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20.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 12, 2021, 18:48
20.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2021, 18:48
Sep 12, 2021, 18:48
 
i never suggested we retire our entire navy, just that we can do just as much with less. we can exert just as much naval pressure on china with 8 battle groups instead of 12. to be clear 8 is still extraneous, but it would accommodate other emergencies popping up elsewhere.
19.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 12, 2021, 07:52
19.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2021, 07:52
Sep 12, 2021, 07:52
 
bigspender wrote on Sep 12, 2021, 06:12:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

First we need better enforcement.
The wealthiest 1% of Americans dodge $163 billion in taxes every year, Treasury says

And we need a lot more corporate taxes.
As a share of GDP, the US has the lowest corporate taxes of the G7 nations.

Exactly!

The real problem is that other countries who have malicious intent or are made up of citizens who are mostly bad actors or religious fantatics and so on, keep spending money on their forces. We live in a world were countries are annexed, or taken over by force as we've seen very recently. Why aren't the lefties ever mentioning the you know, the actual bad guys, yes they exist, even if you are nice to them... Oh I know why lefties talk BS against their own countries, because these are the only places that have freedom of speech.
Yes, I was also going to point out that reducing US defense spending means ceding vast swaths of the Earth to authoritarian regimes like China and Russia, but I'd opened a couple of cans of worms already. We don't live in 1910 any longer. Isolationism hasn't been possible for 100 years. The US mis-uses its military often, but even with those mistakes, having US be the top super power is far preferable to having China and Russia feel free to bully and annex their neighbors more than they already do. China is already trying to claim the entire South China Sea in violation of the UNCLOS treaty it signed a couple of decades ago. Imagine what would happen if the US retired all of its carriers.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski
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18.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 12, 2021, 06:56
18.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2021, 06:56
Sep 12, 2021, 06:56
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 21:10:
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 20:44:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

I'd argue that it is both and corporations/wealthy people buying the government. We spend a grotesquely obscene amount on military spending, we fail to tax appropriately, and we fail to prevent corporate bribes donations. Run elections for all public offices on public funds, including advertising.
You bring up another problem with US defense acquisitions: for political reasons production of any particular system is spread across multiple states, requiring all those parts to be relocated to a central location for assembly. This dramatically increases the cost. Take the F-35: it creates jobs in 45 different states. This is done intentionally to insulate a particular program from cancellation. No senator or rep wants to vote against job creation. Given how few defense contractors there are today due to mergers, it's time to create some regulation to counteract these practices.

This is exactly how the ESA operates when it comes to space flight in Europe, and why our rocket technologies are 30 years behind. Europe could land rockets like SpaceX since the 90s, but opted, and i kid you not, to not do it because it would make some factories (notably the ones in France.. funny how that works) pointless to keep as you don't have to produce engines non-stop when you don't throw all your technology into the oceans. So now we have Arianne 6 which is a failed design from the start and politicians who somehow convinced themselves Arianne 6 can compete with Space X (Hint: It can't)

So regulations.. .. if the US regulated this internally we would have to regulate it across the whole of Europe too.
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17.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 12, 2021, 06:12
17.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2021, 06:12
Sep 12, 2021, 06:12
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

First we need better enforcement.
The wealthiest 1% of Americans dodge $163 billion in taxes every year, Treasury says

And we need a lot more corporate taxes.
As a share of GDP, the US has the lowest corporate taxes of the G7 nations.

Exactly!

The real problem is that other countries who have malicious intent or are made up of citizens who are mostly bad actors or religious fantatics and so on, keep spending money on their forces. We live in a world were countries are annexed, or taken over by force as we've seen very recently. Why aren't the lefties ever mentioning the you know, the actual bad guys, yes they exist, even if you are nice to them... Oh I know why lefties talk BS against their own countries, because these are the only places that have freedom of speech.
_________________________________________________
"Money doesn't exist in the 24th century, the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." - Jean-Luc Picard
16.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 12, 2021, 06:07
16.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 12, 2021, 06:07
Sep 12, 2021, 06:07
 
Why potato milk, a newcomer to plant-based dairy, may be the most sustainable option. I didn't even know spuds had breasts! Thanks Max.

