Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 03:08:
What is it with game development studios and this shit? Is it really as Occam's Razor would suggest? Game developers are nerds, nerds are insecure and not confident with the ladies, nerds get power within a company, insecurity and power leads to a harassing misogynistic character trait?

I work in engineering which has a ton of nerds who cannot talk to women.

It also has creepiest fucking dudes i've ever seen. Reddit has an entire subreddit called "Niceguys" which basically points towards this problem of these white knights thinking they're gods gift but really just a bunch of self-absorbed assholes who are borderline rapists.

Beamer wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 14:00:

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 13:36:

Beamer wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 12:12:

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 11:14:
It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

Yes, reserve your anger for those saying you shouldn't harass women, not for those that harassed women. Sensible.

I am not angry, and I made no reference to the specifics of this case.

You are guessing at my emotional state and what I think about women and victims. But what I find most fascinating is your idea that anger should be reserved and applied to other people. Makes sense.

If I cannot critique those that seek changes to the system, and the processes and tools they use to achieve change, then this 'new' system is a lot like the last.

Reread your post. It comes across as a rant against people angry that they've been supporting a company doing these things.

You should seek to, y'know, change the system and stop sexual harassment, not change the system and stop people trying to change the system and stop sexual harassment.

And if you're angry at how the system is being changed, or "critiquing," again, why not spend more of your words (and you used a decent amount) on how much worse the system that needs to be changed is than the methods of seeking it, or lament that this has happened for decades and nothing worked to change it prior to this.

It's like how people whined about how MLK sought change, only, decades later, for that same type of people to be wishing we had that method. Ultimately, just seems some people dislike change.

Again, I am not angry. What I typed is not a wild, emotional outburst or rant.

I wasn't alive at the time, or studied Americana enough, to know what all the "whining" was about with MLK. Is he the grandfather to cancel culture? Was he tolerant of those that critiqued his beliefs?

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 13:36:

Beamer wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 12:12:

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 11:14:
It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

Yes, reserve your anger for those saying you shouldn't harass women, not for those that harassed women. Sensible.

I am not angry, and I made no reference to the specifics of this case.

You are guessing at my emotional state and what I think about women and victims. But what I find most fascinating is your idea that anger should be reserved and applied to other people. Makes sense.

If I cannot critique those that seek changes to the system, and the processes and tools they use to achieve change, then this 'new' system is a lot like the last.

Reread your post. It comes across as a rant against people angry that they've been supporting a company doing these things.

You should seek to, y'know, change the system and stop sexual harassment, not change the system and stop people trying to change the system and stop sexual harassment.

And if you're angry at how the system is being changed, or "critiquing," again, why not spend more of your words (and you used a decent amount) on how much worse the system that needs to be changed is than the methods of seeking it, or lament that this has happened for decades and nothing worked to change it prior to this.

It's like how people whined about how MLK sought change, only, decades later, for that same type of people to be wishing we had that method. Ultimately, just seems some people dislike change.

Beamer wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 12:12:

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 11:14:
It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

Yes, reserve your anger for those saying you shouldn't harass women, not for those that harassed women. Sensible.

I am not angry, and I made no reference to the specifics of this case.

You are guessing at my emotional state and what I think about women and victims. But what I find most fascinating is your idea that anger should be reserved and applied to other people. Makes sense.

If I cannot critique those that seek changes to the system, and the processes and tools they use to achieve change, then this 'new' system is a lot like the last.

These types of forum threads make it pretty easy to tell who has done fucked up things to other people with no repercussions.

"Come on guys, we've all done it. Right guys?"

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

Yes, reserve your anger for those saying you shouldn't harass women, not for those that harassed women. Sensible.

The "Cosby" suite is just another example of how not to behave. It's creepy and in extremely poor taste, even if it was most likely done with irony. Do I think it should end someone's career? No. But it's out there now, and that is a very hard stigma to shed oneself of. I don't know if anyone's recent firing had anything to do with that, but I wouldn't be surprised.

theglaze wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 11:14:

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

When the online horde is enraged about something unacceptable, and because of said rage people will be held accountable... That's not cancel culture. If you think any consequence of bad behavior that's not executed by law but by "social justice" is automatically "cancel culture", you've lost the plot. And in this way you let the actual cancel culture thrive in this confusion. Just like the actual racists can thrive because everyone is fucking racist these days.

I didn't realize that Overwatch's Mcree was named after one of the developers.

Just get Diablo 2 Remastered out of the door and then Activision can go on butchering Blizzard to turn it into a profitable and DLC oriented mobile game studio. But wait for it until I got D2R.

