 ending. Not a peep from Bioware. In fact, they rightfully defended their ending calling it creative freedom or whatever. But when a level designer puts a Quran on the floor of the house of Heidi from Austria because she's a book collector ignorant of Islamic beliefs, that just can't go. "But... Heidi...?" No. Fuck you and your Heidi.

🤯

Didn't they remake the ending?

Anyway people said it sucked, that's a completely different thing to be offended.

Yeah, it's not a 1:1 comparison. Good of you to notice, feller.

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 19:07:
Let it sink in that the entire gaming community was offended by the Mass Effect 3 ending. Not a peep from Bioware. In fact, they rightfully defended their ending calling it creative freedom or whatever. But when a level designer puts a Quran on the floor of the house of Heidi from Austria because she's a book collector ignorant of Islamic beliefs, that just can't go. "But... Heidi...?" No. Fuck you and your Heidi.

🤯

Didn't they remake the ending?

Anyway people said it sucked, that's a completely different thing to being allegedly disrespectful.

Let it sink in that the entire gaming community was offended by the Mass Effect 3 ending. Not a peep from Bioware. In fact, they rightfully defended their ending calling it creative freedom or whatever. But when a level designer puts a Quran on the floor of the house of Heidi from Austria because she's a book collector ignorant of Islamic beliefs, that just can't go. "But... Heidi...?" No. Fuck you and your Heidi.

🤯

NKD wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 16:48:

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 16:08:
Point being, as you again show yourself, is that the reason is either capitalism or fear but nothing worth applauding. So why applaud it. To think a company does this purely out of respect is naive. And people who act like they applaud this do this because it settles them more comfortably in their political identity. Nobody here on bluesnews is so naive that it's cute.

Except no one is "applauding" it. Shit, the only posts made in defense of this were in response to people flipping out about it. And all they said was essentially "It's the polite thing to do." A good portion of the first 20 posts are people lamenting the downfall of society (see Mr. Marine who doesn't care what anyone thinks and he does what he wants because 'murica. ) because some game devs picked a fucking book up off the floor when asked.

Seriously. Think about that for a second. Some game devs picked a book up off the floor, that quite possibly wasn't supposed to be there to begin with, and it took like 3 posts until we had someone lamenting the state of society because of it.

Isn't saying it's the right or polite thing to do, applauding it? Either give me a course in English or semantics here.

There are 3 possibilities here:
1.) They apologized because they deeply regret offending a person or group;
2.) They apologized because they are afraid of violence a la Charlie Hebdo;
3.) They apologized because they don't want to alianate an entire group of religious people for economic reasons.

We obviously (based on your comments) agree that it isn't the first reason.

The second reason is understandable, but not to be respected but lamented.

The third reason might look to be "polite", but in fact tells more about how they see said group of people: one that is intolerable of whatever they deem offensive, be it mockery or chance.

So it isn't the first, and the second and third reasons aren't something to applaud (please explain to me how "it's good to apologize when you offend someone" doesn't translate into applauding the decision to apologize).

All I can do is lament. This insincere apology is a step back, not forward. "Mr. Marine" aka Darks isnt saying he doesn't give a fuck about anyone. He's saying that we should all want to live in a world where to accidentally offend someone, is OK.

Edit: I notice the office utility and cellar dwellar are having their crosshairs on me again, naturally. Let it be known that I don't even fault "the Muslims" for this apology. It has probably only been a handful of them. I completely fault Activision for the being the spineless fucks that they are. I bet both my testicles that the majority of Muslim gamers (who are completely fine with the concept of crime and murder in media, proven by them being gamers) are OK with the Quran on the floor. To assume otherwise is to be an Islamophobic ignoramous.

This comment was edited on Nov 12, 2021, 18:59.

@NKD
I know that you know that you’re wasting your time.

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 16:08:
Point being, as you again show yourself, is that the reason is either capitalism or fear but nothing worth applauding. So why applaud it. To think a company does this purely out of respect is naive. And people who act like they applaud this do this because it settles them more comfortably in their political identity. Nobody here on bluesnews is so naive that it's cute.