Cows don't either, they have udders. Which makes it all the more weird that people drink dairy.
_________________________________________________
"Money doesn't exist in the 24th century, the acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of humanity." - Jean-Luc Picard
15.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 22:59
NKD
15.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 22:59
Sep 11, 2021, 22:59
NKD
 
1badmf wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 20:53:
biden is trying to increase funding for the IRS to audit the wealthy, and shocker, the repubs are against it cuz they 'don't trust the IRS'.

They love small government. Government just small enough to fit inside a woman's uterus, at any rate.
Burrito of Peace wrote:
tell them their DMCA doesn't mean shit and to go eat a bowl of dicks.
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14.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 21:10
14.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 21:10
Sep 11, 2021, 21:10
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 20:44:
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

I'd argue that it is both and corporations/wealthy people buying the government. We spend a grotesquely obscene amount on military spending, we fail to tax appropriately, and we fail to prevent corporate bribes donations. Run elections for all public offices on public funds, including advertising.
You bring up another problem with US defense acquisitions: for political reasons production of any particular system is spread across multiple states, requiring all those parts to be relocated to a central location for assembly. This dramatically increases the cost. Take the F-35: it creates jobs in 45 different states. This is done intentionally to insulate a particular program from cancellation. No senator or rep wants to vote against job creation. Given how few defense contractors there are today due to mergers, it's time to create some regulation to counteract these practices.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski
Avatar 22024
13.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 20:53
13.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 20:53
Sep 11, 2021, 20:53
 
biden is trying to increase funding for the IRS to audit the wealthy, and shocker, the repubs are against it cuz they 'don't trust the IRS'.
12.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 20:44
12.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 20:44
Sep 11, 2021, 20:44
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

I'd argue that it is both and corporations/wealthy people buying the government. We spend a grotesquely obscene amount on military spending, we fail to tax appropriately, and we fail to prevent corporate bribes donations. Run elections for all public offices on public funds, including advertising.
"Lock the doors. Kill the light. No one's coming...home tonight. It's getting colder."

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net .
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11.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 19:43
Rigs
 
11.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 19:43
Sep 11, 2021, 19:43
 Rigs
 
FloodAnxiety wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 16:31:
Science says studies based on a dataset of 33 people is not statistically significant, and thus is not actually science. I'd be in favor not never seeing a fake science article on yahoo linked here again. Just my two cents.

'not never'...so you would be in favor? Or was that sarcastic? Or am I reading too much into it? Wait, don't answer that...

I'm sure I've mentioned here before how had fate been slightly different, I'd have been right there, right across the ave from the north Tower on 9/11. That thought enters my mind at the damndest times too. Of course, when the anniversary rolls around, I dwell on it maybe a bit too much. I run in my head the scenario of whether me being there would've meant I'd have volunteered to go into the Tower to help evac or assist wounded. Knowing me as I do (more or less), I might have been as bold enough to actually go up the stairs with the firefighters to the affected floors. Then I think, nah, don't be stupid, the firefighters and police would've sent all civvies out. Then I consider the collapse, where I would have been, what would I have done? If I was somewhere around the base of the north Tower, I may have had time to get away to an adjoining building or run a block or two away. I know the FOB for the firefighters was obliterated in the collapse and everyone killed. So I'm not sure how feasible it would have been to get away if you were standing next to either tower. Also: Not to mention the fact of people constantly falling from above the entire time...

Not that any of that matters now. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I was living in the Passaic/East Rutherford area of NJ from Jan of 2000 to May of 2001. I went to a very promising job interview in April of 2001 that was on the 36th floor of a building across from (I'm pretty sure was) the north Tower. Had I actually gotten that job, I would have been there on 9/11. Before going inside the building to my interview, I stood at the base of the Tower and looked up and was just in...AWE...of the size of it! You couldn't see the top, it looked like the building just kept going up forever! Truly a sight I will >never< forget.

