theglaze wrote on Nov 5, 2021, 01:35:
I totally agree, I certainly won't be an early adopter of Z690+DDR5 and I don't encourage anyone to do so, unless they have money to burn. Hoping to get my hands on Zen4 next year. Already got the piggy bank half full to pay off the scalpers.

This whole situation reminds me of when DDR4 first came around. I recall the first dual channel kits came out, they were still only running at 1666mhz but that was the starting line. And they were extremely expensive! I had 20gb of DDR3/1333 in my first-gen Core i5-750 and that was less than $150 total! The same in DDR4 at that time? Heh. Right.

But it didn't take long to become standard and the timings and speed took off. Before you knew it we were at 2666 and then 3200, then 3600 (where my 32gb is at now) and beyond. If G.Skill can get their TridentZ 5's to launch at 7000(!), then I don't think they will have any issues, speed-wise in the future. I am kind of concerned about the timings though. I haven't seen timings like this since the 90's! (40-40-40-76 for 5200?! YIKES!)...as for product availability, you're going to see a very familiar sight at places like NewEgg, especially if you've been in the market for a good vid card at any time in the last year or two...

=-Rigs-=

FloorPie wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 21:19:

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 15:49:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:52:

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:03:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

Their Alder Lake review shows a difference of 5% or less average FPS on every game but Far Cry 5, where it's nearer to 10%... and that's at 1080p. Have you seen the prices on DDR5?

First generation modules, early mobo BIOS versions, mem settings probably not yet optimized by testers, and DDR5 is consistently beating DDR4 beyond the margin of error. That's better than DDR4's debut, and DDR5 will only get better moving forward.

As for price... we're talking about the launch of the fastest hardware on the market, so I give that a pass, for now!

There is no doubt DDR5 will get better but you're buying high priced now and in 1-2 years can maybe upgrade to faster/stable speeds for less money. And then sell your older, slower ram? Yet, in 1-2 years you will be at gen2 of these new Perf/Efficiency core designs from Intel and Zen4 stuff from AMD. Not to mention out of the bug phase of Windows 11. Maybe if ram prices settle down in 3-6 months, ddr5 will be more enticing but I doubt it. The current rumors are AMD's 3D tech is coming out early next year with a 15% perf boost in gaming.

This is what happens every new ram tech generation. If you're on Intel 8th gen/Ryzen 2000 cpus or newer, I'd say hold out. If you need a new system now, look for the deals on the previous gen parts. The only decent deal I see here is the i5 12600k and probably only with quality DDR4. Even better will be the non K i5, aka the i5-12400 which I bet will be priced at low $200s.

I totally agree, I certainly won't be an early adopter of Z690+DDR5 and I don't encourage anyone to do so, unless they have money to burn. Hoping to get my hands on Zen4 next year. Already got the piggy bank half full to pay off the scalpers.

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 15:49:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:52:

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:03:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

Their Alder Lake review shows a difference of 5% or less average FPS on every game but Far Cry 5, where it's nearer to 10%... and that's at 1080p. Have you seen the prices on DDR5?

First generation modules, early mobo BIOS versions, mem settings probably not yet optimized by testers, and DDR5 is consistently beating DDR4 beyond the margin of error. That's better than DDR4's debut, and DDR5 will only get better moving forward.

As for price... we're talking about the launch of the fastest hardware on the market, so I give that a pass, for now!

There is no doubt DDR5 will get better but you're buying high priced now and in 1-2 years can maybe upgrade to faster/stable speeds for less money. And then sell your older, slower ram? Yet, in 1-2 years you will be at gen2 of these new Perf/Efficiency core designs from Intel and Zen4 stuff from AMD. Not to mention out of the bug phase of Windows 11. Maybe if ram prices settle down in 3-6 months, ddr5 will be more enticing but I doubt it. The current rumors are AMD's 3D tech is coming out early next year with a 15% perf boost in gaming.

This is what happens every new ram tech generation. If you're on Intel 8th gen/Ryzen 2000 cpus or newer, I'd say hold out. If you need a new system now, look for the deals on the previous gen parts. The only decent deal I see here is the i5 12600k and probably only with quality DDR4. Even better will be the non K i5, aka the i5-12400 which I bet will be priced at low $200s.

Alder Lake in a nutshell

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:52:

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:03:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

Their Alder Lake review shows a difference of 5% or less average FPS on every game but Far Cry 5, where it's nearer to 10%... and that's at 1080p. Have you seen the prices on DDR5?

First generation modules, early mobo BIOS versions, mem settings probably not yet optimized by testers, and DDR5 is consistently beating DDR4 beyond the margin of error. That's better than DDR4's debut, and DDR5 will only get better moving forward.

As for price... we're talking about the launch of the fastest hardware on the market, so I give that a pass, for now!

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:03:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

Their Alder Lake review shows a difference of 5% or less average FPS on every game but Far Cry 5, where it's nearer to 10%... and that's at 1080p. Have you seen the prices on DDR5?

Figures, I finally get around to building an i9-9900k rig and six months later they release the 12900k.

