More Unreal v. Nreal

A post on The Recorder (may require registration or subscription) reports that Epic Games was hit with a Trademark suit in California Northern District Court yesterday filed by Nreal Technology Ltd., Nreal Inc. and parent company Shenzhen Tairuo Technology Co. They seem to be lawyers, which we are certainly not, but it appears this is actually a "complaint for declaratory judgment" rather than a suit. The issue here is not cash-cow Fortnite, but rather Unreal. That's because this is a response to a suit filed by Epic earlier this year over the similarity between the Nreal brand and Epic’s Unreal. The new filing complains about the venue and seeks declaratory relief:
Following Epic’s filing of the opposition, Epic and Plaintiffs attempted to resolve this dispute. However, on May 14, 2021, without any prior warning or notice, Epic filed a complaint against Tairuo in the Eastern District of North Carolina, where Tairuo has no business presence, alleging that Tairuo’s use of the Nreal Mark in connection with the Nreal Light glasses would cause confusion with Epic’s UNREAL Marks, infringe Epic’s marks, and violate North Carolina’s Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices, and asking that Tairuo’s trademark application be refused. Upon information and belief, Epic filed its complaint in North Carolina—its “hometown venue” where it is headquartered—in order to gain an unfair advantage based on its significant presence in that state in litigation against a foreign Chinese company. Due to its lack of contacts with the forum, Tairuo contests personal jurisdiction in North Carolina.

Accordingly, this is a civil action for declaratory relief to vindicate the rights of Plaintiffs to register and use the Nreal Mark. Plaintiffs seek through this lawsuit declarations that use of the Nreal Mark does not create a likelihood of confusion, or otherwise unlawfully violate Epic’s rights under the Lanham Act or state law.
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16.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 22:31
16.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 22:31
Jul 21, 2021, 22:31
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 12:29:
Bhruic wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:30:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Yeah, no, you're wrong. Microsoft has a trademark on the word "Windows" itself, separate from "Microsoft". They also have trademarks on plenty of other "common words", such as "Silk", "Natural", and "Fluid". You can download a pdf that lists all of Microsoft's trademarks here: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RWArzw

No, yeah, you're wrong. You're also confusing ownership of words with word-logos.

https://secureyourtrademark.com/can-you-trademark/common-words-phrases/

Trademarks are not about owning a word or phrase. It is about providing companies with distinctiveness and preventing consumer confusion. If another company producing computers or computer programs called itself Apple Hardware or Apple Electronics, then Apple Inc. could sue them for trademark infringement. But if Honda wanted to create a car called the Honda Apple, then Apple Inc. would have a very hard time getting them to stop. There is little to no chance that consumers would confuse Honda's car with Apple's computer products.

Like back in the beginning of 2000 when MS sued Lindows and lost. So they simply ended up paying them 2 million bucks to dump the name.

I really have no idea what you think you are demonstrating with your quote, but who was talking about "owning" a word? We were talking about trademarks. Of course a trademark doesn't allow you to own a word - but that doesn't mean you still don't have it trademarked. You claimed Microsoft doesn't have a trademark on the word "Windows". They do. You were just flat out wrong. Stop trying to move the goalposts and just accept it.
15.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 15:51
15.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 15:51
Jul 21, 2021, 15:51
 
roguebanshee wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 05:09:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:11:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Right I know but it seems especially unclear here with Nreal and it seems to be the implication. I get Unreal is actually Unreal Engine but we've also seen where rights holders have tried to carve out exceptions for themselves.
Unreal is also a game franchise, even if Epic isn't actively making new games in it.

I actually had forgotten about Unreal and Unreal II.
I still don't think C/TM'ing common nouns should be allowed as a general principle.
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." ― Arthur C. Clarke
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14.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 15:01
14.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 15:01
Jul 21, 2021, 15:01
 
Bhruic wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:30:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Yeah, no, you're wrong. Microsoft has a trademark on the word "Windows" itself, separate from "Microsoft". They also have trademarks on plenty of other "common words", such as "Silk", "Natural", and "Fluid". You can download a pdf that lists all of Microsoft's trademarks here: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RWArzw
Which tells you how fucked up trademark law is...
“Extinction is the rule. Survival is the exception.” -- Carl Sagan
13.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 14:53
13.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 14:53
Jul 21, 2021, 14:53
 
Their problems, we got games to play.
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12.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 12:29
12.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 12:29
Jul 21, 2021, 12:29
 