=-Rigs-=

This comment was edited on Sep 11, 2021, 20:09.
Avatar 14292
10.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 16:31
10.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 16:31
Sep 11, 2021, 16:31
 
Science says studies based on a dataset of 33 people is not statistically significant, and thus is not actually science. I'd be in favor not seeing a fake science article on yahoo linked here again. Just my two cents.

EDIT: removed double negative mistake

This comment was edited on Oct 23, 2021, 15:40.
9.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 16:03
9.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 16:03
Sep 11, 2021, 16:03
 
Cutter wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 15:50:
Anyone else catch Kate on Netflix yet? I did last night and thought it was quite good. Tight, good pacing, good action sequences. MEW was way better than I thought she'd be. Right on par with Atomic Blonde and Le Femme Nikita for female lead action flicks.

Kate's on my to-watch list. Thanks for the review.
- It doesn't matter that you don't believe in climate change. What matters is that your insurance company does.
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8.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 15:50
8.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 15:50
Sep 11, 2021, 15:50
 
Anyone else catch Kate on Netflix yet? I did last night and thought it was quite good. Tight, good pacing, good action sequences. MEW was way better than I thought she'd be. Right on par with Atomic Blonde and Le Femme Nikita for female lead action flicks.
"You’re still learning English? That’s the language you speak. How dumb are you?" - Rick Sanchez
Avatar 25394
7.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 15:39
7.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 15:39
Sep 11, 2021, 15:39
 
jdreyer wrote on Sep 11, 2021, 14:03:
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

No, the problem is you really waste way too much on your military. Close to a trillion bucks a year now? More than the next dozen countries spending combined or something to that effect? You could cut your military waste by 75% and still be outspending the rest of the planet.

"It will be a great day when our schools have all the money they need, and our air force has to have a bake-sale to buy a bomber." - Robert Fulghum
"You’re still learning English? That’s the language you speak. How dumb are you?" - Rick Sanchez
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6.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 14:50
6.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 14:50
Sep 11, 2021, 14:50
 
“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” A. Einstein

And stil they will cost a good chunk of the GDP.

Avatar 58799
5.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 14:18
5.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 14:18
Sep 11, 2021, 14:18
 
“You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.” A. Einstein
- I refer to it as BC, Before Corona, and AD, After Disaster. -
Avatar 58135
4.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 14:03
4.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 14:03
Sep 11, 2021, 14:03
 
The problem isn't that we spend too much on defense. Currently we spend less than half of what we did as a % of GDP than we did during the Cold War. Rather, the problem is taxation.

First we need better enforcement.
The wealthiest 1% of Americans dodge $163 billion in taxes every year, Treasury says

And we need a lot more corporate taxes.
As a share of GDP, the US has the lowest corporate taxes of the G7 nations.
“The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”
― Charles Bukowski
Avatar 22024
3.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 12:34
3.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 12:34
Sep 11, 2021, 12:34
 
Don't you know? The barbarians are at the gates! We need those forces!
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
2.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 12:32
2.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 12:32
Sep 11, 2021, 12:32
 
the US military really is ridiculously overfunded, esp. the navy. our navy would probably defeat every other navy in the world even if they joined forces against us, and easily too. hell i think our submarine fleet by itself could do that. not to mention, the second largest air force in the world, after the US air force, is the US navy! yeah they can afford to spare a few bucks for social programs. though i'd rather they cut the submarine fleet than the carriers.
1.
 
Re: Out of the Blue
Sep 11, 2021, 11:31
1.
Re: Out of the Blue Sep 11, 2021, 11:31
Sep 11, 2021, 11:31
 
You could report that article as "How X sold out to China" with X being anything...because it would still be true.

//---\\

I'm down for reforestation. Maybe we could take a fraction of the close to $40b spent on the the Ford Class carrier program and replant much of the forests lost in wildfires within the US. Maybe we can create a department that deals with forestry and let them handle it with the appropriate funds and manpower. Hmmm...maybe the American Forestry Service or something like that?

//---\\

You know, out of all the fast food companies in the world, Taco Bell would not be who I thought would take the lead in recycling, or at least trying to, their single use products.
"Lock the doors. Kill the light. No one's coming...home tonight. It's getting colder."

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net .
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20 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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