Honestly, going from an i5-9400f to an i9-9900k wasn't the leap in performance I was expecting. I had it in my mind I'd be blown away at the difference annnd...no. Maybe that's because I'm still rocking a 2060/6gb when I should be using at least a 3080 but still, the gains so far have been 'meh' at most.

=-Rigs-=

theglaze wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 14:03:

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

Linus (LTT) is working on a ddr4-5 comparison video to supplement his “Damn, INtel!” review. It should be interesting.
,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,
Edit
Neweg is auto notify on all DDR5. yeah

This comment was edited on Nov 4, 2021, 14:22.

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:57:
It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general

Did you see the Anandtech comparison of DDR4 to DDR5? They've done the deepest dive into the new memory that I've found. When it comes to gaming, it looks significant to me, especially considering how tight performance is with AMD.

The 12600K looks pretty good for $300. Power usage is still on the high side (nearly doubling that of the 5600X under heavy load), but it's not the 300-350W insanity that the unleashed 12700K and 12900K will slurp, unless you overclock. Consumption is much more comparable when "only" gaming, but that's also where the performance difference is the least significant... It's disappointing to see that DDR5 makes so little difference in general (Watch Dogs: Legion apparently loves it, though), so that's just a massive waste of money right now.

RaZ0r! wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 13:09:
From HardwareUnboxed:

"I’ve found what looks to be an issue/bug with Windows 11 with AMD CPUs that might catch reviewers out. If you install W11 with a 5950X for example, and then change to the 5800X or really any other Ryzen CPU, the L3 latency increases..."
"and gaming performance drops quite significantly, sometimes by 20%. I’ve had this issue with a few CPU changes now. I first ran into it with a fresh W11 install on the Ryzen 5 3600, installed the 5950X and gaming performance was well down on where it should be..."
"Basically, it seems like you have to fresh install Windows 11 for every CPU change. I’d like to know if anyone else is seeing this issue or can replicate it. Needless to say it’s making updating our data a nightmare."

Starts here:
https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1454778534929461249

I wonder if some of the reviews are skewed because of this?

Probably, which highlights the issue of basing reviews on a brand new OS. I've no doubt that was mandated by Intel, as it's supposed to be more effective at assigning tasks to the appropriate "big" or "little" cores and most reviews make specific mention of that without any real evaluation. Some outlets are still working on Windows 10 benchmarks, so the comparison there should shed more light on both sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhI9tLOg-6I

Lists 3K Total War as "did not launch"

Already other chirpings that the CPU doesn't run many other older games on W10, even modern games.

The Toms Hardware review lists issues, and then calls it a gaming CPU without actually testing real games. (Farcry 6 and H:ZD.. REALLY?)

I'm sticking with my 7nm AMD. When my 10 year old main rig sh!t the bed this year, I had to settle for a Ryzen 5 5600x because of how difficult and expensive it was to get anything newer/faster. I have no regrets at all as this cpu is incredibly efficient! And the best part is that I can easily plop in a Ryzen 9 5950x when they come down in price for a nice upgrade

From HardwareUnboxed:

"I’ve found what looks to be an issue/bug with Windows 11 with AMD CPUs that might catch reviewers out. If you install W11 with a 5950X for example, and then change to the 5800X or really any other Ryzen CPU, the L3 latency increases..."
"and gaming performance drops quite significantly, sometimes by 20%. I’ve had this issue with a few CPU changes now. I first ran into it with a fresh W11 install on the Ryzen 5 3600, installed the 5950X and gaming performance was well down on where it should be..."
"Basically, it seems like you have to fresh install Windows 11 for every CPU change. I’d like to know if anyone else is seeing this issue or can replicate it. Needless to say it’s making updating our data a nightmare."

Starts here:
https://twitter.com/HardwareUnboxed/status/1454778534929461249

I wonder if some of the reviews are skewed because of this?

i built a new ryzen machine at the end of last year.... but even then i still find myself at a point with absolutely zero desire to build or upgrade any further - which is a unique spot for me in my life

and honestly i do blame the gaming world in general - since i have no real "dream game" to look forward to or anything remotely as exciting on the horizon

now that my productivity needs are mostly taken care of, and the fact that graphics cards as a consumer technology seem to be going away (as they undergo some strange evolution into raw "money printers" - which, is obviously going to be prioritized)

Well done Intel. Zen 3 is dethroned until next gen at least. Although Intel power consumption is still much higher than AMD. Still love my 5800X / 3070 build though it’s been a great year with it, running Win11 without a hitch.

Will stay with AMD at least and until Zen4 debuts.

I will stick with AMD for now, the power requirements for the Intel chips are ridiculous. Anyone looked at DDR5 prices if you can find them?

Also looks like the anandtech link is pointing at an old review, I think it should be this one: Alder Lake

jacobvandy wrote on Nov 4, 2021, 12:34:
This article was not borked half an hour ago, lol, some edit went very wrong.

My bad, I added a couple of reviews to the list, and obviously updated it to the wrong story.

Apologies.

This article was not borked half an hour ago, lol, some edit went very wrong.