Bhruic wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:30:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Yeah, no, you're wrong. Microsoft has a trademark on the word "Windows" itself, separate from "Microsoft". They also have trademarks on plenty of other "common words", such as "Silk", "Natural", and "Fluid". You can download a pdf that lists all of Microsoft's trademarks here: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RWArzw

No, yeah, you're wrong. You're also confusing ownership of words with word-logos.

https://secureyourtrademark.com/can-you-trademark/common-words-phrases/

Trademarks are not about owning a word or phrase. It is about providing companies with distinctiveness and preventing consumer confusion. If another company producing computers or computer programs called itself Apple Hardware or Apple Electronics, then Apple Inc. could sue them for trademark infringement. But if Honda wanted to create a car called the Honda Apple, then Apple Inc. would have a very hard time getting them to stop. There is little to no chance that consumers would confuse Honda's car with Apple's computer products.

Like back in the beginning of 2000 when MS sued Lindows and lost. So they simply ended up paying them 2 million bucks to dump the name.

"When you're a Jet you're the swinginest thing. Little boy, you're a man, little man, you're a king!"
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11.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 09:15
Kxmode
 
11.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 09:15
Jul 21, 2021, 09:15
 Kxmode
 
Lawyer stuff. I'm out.

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"What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it is almost impossible to eradicate."
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10.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 06:33
10.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 06:33
Jul 21, 2021, 06:33
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:13:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You mean it seems, Unreal

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9.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 05:09
9.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 05:09
Jul 21, 2021, 05:09
 
Greentiger wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:11:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Right I know but it seems especially unclear here with Nreal and it seems to be the implication. I get Unreal is actually Unreal Engine but we've also seen where rights holders have tried to carve out exceptions for themselves.
Unreal is also a game franchise, even if Epic isn't actively making new games in it.
8.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 04:03
8.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 04:03
Jul 21, 2021, 04:03
 
Bhruic wrote on Jul 21, 2021, 03:30:
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Yeah, no, you're wrong. Microsoft has a trademark on the word "Windows" itself, separate from "Microsoft". They also have trademarks on plenty of other "common words", such as "Silk", "Natural", and "Fluid". You can download a pdf that lists all of Microsoft's trademarks here: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RWArzw

I did not realize all of those examples. Thanks!
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." ― Arthur C. Clarke
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7.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 03:30
7.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 03:30
Jul 21, 2021, 03:30
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Yeah, no, you're wrong. Microsoft has a trademark on the word "Windows" itself, separate from "Microsoft". They also have trademarks on plenty of other "common words", such as "Silk", "Natural", and "Fluid". You can download a pdf that lists all of Microsoft's trademarks here: https://query.prod.cms.rt.microsoft.com/cms/api/am/binary/RWArzw
6.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
6.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
 
Cutter wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 22:14:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

Right I know but it seems especially unclear here with Nreal and it seems to be the implication. I get Unreal is actually Unreal Engine but we've also seen where rights holders have tried to carve out exceptions for themselves.
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." ― Arthur C. Clarke
Avatar 58887
5.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
Jivaro
 
5.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
Jul 21, 2021, 03:11
 Jivaro
 
The request seems fair enough.
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4.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 20, 2021, 22:14
4.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 20, 2021, 22:14
Jul 20, 2021, 22:14
 
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You can't trademark common words. I don't know what the actual TM is for Epic's Unreal engine but it's not "unreal" alone. MS' windows is a perfect example. The TM is for "Microsoft Windows" not "windows" per se. Otherwise the dictionary would have been TM'd by now and everyone would be suing everyone else.

"When you're a Jet you're the swinginest thing. Little boy, you're a man, little man, you're a king!"
Avatar 25394
3.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 20, 2021, 21:13
3.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 20, 2021, 21:13
Jul 20, 2021, 21:13
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:13:
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You mean it seems, Unreal

The law-yahs have been dispatched, sir!
2.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 20, 2021, 20:13
2.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 20, 2021, 20:13
Jul 20, 2021, 20:13
 
Greentiger wrote on Jul 20, 2021, 20:09:
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?

You mean it seems, Unreal
Avatar 54727
1.
 
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal
Jul 20, 2021, 20:09
1.
Re: More Unreal v. Nreal Jul 20, 2021, 20:09
Jul 20, 2021, 20:09
 
Businesses shouldn't be able to trademark or copyright singular, common nouns IMO. "Unreal Engine", "Unreal LTD", sure, but otherwise it just seems too ... generic?
"Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying." ― Arthur C. Clarke
Avatar 58887
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