Except no one is "applauding" it. Shit, the only posts made in defense of this were in response to people flipping out about it. And all they said was essentially "It's the polite thing to do." A good portion of the first 20 posts are people lamenting the downfall of society (see Mr. Marine who doesn't care what anyone thinks and he does what he wants because 'murica. ) because some game devs picked a fucking book up off the floor when asked.

Seriously. Think about that for a second. Some game devs picked a book up off the floor, that quite possibly wasn't supposed to be there to begin with, and it took like 3 posts until we had someone lamenting the state of society because of it.

NKD wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 13:32:

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 09:59:

Beamer wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:49:

Dumbledore wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:12:
in a game where you run around slaughtering muslims, we sure wouldn't want to have anything offensive about their sky fairy.

pathetic. they SHOULD have released a statement saying "it's make believe. grow up"

Yes, you're intentionally slaughtering people that happen to be Muslim who are enemy combatants trying to slaughter you.

Yet, with the Quran on the floor, they unintentionally insult the majority of Muslims, nearly all of whom are not fictional enemy combatants trying to kill you.

This isn't hard. They accidentally did something that others reasonably find offensive. They did not mean to offend, so they made things right.

That's what normal human beings do. When they cause unintended harm and the fix is clearly well beneath the harm done, they make things right.

When I accidentally bump into someone at the bar I apologize. No one ever seems to get angry at me for apologizing and trying to make things right. Weird how angry people here are at an apology for something unintended

Firstly, NKD: You were saying?

Beamer absolutely does not take the tone you were referring to in that post. He simply acknowledges that they accidentally offended some people, and they fixed it, and that it isn't a big deal. Which is absolutely true. There was no cheerleading.

Secondly, the concept of apologizing for something someone else takes offense to is reasonable and we all do it. The question is if we should always apologize for anything someone takes offense to. Where do we draw the line? In an era where we all feel perfectly comfortable to make fun of one religion, some of us are hypocritically fast to kneel to the whims of another.

Is it really hypocritical when the backlash between making fun of those two religions is different? A business shouldn't be volunteering their employees as martyrs just to die on the hill of free speech, but pissing off some idiot talking head on Fox News is probably safe (for now.)

The other thing is that we don't get news articles posted on Blue's every time a company _doesn't_ remove something that they received complaints about. The degree to which they get complaints, the time and money it would take to correct the issue, etc., these all figure in to the decision. They probably receive all kinds of whining and complaints from people all the time, some of it reasonable, some of it not. Some of it cost effective to address, some of it not.

You're really just complaining about capitalism, because $$$ are ultimately what drives these decisions, not warm fuzzy feelings and a desire not to offend anyone.

You're changing lanes as you go, mate. I have issues with both reasons, both capitalism and fear (though I would understand the latter, so not to risk another Charlie Hebdo incident). Neither should be applauded as "the decent thing to do".

Point being, as you again show yourself, is that the reason is either capitalism or fear but nothing worth applauding. So why applaud it. To think a company does this purely out of respect is naive. And people who act like they applaud this do this because it settles them more comfortably in their political identity. Nobody here on bluesnews is so naive that it's cute.

Quinn wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 09:59:

Beamer wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:49:

Dumbledore wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:12:
in a game where you run around slaughtering muslims, we sure wouldn't want to have anything offensive about their sky fairy.

pathetic. they SHOULD have released a statement saying "it's make believe. grow up"

Yes, you're intentionally slaughtering people that happen to be Muslim who are enemy combatants trying to slaughter you.

Yet, with the Quran on the floor, they unintentionally insult the majority of Muslims, nearly all of whom are not fictional enemy combatants trying to kill you.

This isn't hard. They accidentally did something that others reasonably find offensive. They did not mean to offend, so they made things right.

That's what normal human beings do. When they cause unintended harm and the fix is clearly well beneath the harm done, they make things right.