At this point, Blizzard is going to have to rename their company to get away from the negativity, lol. Why not go with, TSUNAMI?!

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

It is 100% cancel culture. "Evidence" from social media is used by an online horde to rally hate towards other people, criticizing assumed behavior as the horde connects dots from their smart phones or computer chair, about events they never attended and people they never met. This echo chamber builds into a feverish pitch like a witch hunt. Guilt by association is acceptable by the horde, malevolence is assumed, and no point on the timeline of history is out-of-bounds for the hordes judgement. Any gaps in rationality by the prosecution, are filled in with emotional outrage.

Some of the accused are likely assholes, who probably did some of these claimed things. But I'm just as disgusted by the group behavior of the online horde, some of them are assholes too, but too righteous to notice.

i knew a guy who sued his lady boss over sexual harrasment, got a settlement out of court... and then a few years later went back to work at the same place

its pretty complicated out there

Taskeen wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 09:09:
...I just kind of assumed most companies today have robust employee training and mitigation for sexual harassment.

Only insofar as it protects the corporation from legal liability. Outside of that, they couldn't give a fuck less.

Can we pay a DLC to beat the crap out of this guys in the streets if by any accident we cross path?
I might even pay a subscription if that is an option.

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 09:59:

eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 08:55:

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

Being named as one of the developers in the cosby suite 100% will follow em to the grave. And rightfully so imo because "I didn't know what I was doing" never works and never should work as an excuse.

And the chats released as part of the lawsuit paint a very different picture.

In principle I definitely agree with you. But follow them to the grave to what extend though? Never finding a job again or something else? The culture they made was terrible but no actual rape took place in that suite afaik. In the end it were a bunch of idiots who spurred eachothers misogystic behavior on, frat-boy style, and just maybe couldn't even look at themselves in the mirror when they were alone. Have a party with a bunch of people and you can win money all day betting you'll hear 10 fucked up stories about someone who knows someone who did something stupid. Never forget about the actual rapists, murderers and other criminals out there; never forget to relativize.

Simply enough of a karma follow up that any future job opportunity can see what kind of people they are before hiring them. Nothing beyond that and nothing less. I worked plenty in IT and never fratboyed it up in a boardroom with a cosby picture at the wall. By the way, we had a strict "no alcohol" policy at work. That this is not a thing at Blizzard does not surprise me.

eRe4s3r wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 08:55:

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

Being named as one of the developers in the cosby suite 100% will follow em to the grave. And rightfully so imo because "I didn't know what I was doing" never works and never should work as an excuse.

And the chats released as part of the lawsuit paint a very different picture.

In principle I definitely agree with you. But follow them to the grave to what extend though? Never finding a job again or something else? The culture they made was terrible but no actual rape took place in that suite afaik. In the end it were a bunch of idiots who spurred eachothers misogystic behavior on, frat-boy style, and just maybe couldn't even look at themselves in the mirror when they were alone. Have a party with a bunch of people and you can win money all day betting you'll hear 10 fucked up stories about someone who knows someone who did something stupid. Never forget about the actual rapists, murderers and other criminals out there; never forget to relativize.

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 03:08:
What is it with game development studios and this shit?

I would like to know to. The company I work at takes sexual harassment very seriously, it is also woman owned. Perhaps I'm insulated since I've worked there forever, but I just kind of assumed most companies today have robust employee training and mitigation for sexual harassment.

Quinn wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 07:10:

bigspender wrote on Aug 12, 2021, 04:38:
That is some messed up stuff, I definitely wouldn't want to work people like this. I never understand misogyny. Everyone has a mother at the very least, most people have a sister or daughter, so how can anyone hold these views.

I'm really happy to see the company taking action to hold these individuals to account. Being a hater of cancel culture however, I hope that these people are able to learn and see the errors of their ways. Even Neo-Nazi's can reform, and we embrace them, instead of letting the Twitter mob force them into hiding.

Losing your job for something like this and finding it hard to get a new job because of this, doesn't fall under the category of cancel culture but accountability, I think. If this was about some pronoun thing or held non-conformist belief that didn't invoke the wrath of the SJW's mere years ago... that'd fall under the category of cancel culture. Rape culture has been unacceptable since as long as I can remember.

But yeah, "forgive and forget" should take place at some point. When? I guess the individual decides.

Being named as one of the developers in the cosby suite 100% will follow em to the grave. And rightfully so imo because "I didn't know what I was doing" never works and never should work as an excuse.

And the chats released as part of the lawsuit paint a very different picture.

Lilith still loves you