When I accidentally bump into someone at the bar I apologize. No one ever seems to get angry at me for apologizing and trying to make things right. Weird how angry people here are at an apology for something unintended

Firstly, NKD: You were saying?

Beamer absolutely does not take the tone you were referring to in that post. He simply acknowledges that they accidentally offended some people, and they fixed it, and that it isn't a big deal. Which is absolutely true. There was no cheerleading.

Secondly, the concept of apologizing for something someone else takes offense to is reasonable and we all do it. The question is if we should always apologize for anything someone takes offense to. Where do we draw the line? In an era where we all feel perfectly comfortable to make fun of one religion, some of us are hypocritically fast to kneel to the whims of another.

Is it really hypocritical when the backlash between making fun of those two religions is different? A business shouldn't be volunteering their employees as martyrs just to die on the hill of free speech, but pissing off some idiot talking head on Fox News is probably safe (for now.)

The other thing is that we don't get news articles posted on Blue's every time a company _doesn't_ remove something that they received complaints about. The degree to which they get complaints, the time and money it would take to correct the issue, etc., these all figure in to the decision. They probably receive all kinds of whining and complaints from people all the time, some of it reasonable, some of it not. Some of it cost effective to address, some of it not.

You're really just complaining about capitalism, because $$$ are ultimately what drives these decisions, not warm fuzzy feelings and a desire not to offend anyone.

No one has screeched the favorite verbage of the fox bobblehead yet claiming it's a "slippery slope."
Miracles never cease to amaze.

and buckrussell is BACK
joy

Beamer wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:49:

Dumbledore wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:12:
in a game where you run around slaughtering muslims, we sure wouldn't want to have anything offensive about their sky fairy.

pathetic. they SHOULD have released a statement saying "it's make believe. grow up"

Yes, you're intentionally slaughtering people that happen to be Muslim who are enemy combatants trying to slaughter you.

Yet, with the Quran on the floor, they unintentionally insult the majority of Muslims, nearly all of whom are not fictional enemy combatants trying to kill you.

This isn't hard. They accidentally did something that others reasonably find offensive. They did not mean to offend, so they made things right.

That's what normal human beings do. When they cause unintended harm and the fix is clearly well beneath the harm done, they make things right.

When I accidentally bump into someone at the bar I apologize. No one ever seems to get angry at me for apologizing and trying to make things right. Weird how angry people here are at an apology for something unintended

Firstly, NKD: You were saying?

Secondly, the concept of apologizing for something someone else takes offense to is reasonable and we all do it. The question is if we should always apologize for anything someone takes offense to. Where do we draw the line? In an era where we all feel perfectly comfortable to make fun of one religion, some of us are hypocritically fast to kneel to the whims of another.

Dumbledore wrote on Nov 12, 2021, 08:12:
in a game where you run around slaughtering muslims, we sure wouldn't want to have anything offensive about their sky fairy.

pathetic. they SHOULD have released a statement saying "it's make believe. grow up"

Yes, you're intentionally slaughtering people that happen to be Muslim who are enemy combatants trying to slaughter you.

Yet, with the Quran on the floor, they unintentionally insult the majority of Muslims, nearly all of whom are not fictional enemy combatants trying to kill you.

This isn't hard. They accidentally did something that others reasonably find offensive. They did not mean to offend, so they made things right.

That's what normal human beings do. When they cause unintended harm and the fix is clearly well beneath the harm done, they make things right.

When I accidentally bump into someone at the bar I apologize. No one ever seems to get angry at me for apologizing and trying to make things right. Weird how angry people here are at an apology for something unintended

in a game where you run around slaughtering muslims, we sure wouldn't want to have anything offensive about their sky fairy.

pathetic. they SHOULD have released a statement saying "it's make believe. grow up"

Well goo that they made that step. Last I heard killing people is disrespectful as well, might want to look into that next.

This whole thread makes my head hurt.

Seems reasonable.